Efficient Offense Talk

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Lol

 

Way to make a completely arbitrary cutoff at last 5 games the 'only stat that matters'

 

It's called a trend and a pattern. 

 

And when you have Josh Allen and three of those teams are NE, whom you've decimated to date otherwise, the Giants, who suck, and Tampa, it's problematic.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

It's called a trend and a pattern. 

 

And when you have Josh Allen and three of those teams are NE, whom you've decimated to date otherwise, the Giants, who suck, and Tampa, it's problematic.  

 

 

Chiefs are top of the conference, have Mahomes, and have played the worst defense in the league twice in the last 5 games

 

They are averaging 20.0 ppg on offense

We are averaging 20.2

[Jrb1979]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Chiefs are top of the conference, have Mahomes, and have played the worst defense in the league twice in the last 5 games

 

They are averaging 20.0 ppg on offense

We are averaging 20.2

Difference is their elite defense is winning them games. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Difference is their elite defense is winning them games. 

yes

[PBF81]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Chiefs are top of the conference, have Mahomes, and have played the worst defense in the league twice in the last 5 games

 

They are averaging 20.0 ppg on offense

We are averaging 20.2

 

And which of KC's WRs do you consider to be something other than JAGs?  

 

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

And which of KC's WRs do you consider to be something other than JAGs?  

 

 

Travis Kelce

[PBF81]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Travis Kelce

 

He's a TE. 

 

So you'd rather Allen had Kelce and KC's WRs, than Kincaid and ours?  

 

You think that Kelce, rookie Rashee Rice, junk journeyman Justin Watson, and JAG Valdes-Scantling, along with Pacheco, are better than ...

 

Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Shakir, and Cook?  

 

Well, OK.  I'll have to strongly disagree however.  So much so that it was apparent to me anyway that KC's offense wouldn't be playing anywhere near the level that it's been prior to the season even starting as I stated numerous times here, while taking incredible heat for being a moron in that way I might add.  

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Lol

 

Way to make a completely arbitrary cutoff at last 5 games the 'only stat that matters'

They have only been struggling the last 5 games… weird I put the cut off elsewhere.

[GoBills808]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

He's a TE. 

 

So you'd rather Allen had Kelce and KC's WRs, than Kincaid and ours?  

 

You think that Kelce, rookie Rashee Rice, junk journeyman Justin Watson, and JAG Valdes-Scantling, along with Pacheco, are better than ...

 

Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Shakir, and Cook?  

 

Well, OK.  I'll have to strongly disagree however.  So much so that it was apparent to me anyway that KC's offense wouldn't be playing anywhere near the level that it's been prior to the season even starting as I stated numerous times here, while taking incredible heat for being a moron in that way I might add.  

 

 

I think it's up for debate, for the first time that Allen and Mahomes have been in the league together, as to which offense offers more support to its QB, yes.

 

 

[Mister Defense]

That attempt to be more efficient has zero to do with the move to a more efficient offense in itself, in fact, that may be one of the only good things done this year.

 

Your points are not logical.  Like M Rob said before the Tampa game on the pregame show, the loss the week before against the Pats was not a failure of Allen--there was  a lack of options for Allen when they blitzed.  It was the short, efficient game that was missing and to make it much worse, there were not the kind of in game changes needed to correct this, changes even a poor OC would make, until it was too late. Other respected analysts, including Orlosky said very similar things, such as they needed a "plan" and need one going forward.

 

The short game is where it is at for this team. Beasley was that, and that, not Diggs, started Allen on the road to superstar. It was almost always there for him, and that made the big plays with Diggs and others more possible.

 

But that opens up the long game when it is working.  But we don't have an OC who plays it like, but instead just keeps doing the same things, as if he has no clue about that simple fact.

 

Etcetera.

 

This is those saying let's just not run the ball as much!  Humorously poor logic there too.

 

Everyone will continue to play wack a mole when it comes to the offense's problems, not seeing the forest through the trees.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Mister Defense

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, ngbills said:

A lot of the talk all season has been about how efficient the offense has been. We see stats point out Josh high completion % and his QB rating. It is pointed out how many guys we have with the highest catch %. All of these efficiency metrics supposedly to show how great the offense is doing. Yet the team record, offensive production, "eye test", etc do not match this narrative. Until this week when the team has fallen to 5-4 many refused to admit the offense is an issue. 

 

I think the concept of efficiency is flawed and overhyped. You can create a efficient offense quite easily by dialing down your offense. You can create high completion %'s and high catch %'s by throwing short dump offs. Do these things translate to success? It does not appear so for the Bills. 

 

What you see is the higher number of plays to get down the field means more opportunities for setbacks. If your running 15-20 plays the odds of a sack, penalty, int or fumble all increase. This leads to more drives stalling out after moving the ball. How many times do you see the team drive to the opposing 30 and then we get a holding call that stalls the drive. A high powered offense can take the short stuff but hits the mid to deep plays as well. You cant rely on these long drives of 4 yard plays over and over again because when you get behind the sticks the D knows what your doing and that is what leads to the turnover or being stopped. The most successful big plays are usually on 1st and 10's or 2nd/3rd and shorts when the D is not expecting it. 

 

I dont know if this is a McD thing, a Dorsey thing or Bills analytics department thing. But who cares what the efficiency metrics say. This O has became way too predictable and needs to mix things up. If they cannot then a change needs to be made. 

 

This has been what I have been trying to get across all season. It's fine to take the short stuff or the "what the defense gives you" stuff once in a while but it's not going to get the job done.  Thats why the defense gives it to you.  You have to play too perfect for that to work.  One mistake ends the whole drive.  One incompletion. One stuffed run. One penalty. One sack.  That just too much to ask from Josh or any other QB.  They are behind the sticks too often.  We don't have the skillset nor is it the QBs strength to run that kind of offense.  Especially when they neuter his running.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Scott7975

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I think it's up for debate, for the first time that Allen and Mahomes have been in the league together, as to which offense offers more support to its QB, yes.

 

I'm still going to disagree, here's why.  

 

Over the past five drafts, KC has at least tried to get that support by drafting 3 WRs on days 1 or 2 of the drafts, in this case all in round 2.  We haven't drafted a single WR on days 1 or 2 on Beane's watch.  

 

We finally drafted Kincaid this year, Beane's 6th draft.  

 

So while none of their WR draftees have stepped up yet, if they even ever will, at least they've made the effort over there.  

 

Also, their OL has been notably better than ours.  I'm pretty sure Reid and Mahomes would like to have better WRs again and with Rice pending, whose having a decent albeit not superlative rookie season.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'm still going to disagree, here's why.  

 

Over the past five drafts, KC has at least tried to get that support by drafting 3 WRs on days 1 or 2 of the drafts, in this case all in round 2.  We haven't drafted a single WR on days 1 or 2 on Beane's watch.  

 

We finally drafted Kincaid this year, Beane's 6th draft.  

 

So while none of their WR draftees have stepped up yet, if they even ever will, at least they've made the effort over there.  

 

Also, their OL has been notably better than ours.  I'm pretty sure Reid and Mahomes would like to have better WRs again and with Rice pending, whose having a decent albeit not superlative rookie season.  

 

 

I'm saying KC has more, and has done more, on offensive support around their QB than the Bills so I think we agree

[Nihilarian]

How did Tom Brady get to so many Super Bowls?

 

Just by moving the chains first down after first down and then punching it in the end zone. Down after down, game after game with arguably only one really great superstar WR in Randy Moss. Although they had some extraordinary other receivers in Dion Branch, Troy Brown, Gronk, and those mega-chain movers in Wes Welker along with Julian Edelman.

 

Buffalo is using that very same scheme (Erhardt-Perkins) and when they had the Bease doing his Welker imitation they moved the chains every well. 

 

The Bills might have that mega-chain mover already in Dalton Kincade along with Shakir, Harty, or Sherfield but the WRs need to see the ball more. Can't get 10 yards in 3 tries?

 

Sherfield has only seen 10 targets with 7 receptions 70%. Harty has seen 17 targets and 13 receptions 76.5% SHAKIR, 19 targets 18 receptions for a 94.7% YOWIE! 

Kincade had 45 targets, and 40 receptions for 88.9 %. These numbers are for the entire season so far!

 

I look at those numbers and ask why isn't Shakir in the slot doing Beasley's old job in moving the chains down after down and game after game. 

 

You know, just like they did in 2021 with Diggs getting 164 targets and Bease getting 112.

 

Dorsey, don't you even see what your players are doing?