GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, GunnerBill said: He gets moved. I am sorry there is just no way around it. If you don't think he does we are never going to agree on what is expected of him. He is not the main reason that play happened. But he is eased out of the play. I see him blocking down. Moved is what happened to Phillips on the Scott TD. *EDIT apparently McD said bad playcall...which looks to me is what happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Only highlights but still- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP2SwXULebg The big run happens at 4:48. To me that is clearly a downblock; immediately turns pads inside his man to engage downhill toward RG. It's textbook. This looks like a called stunt on an anticipated passing down that either Oliver didn't get around quickly enough (or missed the call) or Eagles/Wentz checked into something that would beat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I see him blocking down. Moved is what happened to Phillips on the Scott TD. *EDIT apparently McD said bad playcall...which looks to me is what happened Lots of blame to go around but if you are giving Star a pass on that play you are in confirmation bias territory in my opinion. 10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I see him blocking down. Moved is what happened to Phillips on the Scott TD. *EDIT apparently McD said bad playcall...which looks to me is what happened And I agree his assignment is to block down but he sees the play tries to react and the Olineman just eases him out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 12 hours ago, QCity said: Star was a train-wreck against the Eagles. The loss of Harrison Phillips is really starting to show. I would expect Beane to bring in another 1-tech before Tuesday's trade deadline. Especially since a space eating DT shouldn't come at a high cost. Billings out of Cincy would make the most sense. Low cost on an expiring deal and fills the need to get bigger and more stout up the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Lots of blame to go around but if you are giving Star a pass on that play you are in confirmation bias territory in my opinion. And I agree his assignment is to block down but he sees the play tries to react and the Olineman just eases him out of the way. Which is consistent with most of his other snaps. The only time he can move laterally is with a helpful assist from the Guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 So, now its safe to call out probably the weakest link on our defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, GunnerBill said: Lots of blame to go around but if you are giving Star a pass on that play you are in confirmation bias territory in my opinion. Do you really not see his path on that play? That is a stunt. He has his shoulders turned inside before engaging. If he was just getting moved his hips would still be squared up. I seriously think you guys are misreading a TON of how this defensive line is supposed to operate. There are a lot of examples just in the highlights of our DEs left 1v1 and not getting home or generating pressure, of Lotulelei taking double teams and the other DT not beating his man, or how limited they are when he comes out on anything other than obvious passing downs w/Peko or whoever...I watched pretty much strictly DTs and imo it's pretty glaringly not on Lotulelei. No bias, just facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, GG said: Which is consistent with most of his other snaps. The only time he can move laterally is with a helpful assist from the Guard He's not being asked to move laterally. They need him because he is the only guy who can maintain leverage and take up extra man/space. It's very clear. Watch the first Goedert TD. Lotulelei double teamed and every other defensive lineman is left 1v1 as schemed. Zero pressure. Watch the pass to Jeffrey. They realize they can double Phillips on pass downs w/Lotulelei in and he (Phillips) gets tossed 5 yards backwards. Can't hold ground against double team at all. Watch Scott TD run with Lotulelei not in. Phillips absolutely bullied out of the way. It's very clear Lotulelei is not the singular issue on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Do you really not see his path on that play? That is a stunt. He has his shoulders turned inside before engaging. If he was just getting moved his hips would still be squared up. I seriously think you guys are misreading a TON of how this defensive line is supposed to operate. There are a lot of examples just in the highlights of our DEs left 1v1 and not getting home or generating pressure, of Lotulelei taking double teams and the other DT not beating his man, or how limited they are when he comes out on anything other than obvious passing downs w/Peko or whoever...I watched pretty much strictly DTs and imo it's pretty glaringly not on Lotulelei. No bias, just facts. I am sorry I think you are one misreading. It is not just on Star. But it is partly on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: He's not being asked to move laterally. They need him because he is the only guy who can maintain leverage and take up extra man/space. It's very clear. Watch the first Goedert TD. Lotulelei double teamed and every other defensive lineman is left 1v1 as schemed. Zero pressure. Watch the pass to Jeffrey. They realize they can double Phillips on pass downs w/Lotulelei in and he (Phillips) gets tossed 5 yards backwards. Can't hold ground against double team at all. Watch Scott TD run with Lotulelei not in. Phillips absolutely bullied out of the way. It's very clear Lotulelei is not the singular issue on the line. Skates does what to earn 10M a year again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 And when he's not in- they can put 1v1 on Peko/Phillips/Oliver and run the ball getting the extra offensive lineman on Edmunds. Happened very clearly on long Jordan Howard run in the 4th quarter w/9:22 left. Lotulelei keeps the backers clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: Skates does what to earn 10M a year again? He sometimes gets double teamed and is no less effective on those plays than on the ones where he singled. So that's a win. Apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: Skates does what to earn 10M a year again? If that's all you got it's pretty thin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, GoBills808 said: And when he's not in- they can put 1v1 on Peko/Phillips/Oliver and run the ball getting the extra offensive lineman on Edmunds. Happened very clearly on long Jordan Howard run in the 4th quarter w/9:22 left. Lotulelei keeps the backers clean. Except he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, GunnerBill said: He sometimes gets double teamed and is no less effective on those plays than on the ones where he singled. So that's a win. Apparently. same non tangible arguments to defend Skates are the same arguments I saw defending Tyrod as well. Just now, GoBills808 said: If that's all you got it's pretty thin so no defense for Skates. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, GunnerBill said: Except he doesn't. Show me where he doesn't. I've given you my examples. You guys want to blame one guy for the Eagles running the ball all over us, go ahead. But it's not accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, GoBills808 said: Show me where he doesn't. I've given you my examples. You guys want to blame one guy for the Eagles running the ball all over us, go ahead. But it's not accurate. Strawman alert!!! If I have blamed one guy it sure as hell isn't Star. I have said very clearly where I think the biggest problem lies. But Star is not keeping the backers clean. Even when singled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, GunnerBill said: Strawman alert!!! If I have blamed one guy it sure as hell isn't Star. I have said very clearly where I think the biggest problem lies. But Star is not keeping the backers clean. Even when singled. Sorry. The thread is about Lotulelei so I just assumed..I didn't mean to put words in your mouth if that's not what you said. 'Keeping the LBs clean' is just code for not allowing one of the olinemen to get into second level because they're occupied with a double. That's what happened on Agohlor TFL w/Milano. And he usually needs to be doubled because if they leave him 1v1 in pass downs he takes his guy backwards like what happened on Lawson sack in 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Sorry. The thread is about Lotulelei so I just assumed..I didn't mean to put words in your mouth if that's not what you said. 'Keeping the LBs clean' is just code for not allowing one of the olinemen to get into second level because they're occupied with a double. That's what happened on Agohlor TFL w/Milano. And he usually needs to be doubled because if they leave him 1v1 in pass downs he takes his guy backwards like what happened on Lawson sack in 1st. I think the biggest problem with the run D is linebacker gap assignment. The biggest difference between weeks 1 to 5 and weeks 6 and 7 has been the performance of Edmunds. He had show some really promising signs of progress early this year.... but the last 2 weeks has been major regression to 2018 form. He is misdiagnosing plays and constantly attacking the wrong gap. The long touchdown run it was Milano that got the wrong gap. That is the biggest issue on the run D and I have said that both weeks. But I don't think Star is playing as solid as you suggest. I think at some point he has to have more of an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 52 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Show me where he doesn't. I've given you my examples. You guys want to blame one guy for the Eagles running the ball all over us, go ahead. But it's not accurate. There's a 6+ minute tape that shows Star getting manhandled by a JV Dolphins line a few pages back. He was single blocked by Seumalo for most pf the game and essentially neutralized. I have no idea why you think Star's role in this defense is essentially to stand up, engage the blockers and do nothing else. Because that's his highlight reel this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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