plenzmd1 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: TBH, I think it's a response to an overwhelmed and overly bureaucratic reporting process that has been legitimately frustrating members of the covid-19 task force such as Dr. Birx. They are trying to transition to a once-daily update of an online spreadsheet. But, given the background of an administration that has a pattern of misrepresenting the public health situation not to mention politicizing it, it is making a number of people (such as myself) extremely nervous I don't know about worldometer .... From the horse's mouth, positive cases in Sweden are not zero https://www.covid19insweden.com/en/ I mean, if cases in each region have increased between 1% and 8% over the last 7 days, there is no way that "positives are now basically zero", right? i agree on first point on data..too scattershot across regions and states. But is scary if we think Trump can manipulate it, but man that would be way to risky no? Worldometer has been pretty spot on..maybe the difference is cases are actives and positives are new tests? Although they have 62K active cases...kinda like we both said above LOL Edited July 15, 2020 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: i agree on first point on data..too scattershot across regions and states. But is scary if we think Trump can manipulate it, but man that would be way to risky no? Worldometer has been pretty spot on..maybe the difference is cases are actives and positives are new tests? Although they have 62K active cases...kinda like we both said above LOL I think Worldometer is fine, but Sweden's reporting system takes its sweet time. When their data source lags, Worldometer lags. Here's an article about some of the problems State Departments of Health are having in tracking covid-19 test data. I'm gonna guess it's not any better on the hospital side. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/upshot/coronavirus-response-fax-machines.html?fbclid=IwAR1NMuiJglyCjfaNbjdUOG3Gqr2C3OqYXDe8vkcUB1k8pJ-votqbMwe075k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 You'd like to know the true worth a one size fits all lockdown would have had if the leader who tests negative everyday wore a mask for optics? Do you believe New York and Nebraska should have been treated the same? 23 minutes ago, Figster said: I want to know what the true worth of a unified lockdown across the US would have been with leadership at the top intelligent enough to do something as simple as wearing a mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, LB3 said: You'd like to know the true worth a one size fits all lockdown would have had if the leader who tests negative everyday wore a mask for optics? Do you believe New York and Nebraska should have been treated the same? Its called setting a good example, not sending mixed signals to a country in dire need of clarity. When I can climb in a car and drive from NY to Nebraska in under 24 hours. Contaminating everyone I come in contact with, Absolutely... Edited July 15, 2020 by Figster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, LB3 said: Do you believe New York and Nebraska should have been treated the same? Yes treated the same - plan for all based on circumstances and measurements not according political will, whether or not allowing this will help or hurt campaign contributors or election chances, etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, Figster said: When I can climb in a car and drive from NY to Nebraska in under 24 hours. Contaminating everyone I come in contact with, Absolutely... So Nebraska should have shut down in March for a virus that hadn't hit there yet? Then when it did finally hit, stay locked down even longer. New York, having been hit hardest earlier, should have stayed locked down until it made it's way slowly across the rest of country? 9 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Yes treated the same - plan for all based on circumstances and measurements not according political will, whether or not allowing this will help or hurt campaign contributors or election chances, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 18 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Yes treated the same - plan for all based on circumstances and measurements not according political will, whether or not allowing this will help or hurt campaign contributors or election chances, etc. Then shut NY, NJ, MA..the whole Northeast..shut it all down now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 30 minutes ago, LB3 said: You'd like to know the true worth a one size fits all lockdown would have had if the leader who tests negative everyday wore a mask for optics? Do you believe New York and Nebraska should have been treated the same? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Then shut NY, NJ, MA..the whole Northeast..shut it all down now They would have had to have a consistent plan first - which they did not - not just states which disagree with president - open it all up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Just now, Bad Things said: Yes why? Do you think NY should be in total lockdown mode now? Just now, Limeaid said: They would have had to have a consistent plan first - which they did not - not just states which disagree with president - open it all up. what in the world are you trying to say here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, LB3 said: So Nebraska should have shut down in March for a virus that hadn't hit there yet? Then when it did finally hit, stay locked down even longer. New York, having been hit hardest earlier, should have stayed locked down until it made it's way slowly across the rest of country? My point is without a unified approach the whole country could continue the spread going from one hot spot to another for God only knows how long. As soon as one hot spot gets under control a new hot spot emerges. The virus can travel long distances as fast as a person in a car, bus or plane can carry it. It knows no boundries. Nobody in our country is safe until everyone in our country is safe from Covid 19. With all due respect... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm The way I read it is this: Total deaths are returning to their normal level. One way to interpret that is, "Hey situation normal, stop worrying." My take as someone who doesn't study any of this is: "We have a lot more people dying from Covid but that's offset by (1) people not getting other transmissible diseases due to masks/distancing, (2) lots of other causes of deaths are down (think: car accidents for example)." Now there may be some other causes of death increasing due to people not getting medical care as well. But in total, the number of deaths is approaching its "normal range." Happy to hear from anyone more knowledgeable about this chart. 24 minutes ago, LB3 said: So Nebraska should have shut down in March for a virus that hadn't hit there yet? Then when it did finally hit, stay locked down even longer. New York, having been hit hardest earlier, should have stayed locked down until it made it's way slowly across the rest of country? My view on this is not what you propose. A national plan is not one where 330M people do the exact same thing. A national plan is one where every region gets treated with the same standard (the CDC standard that only NYS seems to follow looks about right) and the government manages outbreaks and increases regionally with behavior changes and funneling resources. There was no need for people in Montana to be doing the same things as NYC Metro in April. Edited July 15, 2020 by shoshin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, Figster said: My point is without a unified approach the whole country could continue the spread going from one hot spot to another for God only knows how long. As soon as one hot spot gets under control a new hot spot emerges. The virus can travel long distances as fast as a person in a car, bus or plane can carry it. It knows no boundries. Nobody in our country is safe until everyone in our country is safe from Covid 19. With all due respect... Do you think NY and Va say should have the same lockdowns and rules etc now governing in CA? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, shoshin said: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm The way I read it is this: Total deaths are returning to their normal level. One way to interpret that is, "Hey situation normal, stop worrying." My take as someone who doesn't study any of this is: "We have a lot more people dying from Covid but that's offset by (1) people not getting other transmissible diseases due to masks/distancing, (2) lots of other causes of deaths are down (think: car accidents for example)." Now there may be some other causes of death increasing due to people not getting medical care as well. But in total, the number of deaths is approaching it's "normal range." Happy to hear from anyone more knowledgeable about this chart. The problem with this train of thought is the country, its people, can't survive this way indefinitely. By way of example while car accidents might be down people need to drive. While flu deaths might be down people need to work, make a living, put food on the table. So no, I'm not buying into because the overall death rate in our country is where it should be the American people are where we should be because we are not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: why? Do you think NY should be in total lockdown mode now? what in the world are you trying to say here? If that's what it takes to stop the spread of the virus, then yes. What restrictions are currently in place for NY? (I honestly have no idea.) I am fully aware that it’s a completely different situation down here in NZ with only 5 million people and easier controlled borders, but… as our Prime Minister said, when the first case of the virus appeared on our shores back in March, we went in hard and early. Our borders were immediately closed to everyone apart from Kiwi citizens and the entire nation went into a FULL lockdown until the virus was stamped out. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53274085 All returning Kiwis must also go into a managed 2-week quarantine upon arrival. For 70+ days now, we haven’t had a case of community transmission, but have caught numerous incoming cases at the border/quarantine. The problem is that the US should have had a nationwide, united-front in battling this, instead of the scattershot approach that actually happened. (Not to even mention the undermining comments that Trump projects to the nation.) I know you don't like hearing my thoughts on this, but you asked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 22 minutes ago, Figster said: The problem with this train of thought is the country, its people, can't survive this way indefinitely. By way of example while car accidents might be down people need to drive. While flu deaths might be down people need to work, make a living, put food on the table. So no, I'm not buying into because the overall death rate in our country is where it should be the American people are where we should be because we are not. Agree 100%. I was just interpreting the chart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: Do you think NY and Va say should have the same lockdowns and rules etc now governing in CA? Good question, I think without a unified approach across the nation Covid 19 will continue to spread unchecked IMO. It doesn't necessarily mean different precautions couldn't be used depending on the severity of the outbreak. By way of example everyone should be wearing masks and practicing social distancing right now regardless of where you reside. ( IMO) Myself personally, I think all bars and restraunts should be closed in the US with the exception of take out IMO. All large gatherings prohibited. Close all beaches. All places of worship should be closed in the US in my humble opinion.. Edited July 15, 2020 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 24 minutes ago, Bad Things said: What restrictions are currently in place for NY? (I honestly have no idea.) And therein lies the issue. No offense against you, but this is pretty standard across the board” And it takes more work than reading headlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: And therein lies the issue. No offense against you, but this is pretty standard across the board” And it takes more work than reading headlines. Sorry, not sure what you mean by that. All I know is that when watching the news coming out of the US, it seems like no one knows what's going on. In some areas people have to wear masks, in other areas don't. Some are even protesting against having to wear a mask. In some areas bars and restaurants can be open, but in other areas they are still in lockdown. In some areas schools will be open for students, in other areas, not so much. It all seems like a big cluster-F. I don't have the time or desire to look up what's specifically happening back in upstate NY. Just thought someone could share their experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 43 minutes ago, Figster said: Good question, I think without a unified approach across the nation Covid 19 will continue to spread unchecked IMO. It doesn't necessarily mean different precautions couldn't be used depending on the severity of the outbreak. By way of example everyone should be wearing masks and practicing social distancing right now regardless of where you reside. ( IMO) I also think all bars and restraunts should be closed across the US with the exception of take out. All large gatherings prohibited. In my county in NYS, we've had less than 250 cases and zero deaths. The first week of phase three, no one in bars were adhering to social distancing or mask rules. It was back to normal. A week later, Karen's had reported all the bars and they are now following the rules. There have been no uptick in positives even though evil business owners were trying to make a living. Why should these businesses be forced to lose their livelihoods? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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