Incel

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, JFKjr said:

Cringe thread.

Cringe, sure.. but the 80/20 discussion is one that needs to be addressed because it’s destroying the millennial and gen z generations. 
 

Its going to have massive socio-political ramifications moving forward. 

[JFKjr]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Cringe, sure.. but the 80/20 discussion is one that needs to be addressed because it’s destroying the millennial and gen z generations. 
 

Its going to have massive socio-political ramifications moving forward. 

 

It's perfectly okay to not use an app to get dates/find partners if that dynamic isn't working for whomever is using it.

 

My two kids are Gen Z guys and have no trouble finding women to date. They don't use apps.

[SCBills]

Just now, JFKjr said:

 

It's perfectly okay to not use an app to get dates/find partners if that dynamic isn't working for whomever is using it.

 

My two kids are Gen Z guys and have no trouble finding women to date. They don't use apps.

Of course it is.. it’s not very common though. 
 

Do they still have a large friend group from high school or college?

 

The issue is what happens once men no longer have that, although.. the growing issue is that men and women aren’t dating even when in high school & college.  
 

The growing rift between the sexes is approaching red alert level. 

[K D]

My thoughts:

 

Why is the narrative in the media about the men when it should be about the women? 80% of the women go for 20% of the men. Sounds pretty shallow. The same women that supposedly hate "toxic" male masculinity all go for the same guys with big muscles who flaunt their wealth.

 

The kids call it rizz and you essentially have to be an internet marketing savant to attract a female these days. But when you meet these Instagram famous people in real life they are a shell of what they portray online. So why do women fall for this stuff? I think that should be the story.

 

Andrew Tate wouldn't be so popular if he didn't get results. Young boys see someone like that who gets chicks, has muscles, money, cars. It's the Instagram lifestyle that is so popular these days. Real rich people don't flaunt wealth like that. They are too busy working to show off. Could you imagine paying someone $15 an hour to work for you and then meanwhile you are showing everyone your exotic cars and impressive vacations? Almost everything you see online is completely fake or people drowning in debt to try and show off.

 

The laws of attracting females hasn't changed but the medium has. People are addicted to their phones. If you are staying home and relying on meeting people online then you better bring your marketing A-game. Unless your insta is popping you are in trouble. But the answer is to get out in the REAL WORLD and meet people. They might *gasp* like you for you.

 

If you are having a hard time and you aren't great looking or rich or have an amazing personality then HIT THE GYM HARD. Girls pretend like they don't like meatheads but they ALL DO. Even the ones you don't think would, like goth chicks or feminists. You would be surprised.

[LDD]

46 minutes ago, SCBills said:

What is 80/20?

 

That 80% of women are competing for the same 20% of men?

 

In the dating app world, it’s unequivocally true.

 

If you’re attractive, are or pretend to be successful (because how would they know) and are over 6’, you’ll have success. 
 

What ends up happening is those men entertain women that they normally wouldn’t as hook ups.  With no intention to pursue them beyond sex.

 

Those women, who should be talking to men on their level, end up in months/years long situationships with men above their level.  They then have higher standards than they should have and end up bitter/angry at men because of wasting years of their life on unfulfilling relationships where they’re strung along. 
 

This is all on a very superficial level, and there are outliers, but it’s very much a “thing”. 
 

For 20% men, it’s relatively easy to, at least, get laid.   To avoid painting a too rosy picture for those of us who fall into that category.. the top 10% of women  get attention from celebs, athletes, high net worth guys who date in a world most of us will never know.  I dated a Falcons cheerleaders for a while.. the dudes shooting their shot her DM’s were wild.  Practice Squad, fringe roster guys, basketball players, influencers and high level execs. 
 

Moral of the story for men.. try to marry before college ends, because if not.. you’re best bet is to fall in that 20% by random chance on the height piece, move to a city, and have fun with hookup culture until it drains the life out of your soul.  At worst, you’re in the 80% and enter a dating world skewed against you superficially and encounter a world where women are fine being alone and you’re going to struggle if you have to turn to bumble, tinder, hinge etc. 

 

So in regards to “incels”.. imagine being a guy who struggles to ever even meet a woman in the modern dating world, and once you do, she already has a “men ain’t ish” mentality after getting used by men she now compares you to physically that she was never meant to be entertaining anyway in prior generations. 
 

End result.  Lonely angry men.  Lonely bitter women. 
 

 

Interesting and insightful post.  I'm a bit older and married so I missed the dating app culture.  It seems that you would place the blame mostly on the app and the culture and expectations that surround it.   Would you suggest that young people simply steer clear of the apps altogether if they're trying to find a long term match?

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, LDD said:

 

Interesting and insightful post.  I'm a bit older and married so I missed the dating app culture.  It seems that you would place the blame mostly on the app and the culture and expectations that surround it.   Would you suggest that young people simply steer clear of the apps altogether if they're trying to find a long term match?

I don’t think it’s avoidable once you get out of your high school/college years.

Some join running clubs or church groups, so I’d probably recommend something like that, but dating apps are a necessary evil for many who graduate college and move to a new city or leave their friend group behind. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

27 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I don’t think it’s avoidable once you get out of your high school/college years.

Some join running clubs or church groups, so I’d probably recommend something like that, but dating apps are a necessary evil for many who graduate college and move to a new city or leave their friend group behind. 

I'm an outsider.  Have not lived this but I can think of several ways for a discouraged male to improve things.  Many women love to dance.  Learn ballroom dancing at a studio and you'll meet many women.  There are invariably more women than men at the social dances.  Besides that, in lessons you frequently switch partners so that you learn to dance with everyone, up close and personal.  I would suggest having a special interest in latin dances, especially salsa and rhumba...Also, join a gym.  It will help with appearance, self esteem and is an opportunity to meet women.

 

I agree that if the u80/20 rule is real, we are in big trouble.  Like you said, free flowing bitterness, frustration and anger everywhere.

 

Finally, I think that toxic masculinity turns most women off.  They see self absorbed and insecure.  they see someone that resents their success.  that's not attractive.  Dare I say, young men might do well to embrace their feminine side more.

Edited 5 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever

[SCBills]

36 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

I'm an outsider.  Have not lived this but I can think of several ways for a discouraged male to improve things.  Many women love to dance.  Learn ballroom dancing at a studio and you'll meet many women.  There are invariably more women than men at the social dances.  Besides that, in lessons you frequently switch partners so that you learn to dance with everyone, up close and personal.  I would suggest having a special interest in latin dances, especially salsa and rhumba...Also, join a gym.  It will help with appearance, self esteem and is an opportunity to meet women.

 

I agree that if the u80/20 rule is real, we are in big trouble.  Like you said, free flowing bitterness, frustration and anger everywhere.

 

Finally, I think that toxic masculinity turns most women off.  They see self absorbed and insecure.  they see someone that resents their success.  that's not attractive.  Dare I say, young men might do well to embrace their feminine side more.

As to your point about male embrace of femininity… I don’t say this because I’m conservative, I say this because of experience…

 

Women, especially liberal women, lie about this.

 

They, by nature, are empathetic.  Men are typically not and they do not want us to be, regardless of what they say.

 

I just met the first woman I’ve ever been attracted to that’s “Never Trump” in dating.  She thinks he’s evil and cruel and any man who voted for him is a deal breaker.

 

She was attractive, extremely assertive, but wanting masculinity in most areas and had an extreme level of seething resentment towards most men, to the point she wants to hurt them emotionally.   NOT the type for any man to be feminine around.  But she’s the type who claims to want that. 
 

Once she asked and I told her I voted for Trump, she got upset, sent me 10 paragraphs of nonsense and we went our separate ways.

 

She complained that she only ever matches with guys like me. 
 

Yea… seems to be a typical problem for liberal women.  The all too familiar refrain of “I want a tall, fit, masculine, successful man .. but he needs to embody my leftist views”.  
 

That doesn’t really exist, and heaven help the guy who tries to be what women like that claim to want. 
 

For the record.. I have zero issue with women who are successful/career driven.  It’s not my preference, but it’s not a deal breaker.   I’m conservative but don’t espouse hardline trad views in dating.   I can see how that would turn women off, especially ones who have worked hard.  But it’s never about that.  It’s on a more primal arena.  The sexes haven’t changed on a chemical level. 
 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by SCBills

[The Frankish Reich]

53 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I don’t think it’s avoidable once you get out of your high school/college years.

Some join running clubs or church groups, so I’d probably recommend something like that, but dating apps are a necessary evil for many who graduate college and move to a new city or leave their friend group behind. 

I met my first wife and my second improved wife at work. I'll admit that they were both kind of out of my league. I don't know if they would've responded to me at all on match or whatever. But I guess I was quite irresistible in person. JD Hill Fan thinks it must be my wit.

It does bother me that dating at work is kind of a minefield now. Do we really want to drive all human relationships into an artificial transactional app?

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I met my first wife and my second improved wife at work. I'll admit that they were both kind of out of my league. I don't know if they would've responded to me at all on match or whatever. But I guess I was quite irresistible in person. JD Hill Fan thinks it must be my wit.

It does bother me that dating at work is kind of a minefield now. Do we really want to drive all human relationships into an artificial transactional app?

 

If you don't have model looks, the best way to get a woman who out of your league is to spend a lot of time around her.  The more you're around her the more she will get to like you, especially if you share similar views and show you're a good person.

[LDD]

22 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

 

They, by nature, are empathetic.  Men are typically not and they do not want us to be, regardless of what they say.

 

 
 

 

I think there's a nuance here that you're missing.  Many women don't necessarily want up front empathy, but they do want to see something in a man that shows an empathetic side.  I believe this relates instinctually to the woman's necessity to have a man that will fall in love with a raise a child that is created with her.  There is an instinct that tells her that this man will stick around to raise this child, important in nature.  Once a woman can pin down that idea in a man, she allows herself to commit to the relationship.  If he's just a masculine dude, she still might bang him out of attraction but it's just transitory.  

 

Think, "man with a puppy" is attractive. 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by LDD

[teef]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

What is 80/20?

 

That 80% of women are competing for the same 20% of men?

 

In the dating app world, it’s unequivocally true.

 

If you’re attractive, are or pretend to be successful (because how would they know) and are over 6’, you’ll have success. 
 

What ends up happening is those men entertain women that they normally wouldn’t as hook ups.  With no intention to pursue them beyond sex.

 

Those women, who should be talking to men on their level, end up in months/years long situationships with men above their level.  They then have higher standards than they should have and end up bitter/angry at men because of wasting years of their life on unfulfilling relationships where they’re strung along. 
 

This is all on a very superficial level, and there are outliers, but it’s very much a “thing”. 
 

For 20% men, it’s relatively easy to, at least, get laid.   To avoid painting a too rosy picture for those of us who fall into that category.. the top 10% of women  get attention from celebs, athletes, high net worth guys who date in a world most of us will never know.  I dated a Falcons cheerleaders for a while.. the dudes shooting their shot her DM’s were wild.  Practice Squad, fringe roster guys, basketball players, influencers and high level execs. 
 

Moral of the story for men.. try to marry before college ends, because if not.. you’re best bet is to fall in that 20% by random chance on the height piece, move to a city, and have fun with hookup culture until it drains the life out of your soul.  At worst, you’re in the 80% and enter a dating world skewed against you superficially and encounter a world where women are fine being alone and you’re going to struggle if you have to turn to bumble, tinder, hinge etc. 

 

So in regards to “incels”.. imagine being a guy who struggles to ever even meet a woman in the modern dating world, and once you do, she already has a “men ain’t ish” mentality after getting used by men she now compares you to physically that she was never meant to be entertaining anyway in prior generations. 
 

End result.  Lonely angry men.  Lonely bitter women. 
 

I actually saw a video about this recently, (before i watched adolescence) about this exact matter.  What made it more powerful was that number were added.  By numbers I mean they showed the number of men and women in dating age.  Once you start placing specifics on a partner, (size, looks, money) those numbers shrink wildly.  Even the 6 foot thing...if you eliminate the men under 6", the pool of available men is more than cut in half on so on.   On top of that, very few women are willing to bend on these criteria, adding to the nonsense.  I'm guessing those apps have just shaped the dating world for the negative.  

 

Have you ever seen the videos on X?  I have to imagine a lot are staged, but they'll interview young girls after being out.  When asked what they want out of a man, I'm sure you can guess the criteria.  The problem is the men who meet these criteria would never date the majority of these girls.  It's a case of setting themselves up for failure.  

 

Hell...they were running surveys on what young people think a salary is to be considered successful.  The answer...600k.  It's a new, warped reality that going to slap some people in the face.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

As to your point about male embrace of femininity… I don’t say this because I’m conservative, I say this because of experience…

 

Women, especially liberal women, lie about this.

 

They, by nature, are empathetic.  Men are typically not and they do not want us to be, regardless of what they say.

 

I just met the first woman I’ve ever been attracted to that’s “Never Trump” in dating.  She thinks he’s evil and cruel and any man who voted for him is a deal breaker.

 

She was attractive, extremely assertive, but wanting masculinity in most areas and had an extreme level of seething resentment towards most men, to the point she wants to hurt them emotionally.   NOT the type for any man to be feminine around.  But she’s the type who claims to want that. 
 

Once she asked and I told her I voted for Trump, she got upset, sent me 10 paragraphs of nonsense and we went our separate ways.

 

She complained that she only ever matches with guys like me. 
 

Yea… seems to be a typical problem for liberal women.  The all too familiar refrain of “I want a tall, fit, masculine, successful man .. but he needs to embody my leftist views”.  
 

That doesn’t really exist, and heaven help the guy who tries to be what women like that claim to want. 
 

For the record.. I have zero issue with women who are successful/career driven.  It’s not my preference, but it’s not a deal breaker.   I’m conservative but don’t espouse hardline trad views in dating.   I can see how that would turn women off, especially ones who have worked hard.  But it’s never about that.  It’s on a more primal arena.  The sexes haven’t changed on a chemical level .
 

 

We have several friends and acquaintances where the woman is the primary bread winner in the family.  These are interesting dynamics.  Most are not "beautiful" people physically.  At least one of the women is very conservative and so is her husband.  I think one of the most important things professional women look for is that their man is not intimidated or envious of their success and is comfortable in a nontraditional role.  I'm not sure those guys are readily available but nice work if you can get it.  Two professional couples are also pretty common and I think often successful based on mutual respect and admiration.  They often don't have kids.  I'm in this group.

 

I can definitely see politics affecting attraction however.  The US is so far divided by ideology that compatibility would be very difficult to achieve   I think you may have dodged a bullet..  I just don't see how a marriage like that really works.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

We have several friends and acquaintances where the woman is the primary bread winner in the family.  These are interesting dynamics.  Most are not "beautiful" people physically.  At least one of the women is very conservative and so is her husband.  I think one of the most important things professional women look for is that their man is not intimidated or envious of their success and is comfortable in a nontraditional role.  I'm not sure those guys are readily available but nice work if you can get it.  Two professional couples are also pretty common and I think often successful based on mutual respect and admiration.  They often don't have kids.  I'm in this group.

 

I can definitely see politics affecting attraction however.  The US is so far divided by ideology that compatibility would be very difficult to achieve   I think you may have dodged a bullet..  I just don't see how a marriage like that really works.

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

We have several friends and acquaintances where the woman is the primary bread winner in the family.  These are interesting dynamics.  Most are not "beautiful" people physically.  At least one of the women is very conservative and so is her husband.  I think one of the most important things professional women look for is that their man is not intimidated or envious of their success and is comfortable in a nontraditional role.  I'm not sure those guys are readily available but nice work if you can get it.  Two professional couples are also pretty common and I think often successful based on mutual respect and admiration.  They often don't have kids.  I'm in this group.

 

I can definitely see politics affecting attraction however.  The US is so far divided by ideology that compatibility would be very difficult to achieve   I think you may have dodged a bullet..  I just don't see how a marriage like that really works.

If the best she had to offer after a first encounter is a diatribe on all the reasons they think your politics suck, a bullet was most definitely dodged by @SCBills.  I think the common refrain should be..ah, f it.   Attractive is great, attractive can be fun but what a bore she likely is.  
 

I’m in the “just be you, but be a god version” of you camp.  Put in the effort, respect the other person and see where it goes.    You may not get as lucky as @The Frankish Reich, who, reading between the lines scored a threesome with ex and future wives, but you’ll be honest.   
 

@teef good to see you here and great post.  

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

We have several friends and acquaintances where the woman is the primary bread winner in the family.  These are interesting dynamics.  Most are not "beautiful" people physically.  At least one of the women is very conservative and so is her husband.  I think one of the most important things professional women look for is that their man is not intimidated or envious of their success and is comfortable in a nontraditional role.  I'm not sure those guys are readily available but nice work if you can get it.  Two professional couples are also pretty common and I think often successful based on mutual respect and admiration.  They often don't have kids.  I'm in this group.

 

I can definitely see politics affecting attraction however.  The US is so far divided by ideology that compatibility would be very difficult to achieve   I think you may have dodged a bullet..  I just don't see how a marriage like that really works.

Luckily it’s a rare occurrence in dating.. at least down here in the South. 
 

She’s the first time I’ve ever encountered that. 
 

And I agree that politics are important beyond a hook up.   I could never settle down with someone like that and vice-versa. 
 

Edited 22 minutes ago by SCBills