ALF Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Spotrac has his market value at $17.1M a year. I would rather draft a DE and go after offense free agents and have money to re-sign good players here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chemical said: That's a pretty vague description of what will happen. They currently have a TON of cap space for next year. Also, Hughes, Star, and Murphy will all probably be off the books by 2021 creating even more space and need for Lawson, Phillips, Ngakoue(or another Free agent DE). We should be talking about how they are gonna be able to spend all that money while Josh is on a rookie deal, not acting scared that we might have to pass on another Murphy 3 years from now. Here is a list of guys that will get 10+ million extensions this offseason or next: white milano edmunds dawkins poyer hyde potentially Allen Those are just the big contracts. cutting those guys don’t get us the space we need in two years. Your approach will turn us into the rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Here is a list of guys that will get 10+ million extensions this offseason or next: white milano edmunds dawkins poyer hyde potentially Allen Those are just the big contracts. cutting those guys don’t get us the space we need in two years. Your approach will turn us into the rams. Sorry, but they won't pay Milano, Poyer, or Hyde $10 mil or more. Allen and Edmunds won't see contract extensions until 2022. Edited December 22, 2019 by TPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, TPS said: Sorry, but they won't pay Milano, Poyer, or Hyde $10 mil or more. Allen and Edmunds won't see contract extensions until 2022. Let me put it this way. Those guys will get those contracts. It’s just whether you want the bills to be the ones giving them out. Make no mistake, those three and white make this defense go. What do you think we look like without them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) @JoshAllenHasBigHands Let's assume we are ONLY signing our own players over the next couple years to see what's left over for Free Agents. Spotrac has a tool for some players where they calculate a players market value. At first glance they have Tre While undervalued IMO at 14mil/per, while Milano is overvalued at 13.3mil/per. So let's call that a wash and say 27mil for both players. Let's say 10mil. average each for Edmunds, Dawkins, Hyde and Poyer: 40 mil. Hell I'll even add another 10 mil just to be safe. 50 mil. We will factor in Allen later since it's still up in the air. 77 mil. for our own players. We currently have around 90 mil in space for just next offseason BEFORE cutting Murphy and maybe Kroft. Also consider those players being re-signed above are already being paid part of that 77mil. so the increase is what cuts into the future cap space not the total. Since we are talking about 2-4 years down the line I'll just approximate future cap space based on this offseason's current cap space plus players' salaries who will be off the books by 2022 AND players' current non-rookie salaries who were re-signed (Hyde, Poyer). I'll leave rookie salaries on the books since there will be draft picks replacing them. Keep in mind the cap will be going up also. 90 mil cap space + (Star's 10) + (Hughe's 9.5) + (Murphy 9) + (NSekhe 5) + (Kroft 6.6) + (Hyde 6.7) + (Poyer 4) + (Long 4) + (Smith 3) = 148 Million 148 - 77 = 71 million dollars left for Allen and outside free agents. I could also assume Beasley and his 7 million are gone by then as he will be 33 and have virtually no cap penalty to cut. I left players like Yeldon, Roberts and Hauschka on the books assuming similar players will be signed. Edit: I forgot to add Lawson and Phillips since I was going off of @JoshAllenHasBigHands's list of our own players to re-sign. It seemed like too much cap space, but ~$50 million is still plenty. Edited December 22, 2019 by Chemical Adding players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chemical said: @JoshAllenHasBigHands Let's assume we are ONLY signing our own players over the next couple years to see what's left over for Free Agents. Spotrac has a tool for some players where they calculate a players market value. At first glance they have Tre While undervalued IMO at 14mil/per, while Milano is overvalued at 13.3mil/per. So let's call that a wash and say 27mil for both players. Let's say 10mil. average each for Edmunds, Dawkins, Hyde and Poyer: 40 mil. Hell I'll even add another 10 mil just to be safe. 50 mil. We will factor in Allen later since it's still up in the air. 77 mil. for our own players. We currently have around 90 mil in space for just next offseason BEFORE cutting Murphy and maybe Kroft. Also consider those players being re-signed above are already being paid part of that 67mil. so the increase is what cuts into the future cap space not the total. Since we are talking about 2-4 years down the line I'll just approximate future cap space based on this offseason's current cap space plus players' salaries who will be off the books by 2022 AND players' current non-rookie salaries who were re-signed (Hyde, Poyer). I'll leave rookie salaries on the books since there will be draft picks replacing them. Keep in mind the cap will be going up also. 90 mil cap space + (Star's 10) + (Hughe's 9.5) + (Murphy 9) + (NSekhe 5) + (Kroft 6.6) + (Hyde 6.7) + (Poyer 4) + (Long 4) + (Smith 3) = 148 Million 148 - 77 = 71 million dollars left for Allen and outside free agents. I could also assume Beasley and his 7 million are gone by then as he will be 33 and have virtually no cap penalty to cut. I left players like Yeldon, Roberts and Hauschka on the books assuming similar players will be signed. Great post. Give me some time and I’ll get back to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Chemical said: @JoshAllenHasBigHands Let's assume we are ONLY signing our own players over the next couple years to see what's left over for Free Agents. Spotrac has a tool for some players where they calculate a players market value. At first glance they have Tre While undervalued IMO at 14mil/per, while Milano is overvalued at 13.3mil/per. So let's call that a wash and say 27mil for both players. Let's say 10mil. average each for Edmunds, Dawkins, Hyde and Poyer: 40 mil. Hell I'll even add another 10 mil just to be safe. 50 mil. We will factor in Allen later since it's still up in the air. 77 mil. for our own players. We currently have around 90 mil in space for just next offseason BEFORE cutting Murphy and maybe Kroft. Also consider those players being re-signed above are already being paid part of that 77mil. so the increase is what cuts into the future cap space not the total. Since we are talking about 2-4 years down the line I'll just approximate future cap space based on this offseason's current cap space plus players' salaries who will be off the books by 2022 AND players' current non-rookie salaries who were re-signed (Hyde, Poyer). I'll leave rookie salaries on the books since there will be draft picks replacing them. Keep in mind the cap will be going up also. 90 mil cap space + (Star's 10) + (Hughe's 9.5) + (Murphy 9) + (NSekhe 5) + (Kroft 6.6) + (Hyde 6.7) + (Poyer 4) + (Long 4) + (Smith 3) = 148 Million 148 - 77 = 71 million dollars left for Allen and outside free agents. I could also assume Beasley and his 7 million are gone by then as he will be 33 and have virtually no cap penalty to cut. I left players like Yeldon, Roberts and Hauschka on the books assuming similar players will be signed. Edit: I forgot to add Lawson and Phillips since I was going off of @JoshAllenHasBigHands's list of our own players to re-sign. It seemed like too much cap space, but ~$50 million is still plenty. Good thing I checked the new posts, as I was almost about to post something similar... Btw, the other thing that is starting to happen is the grooming of replacements. For example, I won't be surprised to see Jaquan Johnson become a starter at S in 2021. Then there's Vosean Joseph and Dodson at LB. After the 2020 draft, the Bills should be a very good place going forward. Edited December 22, 2019 by TPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Chemical said: That's a pretty vague description of what will happen. They currently have a TON of cap space for next year. Also, Hughes, Star, and Murphy will all probably be off the books by 2021 creating even more space and need for Lawson, Phillips, Ngakoue(or another Free agent DE). We should be talking about how they are gonna be able to spend all that money while Josh is on a rookie deal, not acting scared that we might have to pass on another Murphy 3 years from now. They simply don’t have the space for all those players. I know it looks like they have a ton of room but they have a lot of contracts coming up. Im not going to get I to all the specifics because it would take a long ass time but there are several sites and podcasts that have laid out what’s coming up and it will be difficult to sign both Shaq and Phillips much less adding another expensive FA in addition. They’re going to have to make some choices. Personally I think they let both Shaq and Phillips walk because they have both likely priced themselves out of contracts that accurately reflect their play on the field. Both are good players but neither deserves a huge contract but both will likely get one somewhere. I’d be all for canning Murphy and giving his money to Shaq if he’d take it, I’m not sure he would though. Id love to see them take a run at Ngakoue though. He is a DE who is worth a big contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 minute ago, MDH said: They simply don’t have the space for all those players. I know it looks like they have a ton of room but they have a lot of contracts coming up. Im not going to get I to all the specifics because it would take a long ass time but there are several sites and podcasts that have laid out what’s coming up and it will be difficult to sign both Shaq and Phillips much less adding another expensive FA in addition. They’re going to have to make some choices. Personally I think they let both Shaq and Phillips walk because they have both likely priced themselves out of contracts that accurately reflect their play on the field. Both are good players but neither deserves a huge contract but both will likely get one somewhere. I’d be all for canning Murphy and giving his money to Shaq if he’d take it, I’m not sure he would though. Id love to see them take a run at Ngakoue though. He is a DE who is worth a big contract. See my post above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chemical said: See my post above Just read it, not bad but you’re undervaluing what kind of contracts these players will demand Imo. Tre will get $17M minimum. Milano will get $12-13M. Dawkins and Edmunds will both get north of $10m. I think you’re about right for the safeties. They have to make a decision on Spain too. He is on a one year deal. Maybe Long takes over, maybe not. Beane will reserve $10M for draft picks and prob another $5 or so for injury replacements and such during the season. It all starts adding up and suddenly you don’t have enough for everybody and FAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, MDH said: Just read it, not bad but you’re undervaluing what kind of contracts these players will demand Imo. Tre will get $17M minimum. Milano will get $12-13M. Dawkins and Edmunds will both get north of $10m. I think you’re about right for the safeties. They have to make a decision on Spain too. He is on a one year deal. Maybe Long takes over, maybe not. Beane will reserve $10M for draft picks and prob another $5 or so for injury replacements and such during the season. It all starts adding up and suddenly you don’t have enough for everybody and FAs. Not trying to be confrontational, but you just said exactly what I spelled out. White(17), Milano (13), Edmunds(13), Dawkins(13), Poyer(10), Hyde(10) = about $77 million How am I undervaluing? I'm fine with criticism, but you seem to agree with me on the total for those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/19/2019 at 9:12 AM, DrDawkinstein said: If he's a true outside DE then yes. He'd be a good upgrade to Shaq who will most likely walk in FA. If I had to overpay for one of them I'd probably go with Ngakoue. If it were up to me, MY defensive line would be: DE: Hughes - Draft Pick 1Tech: Harry - Vince Taylor 3Tech: JPhillips - Oliver DE: Ngakoue Still need a couple more players to pad the depth, but that would be my plan for starters, assuming we can't bring Shaq back on a reasonable deal. Edit: Cutting Star saves us $2M Cutting Murphy saves us $7M I'm ok with cutting both and throwing that money at Lawson to keep him in the rotation... DE: Hughes - Draft Pick 1Tech: Harry - Vince Taylor 3Tech: JPhillips - Oliver DE: Ngakoue - Lawson Cutting Star is still $8M hit in dead money.... dude was given a bad contract. He going no where next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 45 minutes ago, Chemical said: Not trying to be confrontational, but you just said exactly what I spelled out. White(17), Milano (13), Edmunds(13), Dawkins(13), Poyer(10), Hyde(10) = about $77 million How am I undervaluing? I'm fine with criticism, but you seem to agree with me on the total for those players. I thought I read 10M for Edmunds and Dawkins and 27M total for White and Milano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 40 minutes ago, MDH said: I thought I read 10M for Edmunds and Dawkins and 27M total for White and Milano. Yeah then I added 10 million to the total 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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