The Frankish Reich Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 100% tariff on all auto imports! Last year, 59% of U.S. car sales were imported from abroad. How would you like to pay a cool $50,000 more on a new Audi? OK, so maybe just Mexican imports? Oh, let's just violate the US-CAN-MEX (new NAFTA treaty) and start a nice little trade war. That's the big beautiful future Trump wants for you and me. Oh, but that wouldn't cause U.S.-produced auto prices to go up, you say? Well, then you failed Economics. Meanwhile, Trump is starting to think about his new administration. He doesn't like Jerome Powell at the Fed anymore (he appointed him, but of course, that's Trump for you). He kind of likes Arthur Laffer of Reagan "Laffer Curve" supply side fame and pseudo-economist Stephen Moore of former Wall Street Journal editorial fame. Let's see what they have to say about tariffs, shall we? https://www.wsj.com/economy/trump-economic-advisers-float-three-names-for-fed-chair-e3b694d8?mod=hp_lead_pos2 Moore and Laffer co-founded a group called the Committee to Unleash Prosperity along with Steve Forbes, the chairman of Forbes Media. The group advocates for a stable dollar, low taxes, low or no tariffs, limited spending and the repeal of many regulations. Good to see Trump is still a stable genius "effin' moron" as one of his former Cabinet members said. Tariffs are taxes on the American consumer. He is talking about a ridiculously confiscatory tax on U.S. auto sales that would distort the market and cause a collapse in new auto sales. And meanwhile, he is talking about appointing Reaganites who devoted their careers to advocating against such taxes. So all you Trumpies tell me: tariffs are good now? It's now o.k. to love those taxes? How high is too high? Why stop at automobiles? Why not ban imports of all consumer goods? Edited March 18 by The Frankish Reich 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 The people that support the dude with a partial embargo on a country were told a talking point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Being against tariffs is telling your working class, oftentimes (in auto) union, countrymen that they should have to compete with companies utilizing slave labor costs. And I don’t know if you noticed, but new auto sales year to year were down in January, despite lower prices and ample supply. Maybe because people can’t afford food and homes now. Go figure. Turbo-capitalism is a sin. Repent. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 Just now, LeviF said: Turbo-capitalism is a sin So you're just kind of a little bit of a socialist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: So you're just kind of a little bit of a socialist. Not controlling the means of production. But protecting domestic production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: So you're just kind of a little bit of a socialist. Depends on what you mean by “socialist.” But depending on the context, the situation, etc. that would not be inaccurate. The Marxist sense is obviously horrible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Do I hear 200? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: 100% tariff on all auto imports! Last year, 59% of U.S. car sales were imported from abroad. How would you like to pay a cool $50,000 more on a new Audi? OK, so maybe just Mexican imports? Oh, let's just violate the US-CAN-MEX (new NAFTA treaty) and start a nice little trade war. That's the big beautiful future Trump wants for you and me. Oh, but that wouldn't cause U.S.-produced auto prices to go up, you say? Well, then you failed Economics. Meanwhile, Trump is starting to think about his new administration. He doesn't like Jerome Powell at the Fed anymore (he appointed him, but of course, that's Trump for you). He kind of likes Arthur Laffer of Reagan "Laffer Curve" supply side fame and pseudo-economist Stephen Moore of former Wall Street Journal editorial fame. Let's see what they have to say about tariffs, shall we? https://www.wsj.com/economy/trump-economic-advisers-float-three-names-for-fed-chair-e3b694d8?mod=hp_lead_pos2 Moore and Laffer co-founded a group called the Committee to Unleash Prosperity along with Steve Forbes, the chairman of Forbes Media. The group advocates for a stable dollar, low taxes, low or no tariffs, limited spending and the repeal of many regulations. Good to see Trump is still a stable genius "effin' moron" as one of his former Cabinet members said. Tariffs are taxes on the American consumer. He is talking about a ridiculously confiscatory tax on U.S. auto sales that would distort the market and cause a collapse in new auto sales. And meanwhile, he is talking about appointing Reaganites who devoted their careers to advocating against such taxes. So all you Trumpies tell me: tariffs are good now? It's now o.k. to love those taxes? How high is too high? Why stop at automobiles? Why not ban imports of all consumer goods? It’s incredible that anyone still treats Laffer as anything but a joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Are their really people outside the MAGA 'if he says it, then it must be great' gang that believe that other countries would just say, aww shucks we have to pay a tariff now, and comply without retaliation? We get a RIDICULOUS amount of our goods from other countries. If you think inflation is bad, try on a trade war for size in the middle of it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 29 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: It’s incredible that anyone still treats Laffer as anything but a joke. Laffer was always more of a self-promoter than thinker. There was a core idea (that originated with others, despite being called The Laffer Curve) that was obviously correct: there is some marginal rate of taxation at which tax collections actually begin to fall because ultra-high marginal tax rates discourage productivity. So yeah, let's keep that principle in mind, and also keep in mind that the point of progressive taxation should not be to maximize government tax collections. But that's about all there is to it. And with respect to tariffs: well, Laffer is consistent there, and so he's never thought substituting tariffs for other forms of taxes will work any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said: Laffer was always more of a self-promoter than thinker. There was a core idea (that originated with others, despite being called The Laffer Curve) that was obviously correct: there is some marginal rate of taxation at which tax collections actually begin to fall because ultra-high marginal tax rates discourage productivity. So yeah, let's keep that principle in mind, and also keep in mind that the point of progressive taxation should not be to maximize government tax collections. But that's about all there is to it. And with respect to tariffs: well, Laffer is consistent there, and so he's never thought substituting tariffs for other forms of taxes will work any better. These guys are going to defend whatever the guy, who prefers his briefings in pictures, no matter what his position is. trump likely doesn't research anything. He just thinks of things his base would like him to say, and says it. CHINA TARIFFS!, and they cheer. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 Just now, daz28 said: These guys are going to defend whatever the guy, who prefers his briefings in pictures, no matter what his position is. trump likely doesn't research anything. He just thinks of things his base would like him to say, and says it. CHINA TARIFFS!, and they cheer. Simple as that. I just looked back to see what he's said about tariffs since he first came down that escalator in 2015. Good luck finding any consistency. He just throws out numbers: ten percent! thirty-five percent! as high a tariff on them as they put on us, plus ten percent! I understand campaign rhetoric, but at some time it has to translate into policy if you are going to, you know, actually govern. And you'll never get that from Trump. You'll get "you implemented my policy but you should have known that it wouldn't work ... you're fired." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Here, you guys figure this out: 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 13 minutes ago, US Egg said: Here, you guys figure this out: Sure, a trade war would hurt China's economy more than ours, but that's asking the wrong question. The real question is, which populace is going to handle the economic fallout of a trade war. Authoritarian China, or the US who's already clamoring over inflation? The stupid tariffs should never been started, and Biden should have cancelled them. What we need to keep doing is investing in America internally, like Biden is already doing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Trillion dollar hand outs to donors isn't investing. And it's driving inflation. 7.2 trillion dollar budget. Lmao. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 What this topic started as. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 7 hours ago, daz28 said: We get a RIDICULOUS amount of our goods from other countries. Maybe it’s time to change that. Unfortunately we don’t seem to currently (or recently) have anyone with the political will to do so. On 3/19/2020 at 9:37 AM, LeviF said: ANY multinational corp that comes to Congress asking for taxpayer money during the coming economic crisis should be taken to task over this and given strict conditions involving the moving of these supply chains and jobs back to the USA, with severe penalties for executives that violate these conditions. I'm not talking fines, I'm talking dragged to the public square with a hood over their head. Was a COVID-related post but the spirit applies. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 More taxes? Free trade is the way to go. What happens when other nations do the same? We will be poorer, have fewer options to buy, and of course things will cost more. What a stupid idea 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 I can get a really good 75 inch TV for about $500 today. Viva Free Trade! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 34 minutes ago, Tiberius said: More taxes? Free trade is the way to go. What happens when other nations do the same? We will be poorer, have fewer options to buy, and of course things will cost more. What a stupid idea So, places like China, India, Mexico don't put any tariffs on products from the USA? No free trade deal has full free trade of all sectors. every country has some forms of protections in them. And if not, you get things like the farmers protest we have seen in EU and India the last few months. Why did the current bag of mush keep most trumps tariffs on China active? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 12 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: So, places like China, India, Mexico don't put any tariffs on products from the USA? No free trade deal has full free trade of all sectors. every country has some forms of protections in them. And if not, you get things like the farmers protest we have seen in EU and India the last few months. Why did the current bag of mush keep most trumps tariffs on China active? So do we, why have more? Why do you want to raise taxes more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 To Protect the US auto industry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 3 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: To Protect the US auto industry. Serious question: why does it need protection? https://corporate.ford.com/operations/locations/global-plants.html https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-manufacturing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 5 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Serious question: why does it need protection? https://corporate.ford.com/operations/locations/global-plants.html https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-manufacturing/ Are you for real. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the auto industry employed an average of 4,364,800 people in 2022. These plants being built in Mexico are being championed as fully autonomous. Remotely programmed and updated by low wage it workers (Wipro) in India. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 7 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Serious question: why does it need protection? https://corporate.ford.com/operations/locations/global-plants.html https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-manufacturing/ Oh for *****'s sake. Lordstown, the FIRST GM US plant listed there, was abandoned by GM in 2019. *It* doesn't need protection. Your love for $500 TVs over your countrymen is noted. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 Just now, Tommy Callahan said: Are you for real. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the auto industry employed an average of 4,364,800 people in 2022. These plants being built in Mexico are being championed as fully autonomous. Remotely programmed and updated by low wage it workers (Wipro) in India. Look at the links I gave you. Ford and GM are international automakers. Yes, even in China through joint manufacturing agreements. And if we simply can't seem to produce competitive automobiles in America, well, then maybe our comparative advantage is no longer in automobile production and propping up a domestic industry through hidden subsidies (tariffs) or express ones (the Obama bailout) is kind of a ... wait a minute, I'm thinking ... still thinking ... aha! got it! ... a SOCIALIST idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 50 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Why did the current bag of mush keep most trumps tariffs on China active? Because he's stupid, too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Look at the links I gave you. Ford and GM are international automakers. Yes, even in China through joint manufacturing agreements. And if we simply can't seem to produce competitive automobiles in America, well, then maybe our comparative advantage is no longer in automobile production and propping up a domestic industry through hidden subsidies (tariffs) or express ones (the Obama bailout) is kind of a ... wait a minute, I'm thinking ... still thinking ... aha! got it! ... a SOCIALIST idea. It's controlling the means of production for an industry? And is that why it's so effed up and over priced in this country? You know Ford and gm can't sell to the China market unless they are made in china. Not in say Vietnam where labor is even less, then to the China market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Are you for real. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the auto industry employed an average of 4,364,800 people in 2022. These plants being built in Mexico are being championed as fully autonomous. Remotely programmed and updated by low wage it workers (Wipro) in India. So how long do you expect tariffs to keep automation from happening? Do you realize horse ranchers probably were saying tariffs for automobiles at one point? How'd that work out? So not only will the consumer be paying more for "hand-made" cars, but also paying a tariff on it? You'd be a great businessman. Edited March 18 by daz28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 minutes ago, daz28 said: So how long do you expect tariffs to keep automation from happening? Do you realize horse ranchers probably were saying tariffs for automobiles at one point? How'd that work out? So not only will the consumer be paying more for "hand-made" cars, but also paying a tariff on it? You'd be a great businessman. It's not binary. And then a bunch of straw men. Horse ranchers? Who said hand made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 15 minutes ago, LeviF said: Oh for *****'s sake. Lordstown, the FIRST GM US plant listed there, was abandoned by GM in 2019. *It* doesn't need protection. Your love for $500 TVs over your countrymen is noted. They can learn to code. There you have it. Some good old fashioned Republican sentiment. 5 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: It's not binary. And then a bunch of straw men. Horse ranchers? Who said hand made? Always wondered if you were non-binary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 31 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: To Protect the US auto industry. Remember what type of cars they made before the tariffs were relaxed? Ford Pinto? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: It's not binary. And then a bunch of straw men. Horse ranchers? Who said hand made? You're just not smart enough to get it. I should have known. I remember the Jetsons, when we dreamed about robots making cars. Now you're arguing that we won't have jobs if machines make the cars. LOL Edited March 18 by daz28 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 20 minutes ago, LeviF said: Lordstown, the FIRST GM US plant listed there Let me pour a 40 on the Chevy Vega's grave. The plant's initial products were Chevrolet's full-size lineup (Caprice, Impala, Bel Air, Biscayne), then America's best-selling vehicle, as well as the first generation Pontiac Firebird. The Firebird and Chevrolet's full-size models would be moved to other plants by 1971, when the plant added conversion van production and began production of the Chevrolet Vega. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: Always wondered if you were non-binary. Hmm. Usually it's general insults. Now you went with the homophobic slur? Is there something wrong with non binary people? And telling you cheerleading for the Chinese conglomerate and pooping on American workers at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 8 hours ago, LeviF said: Oh for *****'s sake. Lordstown, the FIRST GM US plant listed there, was abandoned by GM in 2019. *It* doesn't need protection. Your love for $500 TVs over your countrymen is noted. Exactly. The U.S. will gobble up $10,000 Chinese EV’s. They’re lined up at the border waiting to run amok too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 18 minutes ago, US Egg said: Exactly. The U.S. will gobble up $10,000 Chinese EV’s. They’re lined up at the border waiting to run amok too. Right. The Chinese EV will undercut and ultimately outcompete Tesla. Would I buy one? Probably. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Anybody who doesn't understand the need to enforce tariffs on countries that deliberately put US products and services at a distinct disadvantage in their domestic markets has no idea of what goes on. Trade is best when on a level field. To deny that is job market suicide. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 7 minutes ago, sherpa said: Anybody who doesn't understand the need to enforce tariffs on countries that deliberately put US products and services at a distinct disadvantage in their domestic markets has no idea of what goes on. Trade is best when on a level field. To deny that is job market suicide. Regarding trade and everything, the Left mindset is “no matter what it is, if Trump is for it, we’re against it”. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 14 minutes ago, US Egg said: Regarding trade and everything, the Left mindset is “no matter what it is, if Trump is for it, we’re against it”. The UAW is for it. I am against hiking tariffs regardless of whether they are proposed by the left or the right. Any economist would agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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