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Harrison Phillips- Can he become what he was drafted for?


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9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You're not right. You're indulging your prejudices.

 

You didn't say that the odds that Star might get injured are higher than for most Bills. That's true. You said you don't expect much of him and you said ...

 

I don’t expect much of him.  I saw him play in 2019 and didn’t think much of him then. 1.5 years off and I don’t see any reason why he would improve.  

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Yeah, you did say that, which pretty much proves my point. That's indulging your prejudices and pretending a wild-ass guess is a likelihood. Do 300 pound football players get injured more than, say 250 pound LBs or 220 pound RBs? Where's your evidence? Yeah, guys in their 30s get injured more than younger guys, but I don't see you talking about Hughes or Hyde or Addison or Taiwan Jones.

 

And I'd love to see your evidence that guys who take a year off get injured more often. Pretty sure guys like Harrison Phillips would love to see that evidence too.

 

What says more about you than Star? What you said. That you think following your biases rather than the probabilities will get you closer to a better guess. Generally it will not.

again.  What does that say about me?  Is the bolded you’re answer?  
 

I didn’t see any probabilities listed.  Is it documented somewhere that 300lb 30+ year old players that take 1.5 years off have the same probability of getting injured as the average player?   Last I knew Harrison phillips isn’t 30+ years old, so I don’t see how he’s relevant 

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

And here's an idea. You seem to be a poor summarizer, so if you want to respond to something I said, why don't you quote me? That way we won't have to go through the whole, "Um, no I did not say that," thing again and again.

 

For example, you said, "You said that harrison is probably the better 1T…..and Harrison isn’t THAT good." Yeah, um, no, I did not say that. Can you show me where I said that Harrison is probably the better 1T? Can you show me where I said Harrison isn't that good"? No, you can't, those are poor paraphrases. I didn't say those things. Nor would I, as I am not convinced of either one.

 

 

Yes, I can be a poor summarizer.  I misread your post.  

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Theres no doubt Harrison had a monster year in 2012.  Not only was he a dominant pass rusher and run stuffer but he also was the team's starting running back, backup QB, and lined up at tight end.  If

From what I recall, Harrison played his best ball later in the year after spending some time on the inactive list.  I am optimistic he will have his best season this year.

Agree that everything points to them focusing on pass rush impact over stay-at-home types like Star.   The actions ever since Star opted out have spoken loudly.   I don't think Phillips was

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On 6/15/2021 at 10:23 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

After they lost to the Chiefs they said they needed to get bigger,  were lacking at the TE position and needed more team speed.

 

The only one of those weaknesses they even addressed with a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal was getting bigger at the LOS.

 

Basham is much bigger DE than a Jerry Hughes and more stout than Daryl Johnson........he is a Shaq-type build that they now can use on early downs and *hopefully* not sacrifice much in pass rush.    And Rousseau and Obada are giant sized DE's.

 

What they haven't addressed even once since Star opted out is a non-pass rush capable 1 tech type like Lotulelei.

 

So yes there is plenty of evidence that they aren't putting much stock into the position.    There have been plenty of big bodies available but they have rarely even tried any out let alone signed one to the PS or otherwise.

 

 

 

 

Here's where you're factually wrong:

 

You said, "After they lost to the Chiefs they said they needed to get bigger,  were lacking at the TE position and needed more team speed. The only one of those weaknesses they even addressed with a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal was getting bigger at the LOS." And then implied they hadn't done anything to address those concerns.

 

Remind me, did they say, "we needed to get bigger," or did they say, "We need to get bigger using what some guy on the internet would call a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal?"

 

Did they say, "we are lacking at TE" at all? Or did they say that nobody feared them at TE? Did they anywhere say, "We need to bring in a TE with a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal"?

 

Same with team speed. They addressed it with Rousseau, with Breida, with Wildgoose, with Marquez Stevenson, by bringing McKenzie back ... if we're very lucky, Christian Wade may even turn out to be useable team speed. Yeah, Rousseau and Basham are big. But Rousseau in particular is also sudden. And while he's tall, he's 266 and athletic.

 

And remind me, didn't they bring in an extremely big "Shaq-type" DE last year, in Epenesa? What happened with him and weight again? I can't remember, did they tell him to stay big and muscular?

 

They didn't change what they're looking for in the slightest. They've always wanted long DEs. Rousseau and Basham are long. Epenesa is long. They've always wanted tough DEs, and the new guys are tough, as are the old ones. They had a problem, not enough talented pass rushers last year, and they worked hard towards solving that problem with their first two picks.

 

They addressed all three of the concerns you bring up. Not least by just sitting back with a smile and watching Star Lotulelei come back to make DE size more impressive on early downs. That itself addressed that need.

 

They didn't promise to address things in a way that you would approve of. By your record on the Bills, very little would clear that bar anyway.

 

But did the FO address those needs? Yeah. Not least by welcoming back Star Lotulelei.

 

So, no, there is zero evidence "they aren't putting much stock into the position." They brought back Star, a guy who is under contract for three more years. They may well feel that he's enough, or that other options they liked for backups were either picked before they were good value, or would cost too much in FA to bring in, though the offseason is as yet far from over.

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In the first five games of 2019 Harrison was playing really well. He got hurt (and the run defense slipped into a bad state for the middle of the season) and came back in 2020 not playing at nearly the same level. Hopefully a full season removed from his major 2019 injury (which did happen 5 games into the season) he can return to form. Sadly in 2020 Harrison was mostly a forgettable rotation player. Not tragic as he can play rotational snaps but kind of a JAG. Hopefully with a more normal and regimented off-season and more time removed from injury helps him. 

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2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Here's where you're factually wrong:

 

You said, "After they lost to the Chiefs they said they needed to get bigger,  were lacking at the TE position and needed more team speed. The only one of those weaknesses they even addressed with a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal was getting bigger at the LOS." And then implied they hadn't done anything to address those concerns.

 

Remind me, did they say, "we needed to get bigger," or did they say, "We need to get bigger using what some guy on the internet would call a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal?"

 

Did they say, "we are lacking at TE" at all? Or did they say that nobody feared them at TE? Did they anywhere say, "We need to bring in a TE with a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal"?

 

Same with team speed. They addressed it with Rousseau, with Breida, with Wildgoose, with Marquez Stevenson, by bringing McKenzie back ... if we're very lucky, Christian Wade may even turn out to be useable team speed. Yeah, Rousseau and Basham are big. But Rousseau in particular is also sudden. And while he's tall, he's 266 and athletic.

 

And remind me, didn't they bring in an extremely big "Shaq-type" DE last year, in Epenesa? What happened with him and weight again? I can't remember, did they tell him to stay big and muscular?

 

They addressed all three of the concerns you bring up. Not least by just sitting back with a smile and watching Star Lotulelei come back to make DE size more impressive on early downs. That itself is addressed that need.

 

They didn't promise to address things in a way that you would approve of. By your record, very little would clear that bar anyway.

 

But did they address them? Yeah. Not least by welcoming back Star Lotulelei.

 

So, no, there is zero evidence "they aren't putting much stock into the position." They brought back Star, a guy who is under contract for three more years. They may well feel that he's enough, or that other options they liked for backups were either picked before they were good value, or would cost too much in FA to bring in, though the offseason is as yet far from over.

How does brining a player back address team speed? 😅

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On 6/15/2021 at 10:59 AM, NewEra said:

I don’t expect much of him.  I saw him play in 2019 and didn’t think much of him then. 1.5 years off and I don’t see any reason why he would improve.

I'm in the same boat. I don't have anything bad to say about him, just one of those I could take him or leave him kinda things. I just think he gets little too much $$.

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On 6/15/2021 at 11:59 PM, NewEra said:

 

I don’t expect much of him.  I saw him play in 2019 and didn’t think much of him then. 1.5 years off and I don’t see any reason why he would improve.  

again.  What does that say about me?  Is the bolded you’re answer?  
 

I didn’t see any probabilities listed.  Is it documented somewhere that 300lb 30+ year old players that take 1.5 years off have the same probability of getting injured as the average player?   Last I knew Harrison phillips isn’t 30+ years old, so I don’t see how he’s relevant 

Yes, I can be a poor summarizer.  I misread your post.  

 

 

Fair enough that you misread my post. I make enough mistakes for ten people, myself.

 

Equally fair that you don't expect much of him. It seems pretty misguided, though, as when last here he was a crucial part of an elite defense that then wasn't nearly as good, in very predictable ways, without him.

 

However, I find it immensely difficult to understand how you are still puzzled about what you said that says more about you than Star. I believe I've gone over that three times now. Perhaps I didn't express it clearly enough. I'll try yet one more time, but this will be it.

 

You said, "Star won't be playing." That's wacko. It's taking your own quite unlikely opinion for fact. Says more about you than it does about Star.

 

You said, "I said that if he plays, he’ll get hurt." Also quite wacko to think that you can be sure of something that is so very unpredictable.

 

I could throw in a couple of more things, but there are two things that you said that show far more about you than they do about Star.

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10 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

In the first five games of 2019 Harrison was playing really well. He got hurt (and the run defense slipped into a bad state for the middle of the season) and came back in 2020 not playing at nearly the same level. Hopefully a full season removed from his major 2019 injury (which did happen 5 games into the season) he can return to form. Sadly in 2020 Harrison was mostly a forgettable rotation player. Not tragic as he can play rotational snaps but kind of a JAG. Hopefully with a more normal and regimented off-season and more time removed from injury helps him. 

3 games but I am also hopeful. Reason for my hope is they saw him for more than just the 3 games in 2019. They saw him for training camp. If he was balling out for those weeks it would explain why there wasn’t more of an investment in what I still consider the position group that scares me the most. 

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11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

How does brining a player back address team speed? 😅

 

 

@Thurman#1 is a doozy.😆

 

He definitely would have been THAT guy adamantly defending Dick Jauron by comparing his record in his first 3 seasons in Buffalo to Bill Belichick's record in Cleveland.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Fair enough that you misread my post. I make enough mistakes for ten people, myself.

 

Equally fair that you don't expect much of him. It seems pretty misguided, though, as when last here he was a crucial part of an elite defense that then wasn't nearly as good, in very predictable ways, without him.

 

However, I find it immensely difficult to understand how you are still puzzled about what you said that says more about you than Star. I believe I've gone over that three times now. Perhaps I didn't express it clearly enough. I'll try yet one more time, but this will be it.

 

You said, "Star won't be playing." That's wacko. It's taking your own quite unlikely opinion for fact. Says more about you than it does about Star.

 

You said, "I said that if he plays, he’ll get hurt." Also quite wacko to think that you can be sure of something that is so very unpredictable.

 

I could throw in a couple of more things, but there are two things that you said that show far more about you than they do about Star.

It’s obviously just my opinion…..it’s not fact. I’m not pushing that it’s a fact.  It’s a prediction…….It’s a message board where people give their opinion.  My opinion is that when the real bullets are flying (in the playoffs) he won’t be playing.  


so….a guy giving his opinion on a message board says what about that guy?  Maybe you’re reading it as fact or maybe I worded in a way where you thought that way.  That wasn’t my intention

 

quite wacko to think that I’m not just giving my opinion about this as opposed to actually announcing to the world that I know what will happen.  I don’t….

 

are you done betting all bent over someone giving their opinion? 

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11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

@Thurman#1 is a doozy.😆

 

He definitely would have been THAT guy adamantly defending Dick Jauron by comparing his record in his first 3 seasons in Buffalo to Bill Belichick's record in Cleveland.

 

 

I mean how do you suggest the team added speed and then cite a guy who was already on the team last season as that added dimension of speed? 😅

 

That’s something The Big Cat would do. 

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4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I mean how do you suggest the team added speed and then cite a guy who was already on the team last season as that added dimension of speed? 😅

 

That’s something The Big Cat would do. 

 

 

@Thurman#1's  "HEEEEEEEEEEAT Maps" moment is likely to happen this summer.........he has piled up so much BS this offseason that TSW might need to buy some carbon credits to avoid an emissions fine.

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