Bill from NYC Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Revisionist history. It's never wrong . No top 10 pick is worth the $$ . The NFL teams are forced to overpay for unproven talent. The same time Brady was being selected in the 6th round, Bob Kraft was giving Drew Bledsoe a $102 Million contract. I'm not down on TD for overpaying Mike Williams. I'm upset because he bought into the Bledsoe fraud the the Pats were trying to unload... Then paid him outrageous $$ for 3 years. When he had a chance to unload him after 2004 without a cap hit, he extended him and paid him close to 9 Mil in 2004.... Mike Williams had a far better year than Bledsoe in 2004, who's dead cap hit is 4.3 Mil. We could have used that $$ for a top UFA or towards resigning Nate. Mike Williams has his best football in front of him ( not behind him ). 331339[/snapback] >>>No top 10 pick is worth the $$ . The NFL teams are forced to overpay for unproven talent.<<< Orlando Pace, a first selection, took away ANY fear of a blindside pass rush and enabled an Arena League castoff to lead his team to a superbowl. Blue chip LTs are worth their weight in gold. This is why they go so high on draft day. Under achieving RTs are not, but I do agree that there is time for him to earn his money, even at the RT slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 >>>No top 10 pick is worth the $$ . The NFL teams are forced to overpay for unproven talent.<<< Orlando Pace, a first selection, took away ANY fear of a blindside pass rush and enabled an Arena League castoff to lead his team to a superbowl. Blue chip LTs are worth their weight in gold. This is why they go so high on draft day. Under achieving RTs are not, but I do agree that there is time for him to earn his money, even at the RT slot. 331343[/snapback] Orlando Pace is not a good example to use. He played terrible against the Bills and in several other games . His best play was 2-3 years ago. He's not worth the $$ at all. Walter Jones is proably the only Tackle worth the big $$. Others such as John Tate or even Jennings are stealing $$ from their teams. I understand the LT being the blindside protector of QB's but in this athletic day and age, you better have some mobility because most teams line up 260 lb. guys who can run like a LB ( Freeney ) and just motor around the LT. Williams was the 4th pick in the draft and was slotted to be overpaid. I don't argue his salary but the point of this thread title is silly. Brady was a 6th round pick who EVERY team passed on. Therefore, every team has several overpaid players in comparison to Brady. Why doesn't the author of the thread just state he questions most everything TD does, instead of using this lame argument ? Oh wait, that's right. Then it would be campaigning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Pace was a great player, & Ogden is still pretty damn good, but neither "led" any team to any Super Bowl wins... they are both just grunts. Far better than most grunts, but still grunts. You surely need them to do the dirty work, but playmakers win championships, while grunts support playmakers. This is not to slam all grunts, since Kent Hull (to name one) actually was a fine leader... and we all know where he was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Orlando Pace is not a good example to use. He played terrible against the Bills and in several other games . His best play was 2-3 years ago. He's not worth the $$ at all. Walter Jones is proably the only Tackle worth the big $$. Others such as John Tate or even Jennings are stealing $$ from their teams. I understand the LT being the blindside protector of QB's but in this athletic day and age, you better have some mobility because most teams line up 260 lb. guys who can run like a LB ( Freeney ) and just motor around the LT. Williams was the 4th pick in the draft and was slotted to be overpaid. I don't argue his salary but the point of this thread title is silly. Brady was a 6th round pick who EVERY team passed on. Therefore, every team has several overpaid players in comparison to Brady. Why doesn't the author of the thread just state he questions most everything TD does, instead of using this lame argument ? Oh wait, that's right. Then it would be campaigning. 331351[/snapback] I saw Schobel play well against Pace, and for that matter Ogden. Any player can have a bad game, or even an injury plagued season as we both know. I dont know if Pace is or is not past his prime, but he was the best LT I for one have ever seen. If you ever have time, watch him in the SB tapes. There were plays where Warner had 9-11 seconds with ZERO left side pressure. The DE would STILL be out there getting his ass kicked! On some plays, Freeney can certainly turn the corner and get the qb. On others, such as a running play, Pace in his prime could also flatten him like a pancake and screw him up for a few plays, if not knock him senseless. I am a fan of Schobel, but I once saw Hopkins of the Titans beat on him so bad, I felt sorry for him. Guess who won that game? Btw, I agree that Brady was certainly one of the all-time draft day steals, and it IS hard to compare him to a 4th selection. All we can do is hope that MW dominates so the pain of his cap hit will subside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Pace was a great player, & Ogden is still pretty damn good, but neither "led" any team to any Super Bowl wins... they are both just grunts. Far better than most grunts, but still grunts. You surely need them to do the dirty work, but playmakers win championships, while grunts support playmakers. This is not to slam all grunts, since Kent Hull (to name one) actually was a fine leader... and we all know where he was drafted. 331352[/snapback] A great OL can take an average qb to the superbowl. The Redskins, Ravens and Rams are 3 quick examples, although the skins OL did this more than once. Look, this is not to say that other factors do not enter into the picture. The Ravens had a great D, and the Rams had Faulk and co. The point is that football is simple, in that blocking and running the football produce victories more than great catches on an ESPN highlight film. Do you remember the Raiders superbowl victory over the Vikes? The Raiders OL, perhaps the greatest of all-time; beat the Vikes into oblivion. They were bigger and stronger than the Vikes and crushed them on virtually every play. Stabler was one of my all time favorites, but how effective do you think he would have been with a so-so offensive line? There IS A REASON why LTs are paid so much more than RBs or WRs. It is about winning football games, not sparking the interest of marginal fans who cannot see past the occasional great catch and/or touchdown celebration dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 There IS A REASON why LTs are paid so much more than RBs or WRs. It is about winning football games, not sparking the interest of marginal fans who cannot see past the occasional great catch and/or touchdown celebration dance. 331365[/snapback] It's not about winning football games, it's more about Economics 101:Supply and Demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 It's not about winning football games, it's more about Economics 101:Supply and Demand. 331369[/snapback] That Rico is also true. Not many humans are big, strong nor fast enough to protect the QB's blindside from genetic mutants who are hell bent on crushing him, and then open up holes for a running back to get through. The thing is, having one of these great LTs is a huge step in the right direction toward the Lombardi Trophy. The worst personnel loss that the Bills ever suffered imo was losing Will Wolford when free agency began. Do you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 The thing is, having one of these great LTs is a huge step in the right direction toward the Lombardi Trophy.331378[/snapback] It obviously doesn't hurt, but it's far from required. Ask Bill Belicheck. TD doesn't seem too worried about it either. The worst personnel loss that the Bills ever suffered imo was losing Will Wolford when free agency began. Do you agree?No, that would be Bill Polian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 The worst personnel loss that the Bills ever suffered imo was losing Will Wolford when free agency began. Do you agree? 331378[/snapback] Aye Bill! I am on the same page here Bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted May 8, 2005 Author Share Posted May 8, 2005 Revisionist history. It's never wrong . No top 10 pick is worth the $$ . The NFL teams are forced to overpay for unproven talent. The same time Brady was being selected in the 6th round, Bob Kraft was giving Drew Bledsoe a $102 Million contract. I'm not down on TD for overpaying Mike Williams. I'm upset because he bought into the Bledsoe fraud the the Pats were trying to unload... Then paid him outrageous $$ for 3 years. When he had a chance to unload him after 2004 without a cap hit, he extended him and paid him close to 9 Mil in 2004.... Mike Williams had a far better year than Bledsoe in 2004, who's dead cap hit is 4.3 Mil. We could have used that $$ for a top UFA or towards resigning Nate. Mike Williams has his best football in front of him ( not behind him ). 331339[/snapback] Yeah, revisionist history or missing history? The very next year they realized what a HUGE mistake they made and pawned him off on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted May 8, 2005 Author Share Posted May 8, 2005 Why doesn't the author of the thread just state he questions most everything TD does, instead of using this lame argument ? Oh wait, that's right. Then it would be campaigning. 331351[/snapback] Uh, I do question most everything TD does. Because it doesn't seem to work very well or have much rhyme or reason. The big Travis Henry trade was very interesting. Example: A rookie QB starting with no proven LT, and only one o-lineman drafted in 2005. Brilliant! This was just an interesting sidenote: New England is underpaying for one of the best QBs in the league, and we let go the guy we gave a ton of money to AND a first round pick to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotStuckonStupid Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 food for thought Did not MW flip his truck over on the way to a game then played that day. If that did not do it a motorcycle aint going to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Another example of why NE is a great organization and will remain competitive. 331207[/snapback] It's also an example of why I think getting high draft picks are overrated. Maybe Bobby Beathard was on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tossy McSalad Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 His ass may swallow it! 331218[/snapback] I'd like to learn more about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted May 8, 2005 Author Share Posted May 8, 2005 It obviously doesn't hurt, but it's far from required. Ask Bill Belicheck. TD doesn't seem too worried about it either. TD isn't the one who'll be running for his life! No, that would be Bill Polian. That would be correct. We never recovered from that. 331381[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Mike Williams' compensation this year and in the future has us in a jam. Even if he is considered to be a top five RT (I am not saying he is-- I have no idea), he should probably be paid approximately $5 million per year (assuming he was a free agent). He is being paid double that. If the Bills cut him, they have a huge cap hit and lose a decent RT. If the Bills restructure, they reduce his cap hit for this year but pay him a huge bonus that will hurt us in future years. Plus there is no way he is going to agree to reduce his annual comp from almost $10 million to a more reasonable number in future years (he is not a veteran who is perceived to be on the downside of his career). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I don't think it's fair to compare Brady's deal with Mike Williams' deal, as some have pointed out: although both positions receive huge contracts, Williams received his money purely because of when we picked him and Brady received his contracts based on his proven value to the team. I think a better comparison would be Brady's contract versus someone like Peyton Manning's contract (actually, it might be more fun to compare Brady to Bledsoe again in this department). As much as people want to hate Brady because, uh, he wins (or more correctly "is part of a winning team") - his willingness to sign well below his relative value speaks volumes of his dedication to winning games and Buffalo would be lucky to have a player of his caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Revisionist history. It's never wrong . No top 10 pick is worth the $$ . The NFL teams are forced to overpay for unproven talent. The same time Brady was being selected in the 6th round, Bob Kraft was giving Drew Bledsoe a $102 Million contract. I'm not down on TD for overpaying Mike Williams. I'm upset because he bought into the Bledsoe fraud the the Pats were trying to unload... Then paid him outrageous $$ for 3 years. When he had a chance to unload him after 2004 without a cap hit, he extended him and paid him close to 9 Mil in 2004.... Mike Williams had a far better year than Bledsoe in 2004, who's dead cap hit is 4.3 Mil. We could have used that $$ for a top UFA or towards resigning Nate. Mike Williams has his best football in front of him ( not behind him ). If the Bills had a crystal ball, they probably would have declined to redo Bledsoe's contract and planned to go with JP. But the season came down to the last game, a game in which virtually NO ONE played well, so it's not like WITHOUT the crystall ball they would have had much of a choice, especially with JP being hurt most of the season. And adding Bledsoe gave the Bills much-needed credibility back when they were a 3-13 laughingstock, and he recouped the 1st rounder spent on him by making Price look like a 1st rounder, and then using that pick to select Willis. As for Big Mike, $9M is WAY overpaid for a RT. They should have just kept Jennings at RT and gone in another direction at LT. But again, that's hindsight, and largely a function of lousy OL coaches over the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Your "logic" is getting tiresome. First, you compare salaries for a QB compared to a #4 pick. Yeah, lots of congruency there. Next, you make the comment regarding only one o-linemen drafted in 2005 - which indicates you actually think an O-linemen could actually step right in and have an impact his first year. Brilliant. It's OK to question Donahoe, but at least don't be a friggin idiot when you do it. Uh, I do question most everything TD does. Because it doesn't seem to work verywell or have much rhyme or reason. The big Travis Henry trade was very interesting. Example: A rookie QB starting with no proven LT, and only one o-lineman drafted in 2005. Brilliant! This was just an interesting sidenote: New England is underpaying for one of the best QBs in the league, and we let go the guy we gave a ton of money to AND a first round pick to them. 331408[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 BTW I will bet you, barring injury, Mike Williams makes the probowl this year 331236[/snapback] I have your back here. That kid was doing yeoman's work when the Bills went on that run in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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