Coaching Poll

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Well, nothing we say on this fan message board matters or affects anything really. We dont need to be thinking realistically since message board chatter isnt reality.

 

True, but discussions we've had on this board have turned into reality in the past. We discussed WR options available mid-season (Cooper) and that's who they ended up bringing on board.  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

 

True, but discussions we've had on this board have turned into reality in the past. We discussed WR options available mid-season (Cooper) and that's who they ended up bringing on board.  

 

Yeah but not because of us.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Well, I am not sure why we take cook out.  If you take Henry out the Ravens, decline, if you Barkley out the Eagles decline.  

Which teams do you think have a better combo of Oline, QBing and Skill players.  It is not clear to me, but it seems to be clear to you. I am willing to be convinced. 

 

Lions, Eagles, Ravens are the three that spring to mind. And our skill players are comfortably the weakest of those, Josh is doing a lot of heavy lifting in those comparators. 

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah but not because of us.

Didn't say it was because of us.  I said we were discussing viable options that were in the realm of possibility, which ended up happening.

 

McD getting canned isn't.  It's venting frustrations, which is fine, but needs to be recognized for what it really is.

 

 

[GerstAusGosheim]

3 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Where's the option to not let his stupid ass back on the team plane? 

 

Every year it's the same garbage with his defense in the playoffs.

 

0-4 Bills. Sean’s made us a laughing stock again.

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Only way to get to where you want is to get over that hump and beat KC when it matters most. MCD has had 4 cracks at it and nothing seems to be changing. Also think any coach could win with Josh Allen, just a matter to what extent. Maybe you take a few steps back, chance are we ain’t going back to being irrelevant as long as he is taking snaps. 

With Josh Allen, any coach could win the East and 1-2 playoff games. We need to take the next step before Allen leaves his prime. Sean has proven over and over he ain’t it.

[Chaos]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Lions, Eagles, Ravens are the three that spring to mind. And our skill players are comfortably the weakest of those, Josh is doing a lot of heavy lifting in those comparators. 

Allen gap to Goff is substantial.  I think it beats out the other components. 
With the addition of Barkley, they Eagles may be stronger
Ravens I think are only comparable, not better.

Just not clear, I can the GM for having the fourth best offensive set of personnel.

The problem clearly is on defense against top teams.  I can't find a way to blame this on beane, unless someone confirms, that McDermott and Beane are not aligned on the prototype. 

[Saint Doug]

There’s only one coach I would even consider replacing McD: Hoodie. He’s the only coach that can go head to head with Reid. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

I’m surprised by all the McD hate today. Mainly because I don’t think he did anything yesterday deserving of it.

 

We're so conditioned to him making a terrible blunder that we praise him when he doesn't.

 

Chiefs hadn’t scored over 30 all season until last night—averaging 24. Until they met Sean's D in the playoffs.

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Didn't say it was because of us.  I said we were discussing viable options that were in the realm of possibility, which ended up happening.

 

McD getting canned isn't.  It's venting frustrations, which is fine, but needs to be recognized for what it really is.

 

 

 

I'll let you know when I start the collection for the billboard

[Chaos]

Fairly even split so far 84/148 to move on 82/184 to stay the course.  ( removed other from the numerator and denominator)

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

I'm in the boat that says if Pegula fires McD (which isn't going to happen) who are we replacing him with?  What established coach is out there you want to bring in and is a good fit for the Bills?  Nobody that I'm aware of.  We'd be rolling the dice on guy with little to no HC experience hoping he works out.

 

Well, as makes sense, it's best to move when there's a great candidate available.  Ben Johnson has been that guy, but now he's off the table.  

 

it's never best to wait until your hand is forced.  Be proactive and make a move while the best and better options are available.  

 

In Johnson's case that ship has sailed as is said.  

 

 

[GerstAusGosheim]

2 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

Come on, Chaos!  You're better than that...

 

Such an awful poll, options, clearly designed to be ultra negative, with comically worded choices for those who feel differently than you.

 

You have created a hater thread here, and that is what it will become.

 

This is completely false. The opposite, is true, actually. 5 positive options to keep Sean. 2 neutral versions to get rid of him. Nothing that actually reflects what half of this board is thinking. Get rid of him now before he wastes another year of Josh's prime.

 

 

 

 

[Billz4ever]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'll let you know when I start the collection for the billboard

 

LMAO, I'd chip in but I don't know how much Terry would care unless we put if right outside his house.

[Peace Frog]

4 hours ago, Chaos said:

Trying to be fair. Losing in the championship game hardly means it was a bad season. 

On the other hand, never getting further than the championship game with the best QB in franchise history in seven seasons is disappointing. 

 

Which poll choice comes closest to your viewpoint at this time?

I'm a Josh homer; he's the best QB this franchise has ever seen.  However, even after all of the BS during the game of questionable play calls, officiating, etc., we still had an opportunity to win it.  If Norwood makes the FG, we beat the Giants in SB25, even after all of the missed tackles, poor run defense, etc.  If we squib kick it, there probably is no 13 seconds loss to talk about. 

When we had 3:33 left in the game, all three timeouts, and a chance to go up by 4 points while eating up the clock with our run game, I told my wife "Here's your chance to be the game-winning hero, Josh."  Failure.  Say all you want about the Worthy catch/non-catch, missed 4th down play, porous defense; we still had a chance to win the game and our offense couldn't get it done. 

28 minutes ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

 

0-4 Bills. Sean’s made us a laughing stock again.

With Josh Allen, any coach could win the East and 1-2 playoff games. We need to take the next step before Allen leaves his prime. Sean has proven over and over he ain’t it.

Josh had his chance with 3 minutes to go.  He couldn't get it done. We watched the same game; on our last possession, he threw a ball to where he thought Shakir was going to go, didn't scramble straight ahead when it was there, and didn't recognize a corner blitz that hurried his throw to Kincaid.  

I'm not saying this is all his fault, but he is certainly not blameless.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They are joined at the hip. But at the moment if there is something driving me to move on it is their personnel decision making not their coaching decision making. On the bolded I just disagree. Our skill players on offense are still at best middle of the league and if you take Cook out then well below that. They performed as they did in year because Josh and Joe raised the level. As Beane always says how you lose your last game shows your weaknesses, ours are when we need to go downfield aggressively we find it a challenge. 

 

One comment on the skill position players, or skill players as you put it, doesn't it make sense to play your best players more often?  

 

Shakir is easily our best WR.  Yet his snap count is barely over 50%.  Why?  The short answer is because the current philosophy is to rotate the skill-position players, much as they do on the DL.  That's clearly by design.  The entire "everyone eats" philosophy deliberately means that non one gets significantly more ops than anyone else.  The reasons why can be argued, but among them could very well be that they don't want to have another Diggs situation where one WR commands more targets than others.  Obviously the merits of that are entirely debatable.  

 

Chase and Jefferson for Cincy and Minny respectively were at 93%.  St. Brown 88%.   Even the rookie McConkey was at 73% which increased throughout the season meaning that it was much higher once he hit steady-state.  

 

This methodology kills me.  Shakir easily could have been in the top-10, maybe even top-5 given Allen.  But that's not the approach we want.  Maybe they don't want to have to pay WRs and hence the philosophy, which sounds idiotic if true.  

 

What's odd is that Hollins had the highest snap-count among our WRs, over 10% greater than Shakir or Coleman, yet his receiving total was less than half of what Shakir's was and about 2/3 of what the rookie Coleman's was.  

 

It would have been interesting to see how we'd have performed had Shakir gotten 90% snaps and Coleman with 80%+.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Allen gap to Goff is substantial.  I think it beats out the other components. 
With the addition of Barkley, they Eagles may be stronger
Ravens I think are only comparable, not better.

Just not clear, I can the GM for having the fourth best offensive set of personnel.

The problem clearly is on defense against top teams.  I can't find a way to blame this on beane, unless someone confirms, that McDermott and Beane are not aligned on the prototype. 

 

But it isn't the 4th best set of skill position players and two years in a row, whatever the failings on defense, and I agree there many (some of those are personnel as well by the way), the offense has had the ball at the end with a chance to win the game. When you have an elite QB you are supposed to win from there, regardless of what has happened in the previous 56/57 minutes. Now why haven't we? I don't think Josh is the reason. I do think what is around him is. 

 

What Beane is to blame for is screwing up the first round of the draft three years running. 

[Chaos]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

One comment on the skill position players, or skill players as you put it, doesn't it make sense to play your best players more often?  

 

Shakir is easily our best WR.  Yet his snap count is barely over 50%.  Why?  The short answer is because the current philosophy is to rotate the skill-position players, much as they do on the DL.  That's clearly by design.  The entire "everyone eats" philosophy deliberately means that non one gets significantly more ops than anyone else.  The reasons why can be argued, but among them could very well be that they don't want to have another Diggs situation where one WR commands more targets than others.  Obviously the merits of that are entirely debatable.  

 

Chase and Jefferson for Cincy and Minny respectively were at 93%.  St. Brown 88%.   Even the rookie McConkey was at 73% which increased throughout the season meaning that it was much higher once he hit steady-state.  

 

This methodology kills me.  Shakir easily could have been in the top-10, maybe even top-5 given Allen.  But that's not the approach we want.  Maybe they don't want to have to pay WRs and hence the philosophy, which sounds idiotic if true.  

 

What's odd is that Hollins had the highest snap-count among our WRs, over 10% greater than Shakir or Coleman, yet his receiving total was less than half of what Shakir's was and about 2/3 of what the rookie Coleman's was.  

 

It would have been interesting to see how we'd have performed had Shakir gotten 90% snaps and Coleman with 80%+.  

 

 

 

It has seemed to me for some time that Coach McDermott wants to win "his way" with "his guys"  and his is less interested in simply finding a way to win.  

Just now, GunnerBill said:

ut it isn't the 4th best set of skill position players and two years in a row

this is not what I said.  I said  fourth best offensive set of personnel. This includes QB and linemen. 
 

 

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

What Beane is to blame for is screwing up the first round of the draft three years running. 

that is a fair criticism.  

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

One comment on the skill position players, or skill players as you put it, doesn't it make sense to play your best players more often?  

 

Shakir is easily our best WR.  Yet his snap count is barely over 50%.  Why?  The short answer is because the current philosophy is to rotate the skill-position players, much as they do on the DL.  That's clearly by design.  The entire "everyone eats" philosophy deliberately means that non one gets significantly more ops than anyone else.  The reasons why can be argued, but among them could very well be that they don't want to have another Diggs situation where one WR commands more targets than others.  Obviously the merits of that are entirely debatable.  

 

Chase and Jefferson for Cincy and Minny respectively were at 93%.  St. Brown 88%.   Even the rookie McConkey was at 73% which increased throughout the season meaning that it was much higher once he hit steady-state.  

 

This methodology kills me.  Shakir easily could have been in the top-10, maybe even top-5 given Allen.  But that's not the approach we want.  Maybe they don't want to have to pay WRs and hence the philosophy, which sounds idiotic if true.  

 

What's odd is that Hollins had the highest snap-count among our WRs, over 10% greater than Shakir or Coleman, yet his receiving total was less than half of what Shakir's was and about 2/3 of what the rookie Coleman's was.  

 

It would have been interesting to see how we'd have performed had Shakir gotten 90% snaps and Coleman with 80%+.  

 

 

 

So part of the answer to that is they run the most extra OL and still a fair amount of legit two tight end (Kincaid and Knox) and when you do that it is your slot receiver that suffers snaps wise. Shakir can't play wide. He is slot only. While his overall snap count is barely over 50% he played 72.5% of the Bills passing snaps that Josh Allen took (i.e. excluding week 18 with Mitch) and if you remove the passing snaps in the game Khalil missed at Houston he is actually at 76.5% for the year which is right in the range you'd want. I disagree that he could have been a top 10 or top 5 receiver though. Shakir is who he is. A nice complimentary player. The numbers he put up this year - 800 yards 4 touchdowns - that is basically who he is IMO. 

 

On why Hollins had the highest snap count among our receivers, that's easy. He plays outside so doesn't lose snaps to Anderson and/or Kincaid and Knox and he was the only receiver healthy all year and who played all 20 games (17 regular season and 3 post). He is actually slightly behind Shakir on passing down usage in games with with Josh at 67%. 

 

I don't think the rotation is about everybody eats (with the exception of Cooper who they definitely only ran a limited package for) so much as it is about the Bills being one of the more formationally diverse offenses in the league this year. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Chaos said:

 

this is not what I said.  I said  fourth best offensive set of personnel. This includes QB and linemen. 

 

I know but two years in a row with the season on the line Josh has to throw it to someone. It can't be himself and it can't be Spencer Brown. 

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So part of the answer to that is they run the most extra OL and still a fair amount of legit two tight end (Kincaid and Knox) and when you do that it is your slot receiver that suffers snaps wise. Shakir can't play wide. He is slot only. While his overall snap count is barely over 50% he played 72.5% of the Bills passing snaps that Josh Allen took (i.e. excluding week 18 with Mitch) and if you remove the passing snaps in the game Khalil missed at Houston he is actually at 76.5% for the year which is right in the range you'd want. I disagree that he could have been a top 10 or top 5 receiver though. Shakir is who he is. A nice complimentary player. The numbers he put up this year - 800 yards 4 touchdowns - that is basically who he is IMO. 

 

On why Hollins had the highest snap count among our receivers, that's easy. He plays outside so doesn't lose snaps to Anderson and/or Kincaid and Knox and he was the only receiver healthy all year and who played all 20 games (17 regular season and 3 post). He is actually slightly behind Shakir on passing down usage in games with with Josh at 67%. 

 

I don't think the rotation is about everybody eats (with the exception of Cooper who they definitely only ran a limited package for) so much as it is about the Bills being one of the more formationally diverse offenses in the league this year. 

 

 

 

I know but two years in a row with the season on the line Josh has to throw it to someone. It can't be himself and it can't be Spencer Brown. 

I agree with that observation.  But the beginning of this discussion is whether or not it is a coaching issue or a personnel issue.  

This is the personnel set that overwhelmed us yesterday:



Do you think the Chiefs would do worse against our defens, with our offensive personnel? Real question. 

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I agree with that observation.  But the beginning of this discussion is whether or not it is a coaching issue or a personnel issue.  

This is the personnel set that overwhelmed us yesterday:


Do you think the Chiefs would do worse against our defens, with our offensive personnel? Real question. 

 

On the bolded - two points:

 

1. I have been clear part of the reason they did well against us in the first half in particular was because we tried to man up and that's hard when you are at a huge speed disadvantage which the Bills DBs were. Once we went to much more zone defense in the 2nd half the Chiefs found it harder. 

 

2. But if you are asking me do I think Coleman and Hollins in the same situation get the same separation as Worthy and Hollywood in particular? No, I don't. So in that sense, yes, they'd do worse.

 

I don't think the Chiefs receivers are fantastic by any means but it is no surprise they have improved offensively since getting Hollywood healthy and since Worthy started figuring things out. Because before that they were having the exact same issues as us - struggled separating. They brought Hopkins in and it didn't really help because at this stage of his career he doesn't separate. Hollins made two great contested grabs on darts from Josh yesterday but as I said all offseason... contested catches are a hard way to make a living consistently as an offense in the NFL. Separation is king. 

 

Edited January 27 by GunnerBill