James Lindsay gives BRILLIANT speech to European Parliament on the origins of “Wokism”!

[HomeskillitMoorman]

42 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

I think the first statement is as complex as the second topic.  and trying to state its binary (better or worse) is a hard sell from our viewpoint on our ivory tower.

 

Do either of us really understand the life of a teen in the Congo working in lithium mines?  and if its better cause he can access the internet on his 4 hours off a day?

 

The untouchables in one of the fastest growing economies in the world (India)

 

Muslims/Christians in China?

 

slavery all through the middle east and Africa

 

like you mentioned before, is better just being a consumer?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course I don't understand that life of a teen in a place like the Congo or slaves anywhere or Muslims/Christians in China. But you do know varying levels of this has been happening throughout our entire human existence right? Things overall globally have NEVER been amazing, not even close. I don't think anyone here said that, you conflated that with us saying that things are about as good as they've ever been. Those are totally different statements. 

 

I'm open to hearing when a better, safer time overall in the entire world was, it's probably not provable on a more intimate scale. The mantras we hear now about living your best life or simply enjoying life or that God has an amazing plan for your life are really just from the last copule hundred years or so and that's only in the most developed countries. In most of the world's existence the goal was just purely survival. 

 

In my opinion I think all of this supports my original point on this that I don't see how "Woke" is a high priority and that the current culture war on both sides is largely driven by people who don't have real problems. 

58 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

But some people aren't interested in a rational discussion.

 

I say "the United States economy is the strongest in the world now" and they either deny that fact, or say it would be so much better if we didn't have Biden. There's not even a "yes, but ..." like "yes, but the over stimulation of the economy today will come back to haunt us tomorrow." That would be rational. 

 

They say we "hate America." But they are the ones constantly, incessantly talking about how America has turned into a trash nation. Some even say it isn't worth saving anymore, that it should be split into two. But they "love America."

 

I agree. I'm in the camp of believing these same people exist on both extreme sides. They don't see how much they're actually alike and how hypocritical they both are. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by HomeskillitMoorman

[The Frankish Reich]

5 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

Of course I don't understand that life of a teen in a place like the Congo or slaves anywhere or Muslims/Christians in China. But you do know varying levels of this has been happening throughout our entire human existence right? Things overall globally have NEVER been amazing, not even close. I don't think anyone here said that, you conflated that with us saying that things are about as good as they've ever been. Those are totally different statements. 

 

I'm open to hearing when a better, safer time overall in the entire world was, it's probably not provable on a more intimate scale. The mantras we hear now about living your best life or simply enjoying life are really just from the last couple or so hundred years and that's only in the most developed countries. In most of the world's existence the goal was just purely survival. 

 

In my opinion I think all of this supports my original point on this that I don't see how "Woke" is a high priority and that the current culture war on both sides is largely driven by people who don't have real problems. 

 

I agree. I'm in the camp of believing these same people exist on both extreme sides. They don't see how much they're actually alike and how hypocritical they both are. 

Basically full employment, a now-manageable inflation rate, and a country in which the main concern of the out party appears to be Drag Queen Story Hour? 

That's a sign that things are going o.k.

[Tommy Callahan]

12 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

Of course I don't understand that life of a teen in a place like the Congo or slaves anywhere or Muslims/Christians in China. But you do know varying levels of this has been happening throughout our entire human existence right? Things overall globally have NEVER been amazing, not even close. I don't think anyone here said that, you conflated that with us saying that things are about as good as they've ever been. Those are totally different statements. 

 

I'm open to hearing when a better, safer time overall in the entire world was, it's probably not provable on a more intimate scale. The mantras we hear now about living your best life or simply enjoying life are really just from the last couple or so hundred years and that's only in the most developed countries. In most of the world's existence the goal was just purely survival. 

 

In my opinion I think all of this supports my original point on this that I don't see how "Woke" is a high priority and that the current culture war on both sides is largely driven by people who don't have real problems. 

The links above pointing to how its better was referencing MONEY not culture or anything else.  you are the one that had the good comment above about being a scared consumer.  

 

Citizens united said corporations have free speech.  PACS were hated as the source of dirty money. now a lot of that money flows to Charities that are also PACS. the charities promote SOCIAL issues.  

 

One example could be the entire Child/trans issue.   largest charities for that narrative are Trevor project and Human rights campaign.  ever look at the funding for said groups? https://www.hrc.org/about/corporate-partners  and then the folks support the social topic.

 

Here is the list of anti-abortion "Charities"  some of them are the same charity/PAC with funding from the same quintile.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-abortion_organizations_in_the_United_States#Georgia

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Chris farley
forgot link

[HomeskillitMoorman]

3 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

The links above pointing to how its better was referencing MONEY not culture or anything else.  you are the one that had the good comment above about being a scared consumer.  

 

Citizens united said corporations have free speech.  PACS were hated as the source of dirty money. now a lot of that money flows to Charities that are also PACS. the charities promote SOCIAL issues.  

 

One example could be the entire Child/trans issue.   largest charities for that narrative are Trevor project and Human rights campaign.  ever look at the funding for said groups? https://www.hrc.org/about/corporate-partners  and then the folks support the social topic.

 

Here is the list of anti-abortion "Charities"  some of them are the same charity/PAC with funding from the same quintile.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-abortion_organizations_in_the_United_States#Georgia

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think we really disagree on any of this though. There have also been a lot of religious-based charities and churches that have been corrupt with money. 

 

I don't think this comes from one side. That's part of what I meant when I was talking about over-consumption. I mean take a look at this board, literally every topic is about attacking the other side. It's probably trite to say, but that's what "they" want. 

 

I have nothing against looking into and exposing specific corruption, I think that's a productive thing. I do believe that the whole "woke" obsession and culture war, which was what I was originally referencing here, largely isn't. 

[Tommy Callahan]

4 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

I don't think we really disagree on any of this though. There have also been a lot of religious-based charities and churches that have been corrupt with money. 

 

I don't think this comes from one side. That's part of what I meant when I was talking about over-consumption. I mean take a look at this board, literally every topic is about attacking the other side. It's probably trite to say, but that's what "they" want. 

 

I have nothing against looking into and exposing specific corruption, I think that's a productive thing. I do believe that the whole "woke" obsession and culture war, which was what I was originally referencing here, largely isn't. 

I feel as soon as people stop 100% aligning/parroting with corporate narratives, they won't be called woke.

 

I get that, its why I tossed the link of anti abortion PACS in the comment.  its all over the place. 

 

and the money that funds them doesn't care as long as the government is representative of THEM.  like it is now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Chris farley

[HomeskillitMoorman]

13 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

I feel as soon as people stop 100% aligning/parroting with corporate narratives, they won't be called woke.

 

I get that, its why I tossed the link of anti abortion PACS in the comment.  its all over the place. 

 

and the money that funds them doesn't care as long as the government is representative of THEM.  like it is now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still have to do more of a deep dive on him, but some of these reasons are why I’m kind of intrigued by RFK. He’s probably the most centrist candidate I’ve seen and he doesn’t really get deep into the culture war stuff. 
 

He has his views on certain topics pertaining to all that stuff but in the interviews I’ve seen, he touches on it and what he would do but then steers the conversation to bigger issues, such as some of what you brought up. 

[BillsFanNC]

Carlin knew a thing or two...

 

 

[JaCrispy]

5 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I take pride in having an open mind, so I did watch this video.

Lindsay is indeed far better than most of these public intellectuals of the new right. I can't really argue with anything in the first half of the video. It is a defensible take on Marx and Marx's purpose. (I will disagree, however, with the silly characterization of Marx as a "theologian" rather than an economist. True, he wasn't an economist - there really wasn't any such thing in his time, as we understand "economist" today - but calling him a theologian is just saying that anyone who envisions a better future for humanity is necessarily a religious-type leader. Which he wasn't.)

 

It goes awry in the second half. Yes, a lot of the modern "critical" studies are grounded in what academics would call "Marxian" (as opposed to "Marxist") thinking. That is, analysis of the type that couldn't be done if Marx hadn't existed, but that isn't expressly following Marx's lead. But it's way, way overwrought.

 

Example: 

Proposition: Disney supports a woke (hence Marxist) agenda, both explicitly (by criticizing Florida law) and implicitly (by putting out "entertainment" projects that undermine bourgeois values).

But: in reality, Disney is doing exactly what a Marxist believes a capitalist would do. It is "appropriating" its critics, throwing them a bone by acting all "woke" in things that don't really matter to "capital," like support of drag shows. Meanwhile, it continues to do what it does best: the "commodification of leisure." The best Marxist explanation I've ever heard was in this little rhyme from the old English (Marxist) band, Gang of Four:

 

"The problem of leisure,

What to do for pleasure."

 

Disney exists - thrives, makes tons of money - by convincing you that it's not good enough to have leisure time at home to spend eating, drinking, playing games with your family, friends, and neighbors. No! That doesn't make (much) money for anyone. You must haul the family to a designated Pleasure Location where you will spend money to have "fun," and spend even more money to cut in line ahead of the funseekers who have a little less money than you have.

 

Jim Gaffigan nails it - everyone asks him what he's doing this summer, as if "staying home, relaxing, and enjoying the fine weather" isn't enough:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jim-gaffigan-does-not-have-summer-plans/

 

You must consume their movies and TV, and then be convinced to buy their tie-in merchandise. And while there may be some concessions (appropriation?) to "woke" values, on the whole their entire operation reinforces traditional bourgeois values: family fun (which must be structured and monetized), traditional gender roles (some boys may want to be princesses, but from my experience ALL little American girls want to be princesses), etc., etc.

 

Leisure is not a wonderful outgrowth of our capitalist system that allows you to have a surplus of time to spend away from productive activity. It is a problem to be solved by a capitalist colossus like Disney (or Universal, or Apple, or Taylor Swift). Marxists call it the commodification of leisure. We can recognize that this has happened but still not agree with Marx's prescription.

 

So what I'm saying is that Lindsay is a good cultural critic himself, but that he's missing the forest for the trees.

 

Thanks for the great, well reasoned response…It’s a breath of fresh air on these boards…👍

[HomeskillitMoorman]

5 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

Carlin knew a thing or two...

 

 

 

He sure did! I agree with the one you posted, and I'll join in with more.

 

“Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're *****.”

 

― George Carlin

 

“Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!”

 

― George Carlin

[BillsFanNC]

3 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

He sure did! I agree with the one you posted, and I'll join in with more.

 

“Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're *****.”

 

― George Carlin

 

“Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!”

 

― George Carlin

 

Everything...with you...Everything comes back to anti religion. 

 

 

I think we've detected a bias!

[HomeskillitMoorman]

I'll throw in a couple more I found that I believe in:

 

“Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls. They got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying. Lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right.”

 

“Political correctness is America’s newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people’s language with strict codes and rigid rules. I’m not sure that’s the way to fight discrimination. I’m not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.”

[BillsFanNC]

6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Thanks for the great, well reasoned response…It’s a breath of fresh air on these boards…👍

 

Then why, for the love of God,  do you constantly engage with that ***** stick @BillStime?

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Then why, for the love of God,  do you constantly engage with that ***** stick @BillStime?

Awe, Karen - do you need a nap? A bottle? Maybe your favorite binkie?

 

Your tantrums are getting noticeably worse now that the Biden Crime Family and Hunter Laptop stories blew up all over you.

 

Why don’t you go back to your safe place and develop your next psyop with your besties?

 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 minute ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Everything...with you...Everything comes back to anti religion. 

 

 

I think we've detected a bias!

 

Oh there's no question that I'm anti-religion. I'm pretty sure I've been incredibly transparent about that. Literally to the point of flat-out saying it. 

 

But I don't hold that against people who choose to be religious. There are no rights I'm trying to restrict from people that are religious simply because they don't agree with me or because we don't align on our beliefs. 

 

In fact, as I said I agree that a Christian Conservative web designer should not have to take on a project for a gay wedding or that a Christian Conservative baker should not have to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

 

But as I said, I also think it's hypocritical that these same exact people expect to be served by companies that don't align with their beliefs, such as private social media platforms. Or that they believe certain books should be removed from school libraries (which I agree with) but that the Bible shouldn't. Or that they rail against books that don't have sexuality but explain how a boy can transition to a girl or a girl can transition to a boy because it's not rooted in facts...yet they want to keep a book that tells you that a woman had an IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!

 

I mean come on dude, are you really going to say you don't see these hypocrisies at all? 

 

 

[JaCrispy]

11 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Then why, for the love of God,  do you constantly engage with that ***** stick @BillStime?

I know i might be crazy…but I have hope for everyone…I’m the eternal optimist…👍

[BillStime]

 

31 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

Carlin knew a thing or two...

 

 

He sure did

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

Thanks for the great, well reasoned response…It’s a breath of fresh air on these boards…👍

Sometimes a legit discussion breaks out here...

[BillsFanNC]

"Woke is Maoism with American characteristics...."

 

🎯 

 

You want to make even a little sense of the clown world we've been witnessing in recent years?

 

Watch the video.

 

 

[TheBrownBear]

12 hours ago, BillsFanNC said:

"Woke is Maoism with American characteristics...."

 

🎯

 

You want to make even a little sense of the clown world we've been witnessing in recent years?

 

Watch the video.

 

 

James has done great work cracking the code of "wokeness" (an odd and pernicious blend of Foucault post-modernism, Black radical feminism and Maoism) but I wonder if he hasn't driven himself a little insane with this stuff over the past few years. It's reached a bit of a religious fervor for him.

 

Still, I'm glad that he gave me an understanding of the oddities I was witnessing with my wife in my own home and put her newly found catchphrases (intersectionality, praxis, radical love, embodied Social Justice, "Liberation", etc.) into a digestible context for me. 

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

James has done great work cracking the code of "wokeness" (an odd and pernicious blend of Foucault post-modernism, Black radical feminism and Maoism) but I wonder if he hasn't driven himself a little insane with this stuff over the past few years. It's reached a bit of a religious fervor for him.

 

Still, I'm glad that he gave me an understanding of the oddities I was witnessing with my wife in my own home and put her newly found catchphrases (intersectionality, praxis, radical love, embodied Social Justice, "Liberation", etc.) into a digestible context for me. 

Sorry to hear that about your wife…