Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Since we are on this topic, can someone explain how Carl Sagan can believe in the "Big Bang" theory yet not believe in a supreme being? 326190[/snapback] Carl Sagan could...but he's dead. Basically, the "Big Bang" is a testable theory, in that you can use it to make conjectures, make observations on said conjectures, and see if the results of your observations match what the theory predicts. Theorizing a supreme being, however, is inherently untestable, as omniscience and omnipotence forbids nothing, and thus every observation can be whitewashed via the simple expression "God's will". The nature of science is empirical, the nature of belief in a supreme being is non-empirical by definition (since, after all, that's what "belief" means). Carl Sagan was a consummate empiricist, and as such would not accept the hypothesis of a supreme being simply because it's an untestable hypothesis. And I'm not saying either position is right or wrong (though it should be clear where my sympathies lean)...I'm just saying it is how it is: there's as little room for faith in science (good science, at least), as there is for empiricism in religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 I love the thought that there is a higher power, someone that can watch over me, and guides me, but i am not 5 anymore, and not to knock what others believe, I just don't believe in God, i believe the idea was invented to keep people in line, and several years have pass and it grew to what we see today, again if you need set of rules and an all power ruler to keep you in line then okay. In my believes since there is no God life is more important. Not just mine but others as well, every life to me is a world, because when you die so does your world. I think religion gets people into trouble, the thought that after you die there is a place for you allows you to take life for granted. what is after life? close your eyes and try to remember what was before you were born....that is death to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to prosper." -Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to prosper."-Benjamin Franklin 326212[/snapback] That doesn't prove the existence of God. That proves the existence of beer. Not that that's a bad thing, mind you... And what if you don't believe in Benjamin Franklin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renfruzetz Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 100 different religions means 99% of us are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Since we are on this topic, can someone explain how Carl Sagan can believe in the "Big Bang" theory yet not believe in a supreme being? 326190[/snapback] Karl Sagan frequents adult websites....he ought not be visiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 What created the goo that created us? The lightning? The matter? It's all beyond our minds, folks...it's been discussed for several thousound years by many great minds. If you feel you are no more than a bacteria or a fern, and that's all it amounts to, so be it. If you look at the stars and have no awe and wonderment, so be it. That is your choice. I choose not to belive that. None of us should be so presumptuous as to think we have something new to add...including the originator of this thread...or the dolt who thought it was original topic for assignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 That doesn't prove the existence of God. That proves the existence of beer. Not that that's a bad thing, mind you... And what if you don't believe in Benjamin Franklin? 326217[/snapback] "Beer loves us and wants us to prosper" -Crap Throwing Monkey Hmmmmmm. Let me explore that idea, I am open to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 But even so...that leads to situations where works go through multiple translations in multiple languages. I would not be the least bit surprised if Hebrew portions of the Bible were subsequently translated to Greek, then Latin, then English, which leads to a LOT of room for interpretation of vocabulary alone (for a non-religious example, the Greek agora has a slightly different meaning from the Latin forum has a markedly different meaning from the English "market place". I'm not aware of any particular verse in the Bible where that translation would take place...but hypothetically a parable of Jesus delivered in the agora or forum would have a significantly different context than in a "market place"). And even within languages...I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the "modern" translations of the Bible I've seen weren't simply translations from the KJV into "modern" language...and despite being ostensibly the same language, they're practically different books. 325763[/snapback] The modern translations are indeed translations from the manuscripts that have been found in the original lanquages. You can find, however, Old Testaments that were translated first into Greek, and then into English. Look for English translations of the Septuagint. The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Old Testament that was done in Alexandria, Egypt by a group of 70 scholars. Hence the name "Septuagint. You might be interested to know that at least some quotes in the New Testament of Old Testament passages appear to be from the Septuagint. An example, the synoptic gospels quote the book of Isaiah to explain the ministry of John the Baptist. The New Testament says "A voice crying in the wilderness, 'Prepare the way of the Lord." In Isaiah, in modern translations at least it reads, "A voice crying, 'In the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord." The explanation: The New Testament appears to be quoting the Septuagint, which according to modern scholars made a small error in the Greek translation from the Hebrew. There are a few versions of the Bible in modern language that are billed not as translations (notably The Living Bible), but paraphrases. But unless the translators are guilty of gross dishonesty they do indeed go back to original language manuscripts to do genuine translations. There are a few telltale signs of the fact that modern translators are not just paraphrasing the KJV. The KJV includes a familiar passage in the gospel of John chapter 8 where Jesus intervenes when a woman is about to be stoned. You may be familiar with the quote, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." No one is without sin, so they leave the woman alone. Modern translations correctly note that this story does not appear in the oldest available manuscripts. Some include the passage with an explanation. Some put the passage in a footnote. Speculation is that it was part of the oral tradition of the church which some enterprising young monk felt should be in one of the gospels. It may have been an actual incident in Jesus' ministry, but was probably not part of the Jospel of John when it was written. There is another passage in the last chapter of Mark with a similar history, and a single verse in I John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Believe in reincarnation and homework. Especially in NJ. 326008[/snapback] Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 OH NO not another Homework thread. Guess we have not learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Going on up to the Spirit in the Sky- Norman Greenbaum Jesus is just alright with me - Dobbie Brothers 40 - U2 If nothing else, God has been putting out some good licks. 326181[/snapback] "How Great Thou Art" - as performed by Mississippi John Hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 1) how do you know their is 1 god? anyone who says they KNOW for a fact does not know that, and does not know what FACT means.2) i can not follow any religion that will allow a serial killer or child molester to sit in jail for 30 years, and just befor he is exicuted, repents his sins and has a confession with a priest and gets in to heaven, while a good man who tries to live his life with morals and helping people is sent to hell simply because he does not blindly believe in "god" as writen by man thousands of years after jesus's death and has been edited and changed so many times that we have no idea what the original writer was actually trying to say. 3) and also, just because someone believes in god and heaven and goes to church on sunday, doesnt mean they are the nice good christians most people think. I find it asinine that people blindy trust people simply because they sit behind them in church on sunday. 325599[/snapback] You raise some interesting food for thought. Here is some more. If Adam and Eve were the begining, they had Caine and Abel right, who did they mate with to propogate the species? oops, those Mother f---er's Sorry, I have a problem with this whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I don't believe in religion. I don't know whether there is a God or not, but I can't imagine a diety micromanaging everyone's life. I think people feel more important if they believe that God is watching over them, I don't believe God does, if he exists. I believe there is an afterlife, and it is only slightly different than life. I believe when you die that you do not join any diety of your choice and you do not learn whether or not God exists, because if he does, he doesn't mingle with people-alive or dead. Since I believe in an afterlife, which is close to but different than life, it is your dead friends and relatives who work to answer your prayers, not any diety. So in effect, prayer does work, the dead acting as the angels who answer those prayers. I believe that most of religion as it currently exists on Earth is the result of alien visits and the misinterpretation of those aliens as divine figures. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell. While there may be a God, the idea of Satan's existance (other than the hockey player) is absurd to me. Basically someone looked up in the sky to devise their idea of heaven, and hell comes from the heat that you get from going towards the center of the earth, hitting lava etc. 326090[/snapback] Possibly, ever see that one Star Trek episode where some culture analyst accidentaly left a book about the 1920's Chicago gangster's on an human like developing planet and it altered their development into 1920's Chicago gangsrter's because they though they were behaving the way "God" wanted them too. What if Jesus was an alien children's fairy tale from a war like alien culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 What created the goo that created us? The lightning? The matter? It's all beyond our minds, folks...it's been discussed for several thousound years by many great minds. If you feel you are no more than a bacteria or a fern, and that's all it amounts to, so be it. If you look at the stars and have no awe and wonderment, so be it. That is your choice. I choose not to belive that. None of us should be so presumptuous as to think we have something new to add...including the originator of this thread...or the dolt who thought it was original topic for assignment. 326252[/snapback] Maybe God created the goo, and let evolution take it's course ? Mmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 100 different religions means 99% of us are wrong. 326219[/snapback] 99 to 100% of religions. Maybe they are all wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 1) how do you know their is 1 god? anyone who says they KNOW for a fact does not know that, and does not know what FACT means.2) i can not follow any religion that will allow a serial killer or child molester to sit in jail for 30 years, and just befor he is exicuted, repents his sins and has a confession with a priest and gets in to heaven, while a good man who tries to live his life with morals and helping people is sent to hell simply because he does not blindly believe in "god" as writen by man thousands of years after jesus's death and has been edited and changed so many times that we have no idea what the original writer was actually trying to say. 3) and also, just because someone believes in god and heaven and goes to church on sunday, doesnt mean they are the nice good christians most people think. I find it asinine that people blindy trust people simply because they sit behind them in church on sunday. 325599[/snapback] 1) The Bible. 2) Confession has nothing to do with a priest, it has to do with Christ. The Bible says that no one is good, not even one. (Bible) The Greek has not been changed. 3) I completely agree. It's about a relationship with Jesus, not about church attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 See, here is where you have stumbled out of the blocks. When embarking on a research project, the reviewer needs to go into it with an open mind, not with an already working theory. You are setting out to prove your own "beliefs" or "theories." How objective can this "research project" be? - shoveldog No. All research begins with a theory. The proving and disproving is where you need the open mind. You need to be able to accept that you are wrong. You do not have to be neutral going in. You do need to distance yourself from your beliefs during the research and analysis so that you do not bias the research. i dont see how a religion can be organized?am i supposed to follow orders from the 80 year old pope?? am i supposed to believe what they tell me to?, cus if i dont then im not part of that group..... what if i disagree with 1 thing. does that mean im going to hell when i die??? –ch19079 If you were studying biology, wouldn't you believe biologists who have studied biology their entire adult life? The pope is the biologist in this example. The current pope has studied theology well longer than I've been alive. Why wouldn't I believe him? I believe in a merciful God who understands that people make mistakes. I don't think disagreeing with one precept is grounds for condemnation, unless it is egregious. Which beliefs are most important to follow? Only God knows that for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 1) The Bible.2) Confession has nothing to do with a priest, it has to do with Christ. The Bible says that no one is good, not even one. (Bible) The Greek has not been changed. 3) I completely agree. It's about a relationship with Jesus, not about church attendance. 326568[/snapback] 1) i read harry potter, but that doesnt make it reality. 2a) i agree its not about the priest, but i stand by my critisism of "confession" forgiving all sins. 2b) how can you say the bible has not been changed since it was first put together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 If you were studying biology, wouldn't you believe biologists who have studied biology their entire adult life? The pope is the biologist in this example. The current pope has studied theology well longer than I've been alive. Why wouldn't I believe him? 326581[/snapback] well i would believe a biologist cus if i ask any bioligist a question they will all give me the same answer. but if you ask a religious leader a question, he may give you a completly diffrent respose than other religious leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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