Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Yeah. Democrats suck at marketing. agree. We need invest in some jaded influencers, cartoons of D pols with superman bodies and memes. Talking sense no longer works for us. Your graph on generics and overall cost is surprising and good news except for those that require drugs not available as generics Edited May 12 by Joe Ferguson forever
The Frankish Reich Posted May 12 Posted May 12 I read the actual Executive Order. I have no idea how this is supposed to be enforced if drug companies don't voluntarily play along. My guess is it will be through antitrust actions, which isn't exactly the same as "immediately." Still, I hope it works... eventually. This is a rare Trump initiative that almost everyone seems to like, at least in concept. 1 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 12 Posted May 12 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: I don't believe so. I had a relative in England diagnosed with a rare condition which required a super specialist. She could see someone with specific expertise in that field in several months, see a more general specialist much sooner or see the super specialist as private pay. In the US, there are already many private pay concierge primary care docs. They usually don't deal with any insurance at all except for referrals, labs and X-rays. And they have a very small patient panel so you get more personalized care. And before you start complaining about bout a tiered system, it's always been tiered. Especially if you are on medicaid. Many docs refuse to accept it. Pharmaceuticals are much the same. You can get the one on the formulary at low cost or you can buy the newest weight loss drug for $500 per month for cash. And with the government negotiating for medicare, medicaid and the Va and having a closed formulary, prices will decrease greatly. It's what almost all of Europe does and one reason why their prices are so much lower. we don't need to reinvent the wheel. the blueprint is well established. hospitals the same.. you can go to a taj mahal at your own cost or an ordinary one covered by single payer. No, I don't have any complaints, just observations. You mentioned a couple posts previously about attracting the brightest and the best, that's why I wondered about a certain prerequisite of care for doctors benefiting from the system. Of course, the private pay folks may not be substantially better that those who treat all, they may just be better marketers. All things considered though, you end up with a system not at all unlike our system--it's just that the docs get to set the pricing v the market or the govt. In the end, someone is always on the wrong side of the equation. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 14 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: No, I don't have any complaints, just observations. You mentioned a couple posts previously about attracting the brightest and the best, that's why I wondered about a certain prerequisite of care for doctors benefiting from the system. Of course, the private pay folks may not be substantially better that those who treat all, they may just be better marketers. All things considered though, you end up with a system not at all unlike our system--it's just that the docs get to set the pricing v the market or the govt. In the end, someone is always on the wrong side of the equation. but no one would be without care. a basic level would be provided. the folks who can afford it can see those that are perceived as the best. true, it could be marketing but patients notice a difference. Go to health grades and look up your doc. The public constantly rates us which is good but can be improved.. At any rate, many factors influence recruitment: quality of care and thus quality of colleagues, lifestyle, autonomy, pay etc..the small hospital i mentioned and I recruited several great docs to my practice. Ah, the good old days. People motivated solely by pay may choose a less desirable location that's willing to pay more. Different corporate systems have different reputations largely based on how they prioritize true quality.
Doc Brown Posted May 12 Posted May 12 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: agree. We need invest in some jaded influencers, cartoons of D pols with superman bodies and memes. Talking sense no longer works for us. Your graph on generics and overall cost is surprising and good news except for those that require drugs not available as generics Biden could’ve done this executive order as well. As you can see, the other side will criticize anyways.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 11 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Biden could’ve done this executive order as well. As you can see, the other side will criticize anyways. He could have. As Frank said, how is this going to be implemented? If it’s price fixing, I’m glad he didn’t.
Wacka Posted May 12 Posted May 12 2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: And before you start complaining about bout a tiered system, it's always been tiered. Especially if you are on medicaid. Many docs refuse to accept it. I am on Medicare and Medicaid in NY. With the costs over $600k last year for the transplant, I have had to pay out of pocket about $400.00. Over half of my meds are $0 with my tacrolimus*anti-rejection) and Jardiance being the most at about $20/month. I take 12 different meds a day -23 pills (inclides OTC stuff). Several are $0. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 12 Posted May 12 22 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: but no one would be without care. a basic level would be provided. the folks who can afford it can see those that are perceived as the best. true, it could be marketing but patients notice a difference. Go to health grades and look up your doc. The public constantly rates us which is good but can be improved.. At any rate, many factors influence recruitment: quality of care and thus quality of colleagues, lifestyle, autonomy, pay etc..the small hospital i mentioned and I recruited several great docs to my practice. Ah, the good old days. People motivated solely by pay may choose a less desirable location that's willing to pay more. Different corporate systems have different reputations largely based on how they prioritize true quality. You’re just advocating for a system that benefits the wealthy at the expense of the average Joe. Don’t we have that already? If we’re looking for government intervention to fix a broken system, why not rip the bandaid off and get a system that truly benefits all. In a perfect world, the requirement is that a physician/specialty take all comers at the same fee for service. In a slightly less perfect world, there is a minimum requirement to treat avg folk say 50% of the time on a fee schedule basis. Save the boutique stuff for plastic surgery and elective surgery.
The Frankish Reich Posted May 12 Posted May 12 22 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: You seem to have studied this. What is the enforcement mechanism?
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 26 minutes ago, Wacka said: I am on Medicare and Medicaid in NY. With the costs over $600k last year for the transplant, I have had to pay out of pocket about $400.00. Over half of my meds are $0 with my tacrolimus*anti-rejection) and Jardiance being the most at about $20/month. I take 12 different meds a day -23 pills (inclides OTC stuff). Several are $0. yup. medicaid is the best insurance you can't buy. An insurance agent told me that when I recently signed up for medicare. Got a D plan, a prescription plan and Dental/eye. If I had medicaid secondary, I wouldn't be paying for those. And that's how it should be but someone is paying for your care. wanna guess who? 29 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Of course the did. Oz is almost as big a conman as donnie. RFK is nuts...
Big Blitz Posted May 12 Author Posted May 12 7 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: You seem to have studied this. What is the enforcement mechanism? HHS - a socialist entity - will oversee it. You will be allowed (because this is all socialist) to have more options directly from manufacturers who will be “forced” (because we’re a socialist country) to keep prices in line with foreign countries. Thank you big government uni party for giving the government all this authority. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 (edited) 38 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: You’re just advocating for a system that benefits the wealthy at the expense of the average Joe. Don’t we have that already? If we’re looking for government intervention to fix a broken system, why not rip the bandaid off and get a system that truly benefits all. In a perfect world, the requirement is that a physician/specialty take all comers at the same fee for service. In a slightly less perfect world, there is a minimum requirement to treat avg folk say 50% of the time on a fee schedule basis. Save the boutique stuff for plastic surgery and elective surgery. I took all comers. I would not have liked being forced to. FREEDOM! what is it with principle and you guys? I know, you don't have any. As Canada said, health care is a right. You have a bad gallbladder, we'll take it out. You need a new kidney or dialysis, no problem. You want plastic surgery or botox for your face? That's on you. And if Dr X wants a cash only biz that improves his lifestyle and income and people are willing to pay more for it, so be it.. you're turning socialist on us....Cuba is very nice this time of year. Edited May 12 by Joe Ferguson forever
The Frankish Reich Posted May 12 Posted May 12 7 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: HHS - a socialist entity - will oversee it. You will be allowed (because this is all socialist) to have more options directly from manufacturers who will be “forced” (because we’re a socialist country) to keep prices in line with foreign countries. Thank you big government uni party for giving the government all this authority. Well, I guess you’re right, they’re competing on who can be the most socialist here. Does this allow importation of gray market drugs? Not that I can see. So what if Novo Nordisk says no, we’re not gonna sell Ozempic for $50/month (what it costs in France) in the US? Will it be embargoed? What happens? I do see room for a vigorous FTC to file suit. Is there price fixing, or is it just dumb luck that Wegovy, Ozempic, Mounjaro, Zepbound all cost pretty much the same but compounding pharmacies can make and sell it for a fraction of the price? But you’ve got to prove collusion, and that ain’t easy when Big Pharma has the resources they do. So will I (well, my fat cousin) be able to get Ozempic for $50/month next month? Something makes me think “no.”
TH3 Posted May 12 Posted May 12 8 hours ago, SCBills said: FYI - Please refer to the part of my post that discusses EO vs Legislation. I specifically stated that, regardless of how one feels about this EO, it will have popular public support. The rest of your post is just Trump hating. Who knows if the India/Pakistan ceasefire holds, but at least the WH got involved and seems to have made the situation a bit better. Those like you were accusing them of having no handle on the situation just hours prior to the announcement. I’ve mentioned multiple times that I’m on the fence about tariffs, but the China 90 day deal is objectively a good news cycle. Regardless of us going scorched earth on all countries, China NEEDED to be the one country we did do this with and Trump is the only one to actually try it. Oh, sorry.. Now we’re mad at Trump for taking 5 months to get a hostage released that would’ve never happened under Biden or Harris? Ok. Dude. EO s are not actual accomplishments Dropping Tariffs from 145 to 30 not an actual accomplishment Ukraine is in WORSE position that pre 47 Got a hostage released ? KUDOS. The Israel Gaza situation is a freaking MESS ….tell me how dt is gonna cement peace for the future between those 2 parties…his solution is ethnic ckeansing then condos yes. I absolutely hate dt …he is setting this country back in so many ways so quickly…. 1 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 (edited) 9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Well, I guess you’re right, they’re competing on who can be the most socialist here. Does this allow importation of gray market drugs? Not that I can see. So what if Novo Nordisk says no, we’re not gonna sell Ozempic for $50/month (what it costs in France) in the US? Will it be embargoed? What happens? I do see room for a vigorous FTC to file suit. Is there price fixing, or is it just dumb luck that Wegovy, Ozempic, Mounjaro, Zepbound all cost pretty much the same but compounding pharmacies can make and sell it for a fraction of the price? But you’ve got to prove collusion, and that ain’t easy when Big Pharma has the resources they do. So will I (well, my fat cousin) be able to get Ozempic for $50/month next month? Something makes me think “no.” I'm guessing "no". Lily just won a huge head to head trial against the other weight loss drugs in the class for weight loss. The stock should be soaring. But it hasn't dropped precipitously. I think the traders have an idea what the deal will be. Eli Lilly and Company NYSE: LLY 755.57 Add to watchlist +21 (+2.86%) At close:4:00 PM EDT Edited May 12 by Joe Ferguson forever
The Frankish Reich Posted May 12 Posted May 12 Well, the markets are certainly calling bs on this latest EO: https://www.investors.com/news/technology/drug-prices-most-favored-nations-pharmaceutical-stocks/ All bark, no bite. Honestly, it's just government by press release. Nothing here is enforceable. Any fool who tweeted "we finally got Big Pharma" should slink away in shame. Won't get fooled again. Except they always are. 1 1 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 (edited) 10 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Well, the markets are certainly calling bs on this latest EO: https://www.investors.com/news/technology/drug-prices-most-favored-nations-pharmaceutical-stocks/ All bark, no bite. Honestly, it's just government by press release. Nothing here is enforceable. Any fool who tweeted "we finally got Big Pharma" should slink away in shame. Won't get fooled again. Except they always are. Amgen makes mostly very expensive recombinant DNA drugs. Very useful but very expensive. and mostly one of a kind. the fact it's up today is significant. https://www.amgen.com/stories/2025/04/driving-drug-design-using-dna-encoded-libraries https://www.si.edu/spotlight/birth-of-biotech/recombinant-drugs Edited May 12 by Joe Ferguson forever
The Frankish Reich Posted May 12 Posted May 12 Yep. As everyone actually reads the EO and processes what's happened, it's a big nothingburger. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted May 12 Posted May 12 1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said: Yep. As everyone actually reads the EO and processes what's happened, it's a big nothingburger. Maybe. We need to see the details...just like the UK tariff deal and the China deal.
Recommended Posts