Bills don't "need" a WR, they need to use the ones they have better

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, FormerLV-BILLS said:

This is really unscientific and I'm really ready to take the heat for it.  No stats to back it up.  Just my eyeballs, and being at games watching.  But I know what would really make our team use our receivers more, and in the correct role.  IF WE ACTUALLY HAD ONE THAT WAS WORTH A CRAP.

 

Why is it so hard to see, or to admit, that our receviers blow?  It's not any of our faults.  Most of them, for one reason or another, always have, and always will kinda suck.  Shakir would be a beast next to a real #1.

 

This isn't thesis level complicated.  At least I feel better now.  

 

That's not the way they choose to operate. They lead the NFL in offense. Just because you don't like the way they operate, doesn't make them wrong.

[NewEra]

I haven’t read your post yet Turk and I’ll comment on it afterwards. I was saying something similar to this premise the other day.  
 

winning the Super Bowl is the only goal.  Can this team achieve that?  I believe it can as long as we stay healthy enough. But we have to use Palmer more and use Keon like we did last week (unless he improves).  More Palmer Kincaid and the RB in the pass game.  Sprinkling in Moore, Gabe and Samuel for timely plays downfield.  More play action.  More passing out of the 22 and 12 personnel will keep teams honest or they’ll get burned.  

 

Point being, we didn’t NEED another WR.  Another WR would’ve improved our offense.  No question.  I just don’t think that it was necessary.  We can win with what we have and long as we don’t commit stupid untimely penalties and don’t lose anymore key players to injury.  
 

 

[T.E.]

54 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

"Somewhat effective" is a far cry from the top 5 elite TE money he got. 8 of those 20 touchdowns over 4 years were in one season, and many of them were flukey.  So the other 3 years he averaged 4 per season, pretty average for a starting tight end. Knox has never been more than a solid starting TE, that was my point. He would still start at TE for several teams but he's not a touchdown machine, nor is he worth the top 5 TE money we paid him.  He also continues to make untimely drops and boneheaded plays. It is what it is, but acting like he's gonna take the top off this offense and score a bunch of touchdowns if we schemed for him is laughable. 

Trust me, I am not defending his contract. But we might as well make him earn it, right?

[mjt328]

It's probably a mix of everything.  Hard to pick out a couple All-22 plays from the game, and form an opinion based solely on that.

 

In this clip, you will notice that Kansas City's DT (looks like Chris Jones) gets some pretty quick pressure against O'Cyrus Torrence.  Right in the center of the pocket.  Josh Allen did have time after stepping around the missed block, but there is a good chance he lost track of the WR progressions while doing that.  The TE was wide open in front of him, so he just took it.  

 

My biggest problem is that when it's 3rd-Long, and Josh is scrambling around the pocket buying time... those are the big plays when a WR needs to get open.  It's not happening enough.

 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Which should terrify the NFL since they are the #1 offense already

Exactly, that it doesn’t appear to be a particularly high priority to have a better passing game is odd to say the least, as you alluded to, the team absolutely needs that passing game to keep defenses honest, as the saying goes, 

[FormerLV-BILLS]

34 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

That's not the way they choose to operate. They lead the NFL in offense. Just because you don't like the way they operate, doesn't make them wrong.

I'm sorry, but that's crap.  Also unscientific.  I realize that.  At the same time, who the hell else in the NFL thinks that running the ball in this era is better than having a strong passing attack.  And to make it look even dumber, lets minimize the skills of a 6'4", 240 pound, 29 year old MVP QB while we are at it.  This is the dumbest ish I've ever seen.  How about loading up your QB AND keep feeding Cook?  That'd be cool, no?

 

As bad as the defense has been, letting the team down in the playoffs, the offense too, which has been prolific has failed in crunch time.  They've had the ball with chances late in games and stalled.  Multiple times in big end of game situations. Period.  That's fact.  

 

Why'd they stall?  Because when you need sure fire talent to make plays in crucial situations, sooner or later, talent is needed.  And the Bills offense has failed.  

 

I don't give a crap if they steamroll their division, and all the crap that they run up their numbers against garbage in the regular season.  It's worthless.  That's a given with a QB as generational as Allen is.

 

Can they do it when it counts?  And the answer lately is a big fat NO.  Who are we counting on to make the big play, when stars are all over the field on both teams with a chance to go to the Superbowl?  Late in the 4th quarter.  4th and 6.  Need a play from someone other than Allen.

 

Coleman?  Samuel?  Kincaid?  Remember, Kincaid had his chance to be special at the end of the game last year, and failed.  First round pick, couldn't make the clutch slightly above average catch.  Fact.  Who else, Shavers?  Knox?  Is Cook going to run it for 7 yards on a 4th down and 6?  

 

Who's going to make the play?

 

It's as simple as that.  You can throw the offensive numbers crap out the door at that point, because they mean squat.  You need an Alpha.  Everybody eats crap is high school stuff.  Time to grow up and get some studs, even if they buck "culture" a bit.  

 

Have a pair Beane and McDermott and go for it one friggin time.  

 

This isn't difficult.  Our WRs suck, and it hurts our team big time.

Edited 2 hours ago by FormerLV-BILLS

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, FormerLV-BILLS said:

I'm sorry, but that's crap.  Also unscientific.  I realize that.

 

As bad as the defense has been, letting the team down in the playoffs, the offense too, which has been prolific has failed in crunch time.  They've had the ball with chances late in games and stalled.  Multiple times in big end of game situations. Period.  That's fact.  

 

Why'd they stall?  Because when you need sure fire talent to make plays in crucial situations, sooner or later, talent is needed.  And the Bills offense has failed.  

 

I don't give a crap if they steamroll their division, and all the crap that they run up their numbers against garbage in the regular season.  It's worthless.  That's a given with a QB as generational as Allen is.

 

Can they do it when it counts?  And the answer lately is a big fat NO.  Who are we counting on to make the big play, when stars are all over the field on both teams with a chance to go to the Superbowl?  Late in the 4th quarter.  4th and 6.  Need a play from someone other than Allen.

 

Coleman?  Samuel?  Kincaid?  Remember, Kincaid had his chance to be special at the end of the game last year, and failed.  First round pick, couldn't make the clutch slightly above average catch.  Fact.  Who else, Shavers?  Knox?  Is Cook going to run it for 7 yards on a 4th down and 6?  

 

Who's going to make the play?

 

It's as simple as that.  You can throw the offensive numbers crap out the door at that point, because they mean squat.  You need an Alpha.  Everybody eats crap is high school stuff.  Time to grow up and get some studs, even if they buck "culture" a bit.  

 

Have a pair Beane and McDermott and go for it one friggin time.  

 

This isn't difficult.  Our WRs suck, and it hurts our team big time.

 

They need their defense to not be 2 TDs worse against KC in the playoffs than they are in the regular season on average. That's what they need. 

[FormerLV-BILLS]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

They need their defense to not be 2 TDs worse against KC in the playoffs than they are in the regular season on average. That's what they need. 

They need to quit worrying about what the hell everyone else has, and is doing, and load up their strengths and tell people to come beat them.

 

My god, they have the best player in the league.  Screw everyone else and what they do.  Load him up.  Tell people to stop them.  And play to get turnovers on defense.  Pretty simple.

 

It's the EXACT thing KC witched to a few years back.  It seems like all they do is react to what everybody else is doing, and by the time they react, everyone else has moved on to something else.

 

Load your Big Boy QB up, and tell everyone to stop your ass.  That sounds like a better plan than signing 400 medicore defensive lineman over the last 5 years.

 

Most frustrating era of Bills football because of the absolute answer we have at QB right now.

[Buffalo Ballin]

At this point, when Beane didn't make any WR moves, yeah, Brady, McD, and Josh Allen better be doing that.

 

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

The is a point neither made nor accepted enough.  

 

McD has this almost kryptonite view of turnovers that he determined the only offense which can work is one where the franchise QB would rarely throw the ball downfield.  An offense with complete balance running and passing, the latter typically within 10 yards of the LOS.  

 

Josh's advanced passing metrics bear this out.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2025/passing_advanced.htm

 

Intended air yards on pass attempts: 21st

Intended air yards per attempt: 26th

Completed air yards: 19th

Completed air yards per completion: 20th

 

This is the offense McD wants and the one he believes should work no matter what defenses do against them.  That's coaching stubborn.  

I agree this is the offence McD wants. We will find out whether he is right on February 8th when we play the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I agree this is the offence McD wants. We will find out whether he is right on February 8th when we play the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. 

 

Darnold will implode in the playoffs. They will be out in the first round again.

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Darnold will implode in the playoffs. They will be out in the first round again.

Well I do agree that they would be even better with Josh under center.

[Big Turk]

21 minutes ago, FormerLV-BILLS said:

I'm sorry, but that's crap.  Also unscientific.  I realize that.  At the same time, who the hell else in the NFL thinks that running the ball in this era is better than having a strong passing attack.  And to make it look even dumber, lets minimize the skills of a 6'4", 240 pound, 29 year old MVP QB while we are at it.  This is the dumbest ish I've ever seen.  How about loading up your QB AND keep feeding Cook?  That'd be cool, no?

 

As bad as the defense has been, letting the team down in the playoffs, the offense too, which has been prolific has failed in crunch time.  They've had the ball with chances late in games and stalled.  Multiple times in big end of game situations. Period.  That's fact.  

 

Why'd they stall?  Because when you need sure fire talent to make plays in crucial situations, sooner or later, talent is needed.  And the Bills offense has failed.  

 

I don't give a crap if they steamroll their division, and all the crap that they run up their numbers against garbage in the regular season.  It's worthless.  That's a given with a QB as generational as Allen is.

 

Can they do it when it counts?  And the answer lately is a big fat NO.  Who are we counting on to make the big play, when stars are all over the field on both teams with a chance to go to the Superbowl?  Late in the 4th quarter.  4th and 6.  Need a play from someone other than Allen.

 

Coleman?  Samuel?  Kincaid?  Remember, Kincaid had his chance to be special at the end of the game last year, and failed.  First round pick, couldn't make the clutch slightly above average catch.  Fact.  Who else, Shavers?  Knox?  Is Cook going to run it for 7 yards on a 4th down and 6?  

 

Who's going to make the play?

 

It's as simple as that.  You can throw the offensive numbers crap out the door at that point, because they mean squat.  You need an Alpha.  Everybody eats crap is high school stuff.  Time to grow up and get some studs, even if they buck "culture" a bit.  

 

Have a pair Beane and McDermott and go for it one friggin time.  

 

This isn't difficult.  Our WRs suck, and it hurts our team big time.

 

This is the Josh Palmer I thought we were getting...I have no idea WTF Brady is doing with him. He essentially has neutered him.

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Big Turk

[Rockinon]

Josh was devastating defenses with those 15-30yd passes early in his career. He can absolutely hit those passes and get them to the target faster than most QBs in this league. Brady isn't scheming that into the game plan. OP has a point. There is no reason some of our speedier WRs shouldn't have better numbers. Maybe analytics is telling them that they are better of with the short throws, but with Josh Allen throwing the ball? I think maybe there can be some slight adjustment considering who our QB is.

[Jrb1979]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

This is the Josh Palmer I thought we were getting...I have no idea WTF Brady is doing with him. He essentially has neutered him.

 

 

 

IMO it's not Brady at all. This is the type of offense McDermott has wanted for years. The short passes keep turnovers low and eats clock. 

 

While the league may be heading that way, right now the top teams have high powered offenses that can score in bunches.  

 

Look at Indy, Tampa, Detroit, Seattle New England and the Rams.  

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

IMO it's not Brady at all. This is the type of offense McDermott has wanted for years. The short passes keep turnovers low and eats clock. 

 

While the league may be heading that way, right now the top teams have high powered offenses that can score in bunches.  

 

Look at Indy, Tampa, Detroit, Seattle New England and the Rams.  

 

You realize we lead the NFL in offense and are 3rd in scoring at 29+ points a game, as well as top 5 in virtually every other metric across the board, right?

 

We also lead the NFL in explosive plays, defined as a pass play of 20+ yards or a run play of 10+ yards with 44 and are the only team in the NFL to average more than 5 of those per game.

 

You seem to either be in the twilight zone where you aren't actually watching what's going on, or simply not paying attention to what is happening with other teams in comparison.

Edited 1 hour ago by Big Turk

[Jrb1979]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

You realize we lead the NFL in offense and are 3rd in scoring at 29+ points a game, as well as top 5 in virtually every other metric across the board, right?

Yes but watching them play compared to other teams there is a difference. 

While the Bills do score, they still struggle in the 2nd half most of the games this season. They do well on both scripted drives of each half and seem to stall quite often after that. 

[Rockinon]

I think the Bills in some ways are modeling their offense after NE from the Brady years. They ran a lot of 12 personnel. The TEs are a big part of this offense too. It's not a bad passing offense when Kincaid is healthy. Knox is pretty good at catching balls too. These guys are often matched up with a LB too, which is a huge mismatch. I just think the WRs seem to be afterthoughts and it's a shame. Maybe, it's something they are building towards.

Edited 1 hour ago by Rockinon

[Big Turk]

17 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Yes but watching them play compared to other teams there is a difference. 

While the Bills do score, they still struggle in the 2nd half most of the games this season. They do well on both scripted drives of each half and seem to stall quite often after that. 

 

Huh? Can you please stop making things up?  Saying what you believe to be true is cool, but not when it is completely contradictory to facts...then it's just silliness.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Big Turk

[RobbRiddick]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

I will try not to make this a run-on sentence or get too long winded. Doing this while being lazy and doing voice to text

 

Coleman needs to be off the field more at the wide out position. It's just not working or scaring anyone. He can go out there on certain Downs to help lock and maintain some mystery on offense but he needs to be tucked inside or off the field all together. 

 

The outside needs to have speed and people to draw defenses deep and the off balance coverage. Josh might look there and capitalize on a deep ball threat. Gabe Davis will be the one to do this better then Coleman but who knows if Davis will get there this year 

Putting samuel, palmer, Moore, or someone else on the outside that can draw coverage with over the top help to be bracketed. 

We are not seeing much from Shakir right now and using him wisely needs to be considered. He's overvalued by the fan base but extremely talented. Nonetheless putting in Coleman as a big slot or second slot guy will draw in the defense a little more. This gives us options to run outside, or push Coleman to the boundary where he's big enough to get a contested catch or over the Middle where he can survive the big licks by a linebacker. 

 

We are misusing our talent plain and simple. 

 

As you used voice to text, I decided to read the post using text to voice so I now picture you as looking like Stephen Hawking