ExWNYer Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 58 minutes ago, inaugural balls said: To hell with the kids. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On 7/27/2019 at 10:30 AM, BillsFan4 said: Im not so sure about that... ? Sorry, it was an auto correct on my IPad. Funny though. I can’t stand him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 12 hours ago, GunnerBill said: As I keep saying.... his pass rush efficiency numbers put him right up there with pretty much everyone. He was a tick less efficient than Mack last year and more efficient than Mack the year before. The reason Jadeveon Clowney doesn't get massive sack numbers is because he rushes less than almost all the guys putting up double digit sacks. He is in a different league to Olivier Vernon. If Clowney came into a defense where his job was hand in the dirt and go hunt that Quarterback every play he isn't just capable of 10 sacks... he would be in the high teens year after year. Character? Motivation? They are questions I think are legitimate. But the questions over his production stand up to absolutely no scrutiny. Spotrac even agrees with me and they are very good and normally really close to contract projections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 58 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Spotrac even agrees with me and they are very good and normally really close to contract projections. If we could get him for $17m I'd jump for joy. He will cost more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: If we could get him for $17m I'd jump for joy. He will cost more than that. Not getting into a Bidding War over Clowney. If he comes at about where is is valued I would be ok with signing him. However not getting into that Bidding war where I have another bad Contract on the DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: Not getting into a Bidding War over Clowney. If he comes at about where is is valued I would be ok with signing him. However not getting into that Bidding war where I have another bad Contract on the DL. It wouldn't be a bad contract. He is really, really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: It wouldn't be a bad contract. He is really, really good. Not according to here https://www.google.com/amp/s/texanswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/24/texans-jadeveon-clowney-worth-khalil-mack-money/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: Not according to here https://www.google.com/amp/s/texanswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/24/texans-jadeveon-clowney-worth-khalil-mack-money/amp/ Your source is Solomon Wilcots? Really? Yea. I'll stick with my own opinion over his. 100 times out of 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Your source is Solomon Wilcots? Really? Yea. I'll stick with my own opinion over his. 100 times out of 100. We don’t agree so fine. I will be fine with a 20M a year contract for him if they get out of the Bad Contract to Star. Only willing to risk carrying one bad contract on DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On 7/27/2019 at 9:24 AM, MAJBobby said: And how they are dealing with the holdout of Yannick Ngakoue. If THAT turns bad (and could with Marrone and Coughlin) Yannick is the DE I would give up assets and big contract for. http://www.nfl.com/player/yannickngakoue/2555421/profile Josh Allen stiff arm to the turf victim on a QB draw TD? I think that was him and, if so, that's all I know about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: We don’t agree so fine. I will be fine with a 20M a year contract for him if they get out of the Bad Contract to Star. Only willing to risk carrying one bad contract on DL. Yea. I think you are guilty of just looking at the bare numbers when it comes to Clowney. The tape and the advanced analytics show a different story. That said Wilcots is right on one thing - he won't get Mack money.... Mack is $23m p/a. He will get Frank Clark money. He is a better player than Clark. I don't think Clowney would be a bad contract. Star's is but they can't really get out until after 2020. Just now, JESSEFEFFER said: Josh Allen stiff arm to the turf victim on a QB draw TD? I think that was him and, if so, that's all I know about him. It was. He doesn't play the run very well. He is very much a pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea. I think you are guilty of just looking at the bare numbers when it comes to Clowney. The tape and the advanced analytics show a different story. That said Wilcots is right on one thing - he won't get Mack money.... Mack is $23m p/a. He will get Frank Clark money. He is a better player than Clark. I don't think Clowney would be a bad contract. Star's is but they can't really get out until after 2020. It was. He doesn't play the run very well. He is very much a pass rusher. But he isn’t. He is an AVG at best pass rusher. And a really good run defender. Plays across from all pro and Mercilus is better rusher than he is as well. 17M max I would go. With incentives Edited July 29, 2019 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: But he isn’t. He is an AVG at best pass rusher. And a really good run defender. Plays across from all pro and Mercilus is better rusher than he is as well When I said he is very much a pass rusher I was on about Ngakoue. That said you are 100% wrong about Clowney. He is an elite edge setter and a very good pass rusher. And while he isn't JJ Watt he is in a different league altogether to Whitney Mercilus who is a nice situational pass rusher and no more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea. I think you are guilty of just looking at the bare numbers when it comes to Clowney. The tape and the advanced analytics show a different story. That said Wilcots is right on one thing - he won't get Mack money.... Mack is $23m p/a. He will get Frank Clark money. He is a better player than Clark. I don't think Clowney would be a bad contract. Star's is but they can't really get out until after 2020. It was. He doesn't play the run very well. He is very much a pass rusher. Clowney has more years in NFL and has Less production than Frank Clark. So yeah not as good as Frank Clark hence value = Frank Clark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Clowney has more years in NFL and has Less production than Frank Clark. So yeah not as good as Frank Clark hence value = Frank Clark. No. He doesn't have less production. He has fewer sacks. Way more tackles and approaching double his tackles for loss. The reason he has fewer sacks as I have told you many times is he has fewer pass rush attempts. Frank Clark's pass rush win rate last season was 22%, Jadeveon Clowney's was 35%. The only two players in the NFL who had better pass rush win rates were Aaron Donald and Robert Quinn. The only reason Jadeveon Clowney doesn't have more sacks is because he is asked to rush the passer less than the people he is compared to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: No. He doesn't have less production. He has fewer sacks. Way more tackles and approaching double his tackles for loss. The reason he has fewer sacks as I have told you many times is he has fewer pass rush attempts. Frank Clark's pass rush win rate last season was 22%, Jadeveon Clowney's was 35%. The only two players in the NFL who had better pass rush win rates were Aaron Donald and Robert Quinn. The only reason Jadeveon Clowney doesn't have more sacks is because he is asked to rush the passer less than the people he is compared to. We can agree to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: We can agree to disagree We can. But you will need to bring more to the table than just "sack numbers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: We can. But you will need to bring more to the table than just "sack numbers". No I really don’t. But ok what is his production while hand in dirt face to face against on OT and Not having the benefit of Space as a Rush LBer in the 3-4. Cause you know it is all a projection of a 3-4 LBer to DE. Some can do it. (Hughes) many can’t. Edited July 29, 2019 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: No I really don’t. But ok what is his production while hand in dirt face to face against on OT and Not having the benefit of Space as a Rush LBer in the 3-4. Cause you know it is all a projection of a 3-4 LBer to DE. Some can do it. (Hughes) many can’t. Well 55% of his snaps in 2018 came at defensive end either in 3 or 4 man fronts. He only played OLB 28% of the time (the remainder broke down as 4% at DT, 12% as an off the ball inside backer and 1% as a slot defender). I don't have the numbers infront of me immediately to cross reference the position he lined up against his responsibilities on each individual play but it is wrong to suggest that he benefits greatly from playing primarily out in space. The guy is just an all round outstanding defender. Personally I think the Texans are mad to even consider letting him go. If he reaches the open market there will be a scrum to sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Well 55% of his snaps in 2018 came at defensive end either in 3 or 4 man fronts. He only played OLB 28% of the time (the remainder broke down as 4% at DT, 12% as an off the ball inside backer and 1% as a slot defender). I don't have the numbers infront of me immediately to cross reference the position he lined up against his responsibilities on each individual play but it is wrong to suggest that he benefits greatly from playing primarily out in space. The guy is just an all round outstanding defender. Personally I think the Texans are mad to even consider letting him go. If he reaches the open market there will be a scrum to sign him. And it is that Scrum I want to stay out of. Will NEVER live up to the Contract he is about to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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