1st trip to Buffalo!

[chris heff]

21 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

First of all, I hope you have fun and the Bills deliver a victory!

 

As a former Buffalonian who (I duck as I type this) has visited and lived in bigger & better cities, I'll say that Buffalo has its charms. 

 

IMHO it's food scene is not world-class.  It doesn't have any Michelin-starred restaurants.  As far as I know, no James Beard award-winning chefs.  Asian food is far better on the West Coast.  Latin food is far better in the border states.  Almost everything is better in NYC.  But I do highly recommend the Buffalo classics: Wings and Beef-on-Weck.  And if there were a way to measure this, I think Buffalo would lead the nation in most good pizzerias per capita.  "Buffalo Pizza" with its cup-and-char pepperoni and cheesy overload is a thing in its own right. You can find some good Polish food, too, since a lot of Poles live in Buffalo.  In my opinion, btw, Mighty Taco (mentioned previously) used to be awesome but has faded over the years into a grim shadow of Taco Bell.  

 

Niagara Falls is a must-see.  Both the Canadian and American sides (including Goat Island).  The Maid of the Mist boat ride is definitely worth the money.  It'll take you to a spot where you're nearly surrounded by cascading water.  Very cool.

 

If you're into architecture, there's a Frank Lloyd Wright house in the city and another about 20 or 30 minutes to the south.  Both are open to the public.  In fact, there's a lot of good/great architecture in Buffalo dating to the early 1900s when Buffalo was a booming metropolis, though much of it is in rough condition now.  

The zoo and some of the museums are decent.  In my opinion, none are must-see.  If you like presidential history, you can see the house where McKinley died after being shot in Buffalo, and a different house a few blocks away where Teddy Roosevelt was then sworn in.  But of these are skippable, too.  

 

Delaware Park (mentioned previously) is frustrating.  It was beautifully designed in the 1860s by Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux, the same landscape architects who designed Central Park and some other fantastic spaces.  But in the 1960s, we stupidly built a highway down the middle of Delaware Park, forever scarring it.

 

 

I recommend wearing Bills gear every day.  The Mafia is for real.  I've lived in or near KC, SF, Oakland, Indy, Atlanta, Seattle, San Diego, and St. Louis, and been to nearly every other NFL city.  Buffalo's love of their team is different.  You might want to stop at The Bills Store, next to the stadium, to get outfitted.  

 

 

Well said, however, having run a Michelin-starred restaurant and having worked with James Beard award- winning- chefs, not to mention having known James Beard himself, regional ethnic cuisine should not be discounted. One of the best meals I’ve ever had was at my cousin’s wedding at a  Polish Hall in North Tonawanda.

[muppy]

12 hours ago, Bills!Win! said:

See, do, and eat everything in east Aurora. That’s all.

VIDLERS 5 and dime is a store unlike any Ive seen in the USA

 

is it worth a trip on its own? Im not sure but I did like it and bought a few things I still have

 

(glitter Elvis and Glitter Marilyn Monroe Christmas tree ornaments)  simply awesome 

[yall]

21 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

First of all, I hope you have fun and the Bills deliver a victory!

 

As a former Buffalonian who (I duck as I type this) has visited and lived in bigger & better cities, I'll say that Buffalo has its charms. 

 

IMHO it's food scene is not world-class.  It doesn't have any Michelin-starred restaurants.  As far as I know, no James Beard award-winning chefs.  Asian food is far better on the West Coast.  Latin food is far better in the border states.  Almost everything is better in NYC.  But I do highly recommend the Buffalo classics: Wings and Beef-on-Weck.  And if there were a way to measure this, I think Buffalo would lead the nation in most good pizzerias per capita.  "Buffalo Pizza" with its cup-and-char pepperoni and cheesy overload is a thing in its own right. You can find some good Polish food, too, since a lot of Poles live in Buffalo.  In my opinion, btw, Mighty Taco (mentioned previously) used to be awesome but has faded over the years into a grim shadow of Taco Bell.  

 

Niagara Falls is a must-see.  Both the Canadian and American sides (including Goat Island).  The Maid of the Mist boat ride is definitely worth the money.  It'll take you to a spot where you're nearly surrounded by cascading water.  Very cool.

 

If you're into architecture, there's a Frank Lloyd Wright house in the city and another about 20 or 30 minutes to the south.  Both are open to the public.  In fact, there's a lot of good/great architecture in Buffalo dating to the early 1900s when Buffalo was a booming metropolis, though much of it is in rough condition now.  

The zoo and some of the museums are decent.  In my opinion, none are must-see.  If you like presidential history, you can see the house where McKinley died after being shot in Buffalo, and a different house a few blocks away where Teddy Roosevelt was then sworn in.  But of these are skippable, too.  

 

Delaware Park (mentioned previously) is frustrating.  It was beautifully designed in the 1860s by Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux, the same landscape architects who designed Central Park and some other fantastic spaces.  But in the 1960s, we stupidly built a highway down the middle of Delaware Park, forever scarring it.

 

 

I recommend wearing Bills gear every day.  The Mafia is for real.  I've lived in or near KC, SF, Oakland, Indy, Atlanta, Seattle, San Diego, and St. Louis, and been to nearly every other NFL city.  Buffalo's love of their team is different.  You might want to stop at The Bills Store, next to the stadium, to get outfitted.  

 

 

There have been several recent James Beard finalists in Buffalo. There are also plenty of incredible food options ranging from regional to ethnic cuisine that don't rival NYC in number of options, but are close in terms of quality and authenticity.

 

It's not like an Ethiopian guy in Buffalo is somehow less real than his cousin in the Bronx.

 

Bad take. 

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, DrZ said:

Beavercreek Ohio

 

Buffalo is a somewhat bigger version of Dayton - both midwestern, rust-belt cities - but Buffalo is on the water, so maybe a trip to Canalside or some other waterfront locale might be nice.  Whatever you do, I hope you enjoy!

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

Well said, however, having run a Michelin-starred restaurant and having worked with James Beard award- winning- chefs, not to mention having known James Beard himself, regional ethnic cuisine should not be discounted. One of the best meals I’ve ever had was at my cousin’s wedding at a  Polish Hall in North Tonawanda.

 

Agreed.  I've also had some great food in unexpected places.  

 

Whenever I go to Buffalo, I try to hit a few of these regional specialties: Wings, Pizza, Pierogi, Beef-on-Weck, and sponge candy.  And much to our surprise, we once found excellent Indian food in Buffalo.   

 

And, btw, Geoffrey Zakarian, celebrity chef, is a huge fan of the Beef-on-Weck at Charlie the Butcher in Buffalo.  

 

If you don't mind me asking, what Michelin-starred restaurant did you run?  

 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, yall said:

There have been several recent James Beard finalists in Buffalo. There are also plenty of incredible food options ranging from regional to ethnic cuisine that don't rival NYC in number of options, but are close in terms of quality and authenticity.

 

It's not like an Ethiopian guy in Buffalo is somehow less real than his cousin in the Bronx.

 

Bad take. 

 

 

 

We can agree to disagree.  But I've eaten all over Buffalo and I've also eaten all over several other cities as well.  This is one of the reasons I don't want to retire in Buffalo.  I love food and, for me, the food scene in nearly every West Coast city (Vancouver BC, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, LA) is much more diverse and just plain better.  

 

I'm not saying Buffalo doesn't have some good dining options.  It does.  I always eat well when I'm there.

 

But, for example, the people I know in California don't go out for "Chinese" food.  They're much more specific about what they want: Hakka, Szechuan, Cantonese, or some other regional specialty.  And beyond the regional differences, there are Chinese restaurants in California razor-focused one particular thing like Dim Sum, or hand-pulled noodles, or dumplings, or hot pot, or clay pot, or mala skewers, or whatever.  Chinese restaurants in Buffalo are mostly generic Chinese-American places serving inauthentic and less-delicious food.    

Or think about Latin food.  It's hard to find a good Mexican restaurant in Buffalo.  In CA (San Francisco or LA), you can find tons of good Mexican including Jaliscan, Baja, Yucatecan, Mexico City street food, and my personal favorite: Oaxacan.  If your Latin palate extends beyond Mexico, you can also find good Peruvian, Colombian, Brazilian, Salvadoran, Puerto Rican, Honduran, and Guatemalan restaurants.

But if Europe is more your thing, you can also find German, French, Italian, Spanish, Greek, Romanian, Russian, Austrian, and Scandanavian (etc.) restaurants.  Both LA and SF have restaurants serving over 100 different national and regional cuisines.  

This is kind of a hobby of mine - trying new cuisines.  The other day, I ate at a good Uyghur restaurant in San Jose.  Buffalo doesn't even have a Uyghur restaurant.  Most American cities don't.  The Bay Area has seven.  

 

That covers diversity but what about quality?  LA has 27 Michelin-starred restaurants.  The Bay Area has 17 including two (French Laundry and Atelier Crenn) that are considered among the very best in the world.  The entire state of California state has 87 Michelin-starred restaurants.  Vancouver BC has 9 and a strong overall food scene.  Michelin doesn't do a Seattle guide yet, but its food scene is also excellent.   Food & Wine magazine ranks LA, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle all in the top 10 food cities in America.  Buffalo, sadly, didn't make the top 25, which is as far as the list goes.

 

 

[chris heff]

54 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Agreed.  I've also had some great food in unexpected places.  

 

Whenever I go to Buffalo, I try to hit a few of these regional specialties: Wings, Pizza, Pierogi, Beef-on-Weck, and sponge candy.  And much to our surprise, we once found excellent Indian food in Buffalo.   

 

And, btw, Geoffrey Zakarian, celebrity chef, is a huge fan of the Beef-on-Weck at Charlie the Butcher in Buffalo.  

 

If you don't mind me asking, what Michelin-starred restaurant did you run?  

 

The River Cafe, Brooklyn USA. It was a long time ago, one great young chef after another. Back when Andrew Friedman, author of, Chefs, Drugs and Rock & Roll, called it the most important restaurant in the world. It was fun and exciting.

[hondo in seattle]

41 minutes ago, chris heff said:

The River Cafe, Brooklyn USA. It was a long time ago, one great young chef after another. Back when Andrew Friedman, author of, Chefs, Drugs and Rock & Roll, called it the most important restaurant in the world. It was fun and exciting.

 

"The most important restaurant in the world..."   That's quite a compliment!

 

I believe Iron Chef Marc Forgione's dad worked at the River Cafe???  (I used to watch the Food Network).  

 

[Dan Darragh]

3 hours ago, chris heff said:

Has anyone really named a kid Adolf since 1939?

I knew an Adolf when I was in college in the late 1970s

[Draconator]

51 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

We can agree to disagree.  But I've eaten all over Buffalo and I've also eaten all over several other cities as well.  This is one of the reasons I don't want to retire in Buffalo.  I love food and, for me, the food scene in nearly every West Coast city (Vancouver BC, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, LA) is much more diverse and just plain better.  

 

I'm not saying Buffalo doesn't have some good dining options.  It does.  I always eat well when I'm there.

 

But, for example, the people I know in California don't go out for "Chinese" food.  They're much more specific about what they want: Hakka, Szechuan, Cantonese, or some other regional specialty.  And beyond the regional differences, there are Chinese restaurants in California razor-focused one particular thing like Dim Sum, or hand-pulled noodles, or dumplings, or hot pot, or clay pot, or mala skewers, or whatever.  Chinese restaurants in Buffalo are mostly generic Chinese-American places serving inauthentic and less-delicious food.    

Or think about Latin food.  It's hard to find a good Mexican restaurant in Buffalo.  In CA (San Francisco or LA), you can find tons of good Mexican including Jaliscan, Baja, Yucatecan, Mexico City street food, and my personal favorite: Oaxacan.  If your Latin palate extends beyond Mexico, you can also find good Peruvian, Colombian, Brazilian, Salvadoran, Puerto Rican, Honduran, and Guatemalan restaurants.

But if Europe is more your thing, you can also find German, French, Italian, Spanish, Greek, Romanian, Russian, Austrian, and Scandanavian (etc.) restaurants.  Both LA and SF have restaurants serving over 100 different national and regional cuisines.  

This is kind of a hobby of mine - trying new cuisines.  The other day, I ate at a good Uyghur restaurant in San Jose.  Buffalo doesn't even have a Uyghur restaurant.  Most American cities don't.  The Bay Area has seven.  

 

That covers diversity but what about quality?  LA has 27 Michelin-starred restaurants.  The Bay Area has 17 including two (French Laundry and Atelier Crenn) that are considered among the very best in the world.  The entire state of California state has 87 Michelin-starred restaurants.  Vancouver BC has 9 and a strong overall food scene.  Michelin doesn't do a Seattle guide yet, but its food scene is also excellent.   Food & Wine magazine ranks LA, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle all in the top 10 food cities in America.  Buffalo, sadly, didn't make the top 25, which is as far as the list goes.

 

 

I've had steak at Ruth Chris in Toronto and San Francisco, Russel's in Williamsville, and without question, the best steak I've ever had is at a place called The Loft in the small town of Laurel, Mississippi. It doesn't need to be a large metropolitan area for amazing cuisine. 

[chris heff]

9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

"The most important restaurant in the world..."   That's quite a compliment!

 

I believe Iron Chef Marc Forgione's dad worked at the River Cafe???  (I used to watch the Food Network).  

 

Larry Forgione, worked with him, friend of mine. Pretty sure I’ve bounced Marc on my knee, not recently however.

8 minutes ago, Draconator said:

I've had steak at Ruth Chris in Toronto and San Francisco, Russel's in Williamsville, and without question, the best steak I've ever had is at a place called The Loft in the small town of Laurel, Mississippi. It doesn't need to be a large metropolitan area for amazing cuisine. 

We had breakfast at a dinner in Hamburg a couple of years ago. The corned beef hash was unbelievable. Place was packed, can’t remember b the name.

[chris heff]

22 minutes ago, Draconator said:

I've had steak at Ruth Chris in Toronto and San Francisco, Russel's in Williamsville, and without question, the best steak I've ever had is at a place called The Loft in the small town of Laurel, Mississippi. It doesn't need to be a large metropolitan area for amazing cuisine. 

Thought about your experience for a bit, I’ve never been a big steakhouse guy, but I get it. Good steakhouses have dry aging rooms. The environment of a dry aging room is hard, if not impossible to replicate. An example is the famous Brooklyn Steakhouse Peter Luger, good steak. They have a second location in Great Neck on Long Island, it’s not the same. They can do everything exactly the same, but they can’t control the environment that affects the dry aging. That restaurant in Laurel, aside from good preparation, more than likely took great care with the dry aging and what ever environmental factors created a unique flavor.

[yall]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

We can agree to disagree.  But I've eaten all over Buffalo and I've also eaten all over several other cities as well.  This is one of the reasons I don't want to retire in Buffalo.  I love food and, for me, the food scene in nearly every West Coast city (Vancouver BC, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, LA) is much more diverse and just plain better.  

 

I'm not saying Buffalo doesn't have some good dining options.  It does.  I always eat well when I'm there.

 

But, for example, the people I know in California don't go out for "Chinese" food.  They're much more specific about what they want: Hakka, Szechuan, Cantonese, or some other regional specialty.  And beyond the regional differences, there are Chinese restaurants in California razor-focused one particular thing like Dim Sum, or hand-pulled noodles, or dumplings, or hot pot, or clay pot, or mala skewers, or whatever.  Chinese restaurants in Buffalo are mostly generic Chinese-American places serving inauthentic and less-delicious food.    

Or think about Latin food.  It's hard to find a good Mexican restaurant in Buffalo.  In CA (San Francisco or LA), you can find tons of good Mexican including Jaliscan, Baja, Yucatecan, Mexico City street food, and my personal favorite: Oaxacan.  If your Latin palate extends beyond Mexico, you can also find good Peruvian, Colombian, Brazilian, Salvadoran, Puerto Rican, Honduran, and Guatemalan restaurants.

But if Europe is more your thing, you can also find German, French, Italian, Spanish, Greek, Romanian, Russian, Austrian, and Scandanavian (etc.) restaurants.  Both LA and SF have restaurants serving over 100 different national and regional cuisines.  

This is kind of a hobby of mine - trying new cuisines.  The other day, I ate at a good Uyghur restaurant in San Jose.  Buffalo doesn't even have a Uyghur restaurant.  Most American cities don't.  The Bay Area has seven.  

 

That covers diversity but what about quality?  LA has 27 Michelin-starred restaurants.  The Bay Area has 17 including two (French Laundry and Atelier Crenn) that are considered among the very best in the world.  The entire state of California state has 87 Michelin-starred restaurants.  Vancouver BC has 9 and a strong overall food scene.  Michelin doesn't do a Seattle guide yet, but its food scene is also excellent.   Food & Wine magazine ranks LA, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle all in the top 10 food cities in America.  Buffalo, sadly, didn't make the top 25, which is as far as the list goes.

 

 

Nearly everything you've described (save for perhaps a few of the niche asian cuisines) can be found here.

 

No ***** LA has more options? Thanks Captain obvious. Hard to believe a metro area of 13-14 million has more choices than one of roughly 1 million.

 

You clearly haven't been back long enough or explored enough to give the local fare a fair shake in the last 10 years, but hey, defer to your awards and magazines.

45 minutes ago, Draconator said:

I've had steak at Ruth Chris in Toronto and San Francisco, Russel's in Williamsville, and without question, the best steak I've ever had is at a place called The Loft in the small town of Laurel, Mississippi. It doesn't need to be a large metropolitan area for amazing cuisine. 

But but.... the awards!

[hondo in seattle]

51 minutes ago, Draconator said:

I've had steak at Ruth Chris in Toronto and San Francisco, Russel's in Williamsville, and without question, the best steak I've ever had is at a place called The Loft in the small town of Laurel, Mississippi. It doesn't need to be a large metropolitan area for amazing cuisine. 

 

I hear you.

 

I was once driving across the US and stopped in some little town off the highway.  I was hungry but not in the mood for fast food nor a diner, and this little burb wasn't big enough to have much else.  Or so I thought.  As I drove around, as unlikely as it was, I saw a sign for a Basque restaurant and had a great meal.

 

Even the smallest towns sometimes have awesome food, though your odds and choices are better in the big city. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

On 9/10/2025 at 10:06 AM, Big Turk said:

Lewiston is the crown gem of that area. If you like hiking(and even if you don't do it anyway---thank me later) take a hike along the Art Park Gorge trails, the views are stunning.  The view getting back onto 104 towards Niagara Falls could literally be a postcard that you send to people. Then go into and walk around downtown Lewiston and go down the river area...super cool little town.

My hometown.  Much less touristy than Niagara on the Lake.  I believe they're still running a jet boat upstream from Lewiston. Looks to be a blast. Some great fishing but you'll need a guide.  If you go, Hibbard's custard is excellent as is Vincenzo's pizza.  Finally, Fort Niagara in Youngstown (6 miles downriver from Lewiston where the river meets the lake) is a nice historic visit.  On a clear day you can see the Toronto skyline from there.

[hondo in seattle]

32 minutes ago, yall said:

Nearly everything you've described (save for perhaps a few of the niche asian cuisines) can be found here.

 

No ***** LA has more options? Thanks Captain obvious. Hard to believe a metro area of 13-14 million has more choices than one of roughly 1 million.

 

You clearly haven't been back long enough or explored enough to give the local fare a fair shake in the last 10 years, but hey, defer to your awards and magazines.

But but.... the awards!

 

I go back to Buffalo typically every 2 or 3 years.  Each time I do, I talk to family and friends about restaurants, check Yelp and TripAdvisor reviews, and eat at the most promising spots.  My last visit was 2 years ago so maybe a bunch of good restaurants have popped up since.  

 

The awards do mean something.  So do my own taste buds.  They both tell me the same story.  I apologize if you don't like the story, but my experience is my experience.  I've eaten out at so many restaurants in so many cities in 40+ different states and 20+ different countries, my opinion is strongly held.  But I'm glad you're happy with the Buffalo food scene.  It's all subjective.  If I loved BBQ, maybe Kansas City or Austin would be my favorite food cities.  But I'm wired differently.          

 

Btw, I'll add this: Pizza in Buffalo is criminally underrated.  I once saw a top ten list for pizza created by two pizza chefs.  Weirdly, to me, they had both Seattle and San Francisco in their top ten but not Buffalo.   I've had plenty of pizza in those three cities and Buffalo pizza, on average, is easily the best.  I could only guess they'd never been there. 

 

Edited September 11 by hondo in seattle

[Augie]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Agreed.  I've also had some great food in unexpected places.  

 

Whenever I go to Buffalo, I try to hit a few of these regional specialties: Wings, Pizza, Pierogi, Beef-on-Weck, and sponge candy.  And much to our surprise, we once found excellent Indian food in Buffalo.   

 

And, btw, Geoffrey Zakarian, celebrity chef, is a huge fan of the Beef-on-Weck at Charlie the Butcher in Buffalo.  

 

If you don't mind me asking, what Michelin-starred restaurant did you run?  

 

 

I remember that episode. When we flew in we went straight from the airport to Schwabl’s for the memories, BoW and German potato salad. Awesome, but then we drove past Charlie’s the Butcher a few times (hard not to going to/from the airport) and I wanted to stop there too! And Ted’s, and Mighty, and….You can’t do it all! 

 

BTW - I make my kimmelweck using the instructions on Charlie the Butcher’s website. They used to suggest a cornstarch slurry I believe to adhere the salt and caraway seeds, but now they use an egg wash.  Why do I recall that?  🤷‍♂️

[yall]

18 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I go back to Buffalo typically every 2 or 3 years.  Each time I do, I talk to family and friends about restaurants, check Yelp and TripAdvisor reviews, and eat at the most promising spots.  My last visit was 2 years ago so maybe a bunch of good restaurants have popped up since.  

 

The awards do mean something.  So do my own taste buds.  They both tell me the same story.  I apologize if you don't like the story, but my experience is my experience.  I've eaten out at so many restaurants in so many cities in 40+ different states and 20+ different countries, my opinion is strongly held.  But I'm glad you're happy with the Buffalo food scene.  It's all subjective.  If I loved BBQ, maybe Kansas City or Austin would be my favorite food cities.  But I'm wired differently.          

 

Btw, I'll add this: Pizza in Buffalo is criminally underrated.  I once saw a top ten list for pizza created by two pizza chefs.  Weirdly, to me, they had both Seattle and San Francisco in their top ten but not Buffalo.   I've had plenty of pizza in those three cities and Buffalo pizza, on average, is easily the best.  I could only guess they'd never been there. 

 

Now I no you're full of it, because most Buffalo pizza is trash. 😂 

 

I've traveled everywhere (and still do) including overseas and most major metro areas. Unique culinary experiences can be found everywhere.

 

To fixate on awards tells me all I need to know.

Edited September 11 by yall

[hondo in seattle]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I remember that episode. When we flew in we went straight from the airport to Schwabl’s for the memories, BoW and German potato salad. Awesome, but then we drove past Charlie’s the Butcher a few times (hard not to going to/from the airport) and I wanted to stop there too! And Ted’s, and Mighty, and….You can’t do it all! 

 

BTW - I make my kimmelweck using the instructions on Charlie the Butcher’s website. They used to suggest a cornstarch slurry I believe to adhere the salt and caraway seeds, but now they use an egg wash.  Why do I recall that?  🤷‍♂️

 

My Filipina wife is a good mimic.  When we have a good meal at a restaurant, be it Cambodian, or Oaxacan, or French, or whatever, she'll come home and imitate the dish, often with great success.  But we decided Beef-on-Weck would be impossible because you can't buy Kimmelweck rolls where we live.  Stupid us, we never considered making our own.  This would be a great 4th of July project.  

[hondo in seattle]

5 minutes ago, yall said:

Now I no you're full of it, because most Buffalo pizza is trash. 😂 

 

I've traveled everywhere (and still do) including overseas and most major metro areas. Unique culinary experiences can be found everywhere.

 

To fixate on awards tells me all I need to know.

 

Well, I guess we won't be sharing a beer the next time I'm in Buffalo.  That's okay, I'm not a beer guy anyway.  

In the meantime, I'm going to eat well and hope you do, too.