Kelly the Dog Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 PW's agent did counter the summer offer shortly after receiving at which that point TD shut down discussions due to their distance apart.......again, incorrect..........PW's agent did give the bills the chance to match, despite the fact he hadn't heard a word from TD since early summer....... incorrect.......he countered, and never heard a response to his counter.......TD decided to not even attempt to work out a deal after that initial "take it or leave it" offer......... your facts are wrong....... 380676[/snapback] Where does that come from? According to this, Wright contacted the Bills after he made the deal. It says the Bills offered PW a contract last summer but Wright didnt like it and it was 2 million less in a bonus than the Vikes offered. I don't remember a counter offer from Wright. I remember TD saying they they didnt like our offer and didnt negotiate. Wright said it was obvious "they werent going to be a player". That, to me, was agent talk, saying we didnt like their offer. It says nothing of them making a counter offer, although I am sure they said something unofficial like we want 40 million dollars, come up with a better offer. That is not negotiating. http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/p...370/1007/SPORTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 TD made his best offer, PW and his agent didn't like it, so negotiations stopped and PW went elsewhere for more money. That's what it boiled down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Who would you rather believe...The GM of your beloved Team, who hasthe team in his mind or an agent whose only prerogative is to get a big contract for his client ? Go Figure. 380437[/snapback] Oh, man, I agree with you. I am firmly behind TD. I was just making the point that, in a number of instances, over he past few years, there seems to have been a player/agent saying one thing, while TD is saying another. I am sure they all embellish things a bit, but TD used a similar tact in Pittsburgh too. He just seems to have a tendancy to kind of take digs at players after they are gone. I know that in this instance, PW is taking a dig at him, but I just wish TD was above that a little more. All I am saying! The players are supposed to be passionate, the GM, hopefully, can seperate the emotion from the situation... I have not liked every one of TD's moves, but I like the fact that he is decisive, and has the larger team concept always firmly in sight. I just fear that somewhere down the road, his sort of cavalier attitude toward some of the players is going to hurt him/us somewhere. The Eric Moulds situation is one of those instances where I can see this happening....of course, winning tends to take care of these things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Oh, man, I agree with you. I am firmly behind TD. I was just making the point that, in a number of instances, over he past few years, there seems to have been a player/agent saying one thing, while TD is saying another. I am sure they all embellish things a bit, but TD used a similar tact in Pittsburgh too. He just seems to have a tendancy to kind of take digs at players after they are gone. I know that in this instance, PW is taking a dig at him, but I just wish TD was above that a little more. All I am saying! The players are supposed to be passionate, the GM, hopefully, can seperate the emotion from the situation... A GM should be passionate as well. He's around these guys quite a bit and gets to know them pretty well. At some point you can't help but takes things personally and TD's job is to let people know that if a player leaves, it wasn't because he did nothing to prevent them from leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Oh, man, I agree with you. I am firmly behind TD. I was just making the point that, in a number of instances, over he past few years, there seems to have been a player/agent saying one thing, while TD is saying another. I am sure they all embellish things a bit, but TD used a similar tact in Pittsburgh too. He just seems to have a tendancy to kind of take digs at players after they are gone. I know that in this instance, PW is taking a dig at him, but I just wish TD was above that a little more. All I am saying! The players are supposed to be passionate, the GM, hopefully, can seperate the emotion from the situation... I have not liked every one of TD's moves, but I like the fact that he is decisive, and has the larger team concept always firmly in sight. I just fear that somewhere down the road, his sort of cavalier attitude toward some of the players is going to hurt him/us somewhere. The Eric Moulds situation is one of those instances where I can see this happening....of course, winning tends to take care of these things.... 380768[/snapback] Wasnt TD the one who gave Moulds a $40 million deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 one way to get it lower is to do a "simple restructuring.........this involves converting salary into signing bonus (reason being signing bonus can be amortized over the life of the deal whereas salary counts on the current year's cap)........the player gets paid the same, but cap dollars get pushed from the current year into future years.........the problem with this strategy is that those unamortized bonus dollars never go away until they hit the cap, whether the player is on the roster or not......... another option is to do an "extension".........in this case the salary is again reduced, but to make up for that a new signing bonus is issued........this is added to the old "unamortized" signing bonus and is then amortized over the new life of the deal.........this is what the saints did with joe horn.......this makes more sense cap wise because you can set up 2 or 3 manageable years where you don't have to deal with the issue every season, but the catch is you are giving more cash to them so you want to make sure they will be around and not ready to take a slide in performance because the cap hit is nasty to dump them......... because mould's cap number is 10 and his salary is 6 he has 4M in unamortized bonus for the '06 season.........he is also signed through '07, so double that to 8M.........THAT IS 8M THAT HAS TO HIT THE CAP AT SOME POINT........not a great situation to be in, but one that was created by extending his deal last year by only 1 year instead of a few.........to get it lower they could drop his salary and add more signing bonus to be amortized (not a great option because at that point there is only one year left on the contract -- you are just moving dollars into the 2007, creating a huge cap hit)........the other option is to drop his salary to the 1.5M level again, give him the difference in signing bonus again, but EXTEND THE DEAL BY A FEW SEASONS.......at that point the signing bonus can then be amortized further.........but it's a bad situation overall because eventually those signing bonus dollars are going to have to hit the cap......... this is all the result of the bills backloading the deal and taking VERY SMALL CAP HITS the first few seasons of it.........for example, the bills only gave him 500K in salary in '01 and 1.55 in '02........those numbers should have been higher which would have helped balance out the backend of the contract........i think the bills will approach him again with another 1 year extension next off-season, but this just means that unamortized bonus number keeps growing and growing year after year........ 380472[/snapback] By giving Moulds only a 1 year extension, I think it is pretty clear that his days in Buffalo are numbered. If TD had plans for him past 2005, that extension would have been for at least 2 years. Unless Moulds rediscovers his explosiveness or takes a huge salary cut, he will be playing elsewhere in 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Wasnt TD the one who gave Moulds a $40 million deal? 380786[/snapback] with regard to moulds, if he plays well and retains his skills my guess is that he'll be back. if he drops another quarter to a half yard in his ypc average, as he's done for six years straight, then i suspect he'll be gone if he doesn't want to take a pay cut. and that'll be that. he's made a lot of money from the bills, and donohoe has done right by him. if his skills diminish, i would be perfectly ok with donohoe letting him go seek his fortunes elsewhere. don't get me wrong -- i really like him. it's just that no receiver averaging 10.7-10.8 ypc deserves anything approaching 6 mill/year, no matter how good he is at beating the bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 with regard to moulds, if he plays well and retains his skills my guess is that he'll be back. if he drops another quarter to a half yard in his ypc average, as he's done for six years straight, then i suspect he'll be gone if he doesn't want to take a pay cut. and that'll be that. he's made a lot of money from the bills, and donohoe has done right by him. if his skills diminish, i would be perfectly ok with donohoe letting him go seek his fortunes elsewhere. don't get me wrong -- i really like him. it's just that no receiver averaging 10.7-10.8 ypc deserves anything approaching 6 mill/year, no matter how good he is at beating the bump. 380873[/snapback] I agree. But I expect him to have a pretty good year, unless Losman tanks, which is a possibility. You're using that dropping YPC stat way too much, however, and it's pretty disingenuous, IMO. He's had two great years. One of them was 2002. The other was around 1998. His YPC in 2002 went down from 2000 and 2001 and yet he was far better and far more effective in 2002 than he was in either of the two years previous. It is also a lot easier to have a lofty YPC when you're catching 65 balls a year versus 85 or 100. He is still an excellent receiver. if his skills diminish, sure, he will likely not make a lot of money from the Bills next year. But I expect him to. Just less than what his contract calls for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadian bill Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Any one remember Peter Warrick from College. Damn he was a good reciever. If he becomes available we should pick him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Wasnt TD the one who gave Moulds a $40 million deal? 380786[/snapback] Yes, but as you well know, nothing in the NFL is guaranteed for players, beyond the signing bonus. When TD decides the time is right to part way with Moulds (and I am predicting that will be before his current contract expires, and before Moulds feels ready to retire), there is very much the likelihood that Moulds will feel a little screwed, like PW is feeling now. Moulds is still productive, and it seems apparent that TD thought PW wasn't productive enought to warrent a market value raise. Every player comes to that crossroad at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinVA Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Any one remember Peter Warrick from College. Damn he was a good reciever. If he becomes available we should pick him up. 380921[/snapback] Uh, no we shouldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 of course, winning tends to take care of these things.... 380768[/snapback] Couldn't have said better.....Winners pushes all the problems, bickerings below the carpet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Any one remember Peter Warrick from College. Damn he was a good reciever. If he becomes available we should pick him up. 380921[/snapback] TD will hafta tell Sears and JC Penny to beef up security, especially when the jets and L. Coles come to town... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadian bill Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 "As a junior the 6-foot, 190-pound Warrick averaged 20.2 yards per catch and 102.7 yards receiving per game. He has a 37-inch vertical leap and displays the kind of quickness that has scouts using terms like "unstoppable ... acrobatic ... an Andre Rison with speed ... incredible ... the Number 1 guy in the whole draft at this point ... everybody's dream." "When Pete goes out there, it reminds me of when Deion [sanders] played for us," says Seminoles receivers coach Jeff Bowden. "You can feel the electricity in the crowd change. I compare Pete to Mark McGwire. He's not going to hit a home run every time, but the threat is always there." -- David Fleming Has a lot of potential and can be signed really cheap. Not as a replacement for anybody just as another receiver to compete if he becomes available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Any one remember Peter Warrick from College. Damn he was a good reciever. If he becomes available we should pick him up. 380921[/snapback] He has some yet-to-be resolved health issues. If he still has it, and is cut, there will be a bidding war. Deadly slot receiver, supurb after a catch, and a return ace. Fine attitude, and a good blocker. He won't be a cheap aquisition if his wheels are intact. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinVA Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 "As a junior the 6-foot, 190-pound Warrick averaged 20.2 yards per catch and 102.7 yards receiving per game. He has a 37-inch vertical leap and displays the kind of quickness that has scouts using terms like "unstoppable ... acrobatic ... an Andre Rison with speed ... incredible ... the Number 1 guy in the whole draft at this point ... everybody's dream." "When Pete goes out there, it reminds me of when Deion [sanders] played for us," says Seminoles receivers coach Jeff Bowden. "You can feel the electricity in the crowd change. I compare Pete to Mark McGwire. He's not going to hit a home run every time, but the threat is always there." -- David Fleming Has a lot of potential and can be signed really cheap. Not as a replacement for anybody just as another receiver to compete if he becomes available. 380961[/snapback] Dude he's been in the league for like five years already and you're going to bring up his college scouting report. Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadian bill Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Dude he's been in the league for like five years already and you're going to bring up his college scouting report. Give me a break. 380965[/snapback] He's been on the Bengals with a horrible QB throwing to him. The one year he had a somewhat decent QB (KITNA) he put up over 800 yards. I was just pointing out his potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Dude he's been in the league for like five years already and you're going to bring up his college scouting report. Give me a break. 380965[/snapback] You violated the Kinder/Gentler directive...against a newbie no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinVA Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 You violated the Kinder/Gentler directive...against a newbie no less. 380970[/snapback] I'm starting to think I'm getting reeled in by some old timers alter ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I'm starting to think I'm getting reeled in by some old timers alter ego. 380973[/snapback] Consider the benefits - when ye are abandoned by all, the old timer will (perhaps - depending on the passage of time and longevity) still be here to offer either good, useless, or inane advice in your Hour of Need. Strange as it may seem, we ancients keep a watchful and salutory eye on the new folk ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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