Los Angeles under military attack

[Doc Brown]

5 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Law prof Steve Vladeck (read his Substack! He's great. Written for lawyers but understandable by informed non-lawyers) provides a little sanity here:

 

There are a lot of misunderstandings and misinformation out there about what Trump has and hasn’t done, and given that I’ve covered these topics before, it seemed worth a quick explainer on why this move is a big deal—but why it also is not as drastic an escalation (or abuse) as many had feared, at least not yet.

The TL;DR here is that Trump has not (yet) invoked the Insurrection Act, which means that the 2000 additional troops that will soon be brought to bear will not be allowed to engage in ordinary law enforcement activities without violating a different law—the Posse Comitatus Act. All that these troops will be able to do is provide a form of force protection and other logistical support for ICE personnel. Whether that, in turn, leads to further escalation is the bigger issue (and, indeed, may be the very purpose of their deployment). But at least as I’m writing this, we’re not there yet.

 

That's a critical point. Right now, the National Guard troops cannot engage in law enforcement activities. They are limited to a support role. Use of the Insurrection Act would bring us into a whole new era. Let's hope we don't get there.

 

https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/156-federalizing-the-california-national

Interesting.  The author seems to think this is a political stunt reading through the whole thing.  That's at least my interpretation of it.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Interesting.  The author seems to think this is a political stunt reading through the whole thing.  That's at least my interpretation of it.

 

What is?  The riots or the NG being deployed?

[Doc Brown]

Just now, Doc said:

 

What is?  The riots or the NG being deployed?

The National Guard.  It's an interesting read but it's a left leaning author.

[Roundybout]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

You're so brave.  
 

Crying because the majority of this country won’t freely hand over the land our families were born, raised and buried on. 
 

 

 

You would have handed Anne Frank over to the Germans, no doubt about it. 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The National Guard.  It's an interesting read but it's a left leaning author.

 

I was mostly being sarcastic.  

 

Deploying the NG wasn't a political stunt.  If they had deployed them before things got violent, sure.

[Doc Brown]

22 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I was mostly being sarcastic.  

 

Deploying the NG wasn't a political stunt.  If they had deployed them before things got violent, sure.

My response was mostly sarcasm too.  If you think deploying the National Guard is a political stunt than I have a bridge to sell you.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, they're there in a support role at present.  And hopefully their presence is a deterrent to further escalation.   If not then...they'll need to be dealt with.

Does this sound like "support" to you?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/national-guard-troops-arrive-in-los-angeles-to-quell-protests-on-orders-from-trump

 

The confrontation broke out as hundreds of people protested in front of the Metropolitan Detention Center in downtown Los Angeles, where several of the newly-arrived National Guard troops stood shoulder to shoulder behind plastic riot shields.

Video showed uniformed officers shooting off the smoke-filled canisters as they advanced into the street, causing protesters to retreat. It was not immediately clear what prompted the use of chemical irritants or which law enforcement agency fired them.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

 

You would have handed Anne Frank over to the Germans, no doubt about it. 

It must be difficult to debate when you’re only capable of comparing everything to one event.  

[Roundybout]

17 minutes ago, SCBills said:

It must be difficult to debate when you’re only capable of comparing everything to one event.  

Pretty big event 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Does this sound like "support" to you?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/national-guard-troops-arrive-in-los-angeles-to-quell-protests-on-orders-from-trump

 

The confrontation broke out as hundreds of people protested in front of the Metropolitan Detention Center in downtown Los Angeles, where several of the newly-arrived National Guard troops stood shoulder to shoulder behind plastic riot shields.

Video showed uniformed officers shooting off the smoke-filled canisters as they advanced into the street, causing protesters to retreat. It was not immediately clear what prompted the use of chemical irritants or which law enforcement agency fired them.

 

Yes.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yes.

 where several of the newly-arrived National Guard troops stood shoulder to shoulder behind plastic riot shields.

Video showed uniformed officers shooting off the smoke-filled canisters as they advanced into the street, causing protesters to retreat. It was not immediately clear what prompted the use of chemical irritants or which law enforcement agency fired them.

 

What if it's found that national Guard troops fired the chemical irritants?  Define your understanding of "support".

Edited 4 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

 where several of the newly-arrived National Guard troops stood shoulder to shoulder behind plastic riot shields.

Video showed uniformed officers shooting off the smoke-filled canisters as they advanced into the street, causing protesters to retreat. It was not immediately clear what prompted the use of chemical irritants or which law enforcement agency fired them.

 

What if it's found that national Guard troops fired the chemical irritants?  Define your understanding of "support".

 

If they fired the chemical irritants than they disobeyed orders.  But they know their jobs/roles.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If they fired the chemical irritants than they disobeyed orders.  But they know their jobs/roles.

So without any evidence, you assume that they didn't?   You also assume that they weren't ordered to. you avoided the question.  If they did, would that be outside the parameters of "support"?

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

So without any evidence, you assume that they didn't?   You also assume that they weren't ordered to. you avoided the question.  If they did, would that be outside the parameters of "support"?

 

Yes, I'd need evidence that they did.  Not assuming they did.  

 

And the article you provided said they were there just for support.  So unless there's proof they did more than just stand shoulder to shoulder behind riot shields...

[aristocrat]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

So without any evidence, you assume that they didn't?   You also assume that they weren't ordered to. you avoided the question.  If they did, would that be outside the parameters of "support"?

Did you want national guard to deploy on Jan 6?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Yes, I'd need evidence that they did.  Not assuming they did.  

 

And the article you provided said they were there just for support.  So unless there's proof they did more than just stand shoulder to shoulder behind riot shields...

So if they used chemical irritants would not be support!  Your answers are clear as mud but it seems that’s what you are saying.  My link was from pbs and did not say they were just there for support. It said what I quoted. 

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

So if they used chemical irritants would not be support!  Your answers are clear as mud but it seems that’s what you are saying.  My link was from pbs and did not say they were just there for support. It said what I quoted. 

 

Read what The Frankish Reich posted.  At present they are in a supportive role.  Soon they may not be.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

38 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Did you want national guard to deploy on Jan 6?

Yes. The scum were attacking federal property and threatening federal employees. As I recall, the mayor of DC requested them as well. The mayor of LA and the governor of California did not. 

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Read what The Frankish Reich posted.  At present they are in a supportive role.  Soon they may not be.

I read it. The author doesn’t definitively know that. How could he?  Might not be known until California does a complete investigation. Reports like the PBS one you incorrectly read suggest this might not be true. So what if they did fire chemical irritants. Simple question, simple answer. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Yes “Doc”, you are a joke. Keep on laughing. 

[Mikie2times]

Immigration is a big issue here, not just because of the liberal politics, because the boarder to Mexico, climate, and legal diversity in the region. The Midwest where I spent most life might as well be a different world compared to Southern California. 
 

The people out here are certainly used to immigrants. I’m sure some want the boarder closed and some don’t really care. Hell, in the San Diego area you meet a ton of conservatives. But still, you see these people. The boarder is an hour from here. A lot of illegals have legal family members and friends, etc. This is a highly emotional subject. Legal or not we are talking about separating family’s. To think deportations in this region were not going to be met with some degree of resistance is unlikely.

Now had this been a conservative state under different terms, do people think Trump would have basically ignored the governors request? It seems a bit unprecedented to do so or not work with local and state authorities when this occurs. Was this truly a situation that could

no longer be handled at the local level? I doubt it, a few photos and stories of violence doesn’t make that the case either. It was a chance to exert influence in a liberal stronghold.  Hope to embarrass local and state authorities.
 

Meanwhile people are the chess pieces here. Easy to forget when photos of a couple of the ***** bags in the mix lead the headlines. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Mikie2times