Britbillsfan Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Henry is a career loser. Look at his w/l record. Willis is superior in each and every phase of their position. Why do you think that TD drafted Willis after TH had the big stats? Because there was no need? Because Travis is such a good RB? Please. Travis is a dog. He is a flea bitten dog to boot, and this is why we as Bills fans are hoping to trade him for an injured under acheiver. 295525[/snapback] Willis got picked because he was worth a number 2/3 pick overall if he had not been injured, the risk TD took was that if he could not get his knee back to strength it was a busted pick, but if he could you could be looking at having one of the best backs in the NFL for the decade (let alone just for a season or two). Whilst Travis is a good back no way could he be thought of as ever having a chance to achieve that kind of level of ability except through the most rose-tinted of glasses. TD was caned by a LOT of people over the pick as it was seen as not a need at the time. Travis had come off a very good year and the Bills were on the up and we draft a player a year away from playing, and probably another year from being able to play full out. Blaming Travis for the woeful defence of a few years back or the totally idiotic play calling from Gilbride after the opening game is bizarre. Mind you Travis can not pick up the blitz, is not a well rounded player, etc, etc - but Shelton for Travis is not a good trade - after all who else is really after Shelton. The lack of interest has a lot to do with there being a perceived glut of decent RBs at the moment (most teams are already set there) and Travis having only one year on his contract (not a problem for Arizona fortunately). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 This best represents what I feel has slipped by the eyes of the Henry detractors. While spending all that time telling us about his many flaws and how terrible he is, they failed to see him actually become a good pass receiver (right down to the play he got injured on last year) and improve his fumble numbers greatly over the past 2 seasons. As stated, no, he does not compare to Willis in his completeness, but his improvements have been missed. 295269[/snapback] OK, then let me ask you this....where are the trade offers? One poster thinks that he can "easily" gain 1500 yards. Again, where are the offers? Serious question: If a team, any team, called TD and offered up a 2nd round pick for TH, do you think that TD would take it? You see, I do, especially with the draft creeping up, yet he is still on the team. My point is that if TH was as highly regarded around the league as he is on this board, this conversation would be a moot point. He would already have been traded to another team for a high pick or a good player. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 OK, then let me ask you this....where are the trade offers? One poster thinks that he can "easily" gain 1500 yards. Again, where are the offers? 295918[/snapback] pleasefortheloveofgodstop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Isn't this something like the 150th time that Clayton's changed his position on a Henry Trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Isn't this something like the 150th time that Clayton's changed his position on a Henry Trade? 296016[/snapback] Come on now, he is not JP-era, it is only the 137th time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Come on now, he is not JP-era, it is only the 137th time. 296021[/snapback] Clayton=RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Why no way? If no one wants Henry but them you say we just keep him? What the benefit in that? If they won't swap picks, they won't swap picks. Both teams need to make the deal otherwise everyone loses when the players get released. We need a LT, I say make the deal and cut Teague. No point in paying a guy 4 million to be average center. We could pay Tucker to be that. 295692[/snapback] Henry is NOT getting released. He's the best backup runningback in the NFL right now. I think most here would agree this is a benefit. Just because teams are not clamoring for him right now doesn't mean we HAVE to get what ever we can for him. Runningbacks get hurt in this league. That's an undisputable fact. Do you think the Bills won't have some bargaining power when this happens the first couple of weeks into the season? Eventually, they'll get either a 2nd rounder or Shelton and a swap with Arizona for Henry. There is NO benifit for the Bills just GIVING Henry away for Shelton. Unless you are a foolish GM, which TD is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Henry is NOT getting released. He's the best backup runningback in the NFL right now. I think most here would agree this is a benefit. Just because teams are not clamoring for him right now doesn't mean we HAVE to get what ever we can for him. Runningbacks get hurt in this league. That's an undisputable fact. Do you think the Bills won't have some bargaining power when this happens the first couple of weeks into the season? Eventually, they'll get either a 2nd rounder or Shelton and a swap with Arizona for Henry. There is NO benifit for the Bills just GIVING Henry away for Shelton. Unless you are a foolish GM, which TD is not. 296052[/snapback] There is clearly a benefit to giving Henry for Shelton. We probably need a starter at LT and Shelton would be an adequate if not good replacement for JJ. Henry is going to be a back-up. I have supported Travis as much as anyone here but it is just as dumb to say there is no benefit to giving Henry away for Shelton as it is to say that Henry is worthless. Henry for Shelton player-for-player may not be a fair trade (although it just as easily could be) and yet still be a good trade for the Bills even if we get the short end. You always want to better your team. A Bills team with Shelton starting is probably better than a Bills team with Henry backing up, even though I agree a back-up RB is an important position. It would also allow us to be a lot more flexible in the draft. TD is (rightfully) trying to get the best deal possible for Travis, and he is a good gambler. It may very well be, however, when draft day comes he feels the straight player for player is the best deal he can get, and it will make the Bills a better team overall. At this point, I think a Bills team with Shelton and, say, Anthony Thomas as a back-up to Willis, would be slightly better than a Bills team with Travis and the OT equivalent in talent and salary cap of Anthony Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 There is clearly a benefit to giving Henry for Shelton. We probably need a starter at LT and Shelton would be an adequate if not good replacement for JJ. Henry is going to be a back-up. I have supported Travis as much as anyone here but it is just as dumb to say there is no benefit to giving Henry away for Shelton as it is to say that Henry is worthless. Henry for Shelton player-for-player may not be a fair trade (although it just as easily could be) and yet still be a good trade for the Bills even if we get the short end. You always want to better your team. A Bills team with Shelton starting is probably better than a Bills team with Henry backing up, even though I agree a back-up RB is an important position. It would also allow us to be a lot more flexible in the draft. TD is (rightfully) trying to get the best deal possible for Travis, and he is a good gambler. It may very well be, however, when draft day comes he feels the straight player for player is the best deal he can get, and it will make the Bills a better team overall. At this point, I think a Bills team with Shelton and, say, Anthony Thomas as a back-up to Willis, would be slightly better than a Bills team with Travis and the OT equivalent in talent and salary cap of Anthony Thomas. 296076[/snapback] Madieu Williams. Who's Madieu Williams? He's the free safety the Bengals got in return for trading Cory Dillon to New England. You wait and trade for value, not in a state of desperation. Shelton is a bum who could not even be a starter on the lowly Arizona Cardinals. Travis Henry is a powerful runningback that has proven his toughness in the NFL. If there are no takers then so be it, do not trade Henry for that bum of a player straight up. It's a bad deal, and the Bills are not about doing bad deals my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Madieu Williams. Who's Madieu Williams? He's the free safety the Bengals got in return for trading Cory Dillon to New England. You wait and trade for value, not in a state of desperation. Shelton is a bum who could not even be a starter on the lowly Arizona Cardinals. Travis Henry is a powerful runningback that has proven his toughness in the NFL. If there are no takers then so be it, do not trade Henry for that bum of a player straight up. It's a bad deal, and the Bills are not about doing bad deals my friend. 296301[/snapback] Yeah, I know. I had him for a while on my fantasy team. He's one of the better young defensive backs around. I wish we had him. He had 103 tackles, 86 solo, 2 sacks, a couple fumbles and 3 INTS including one for a TD as a rookie. The Bengals were a better team with Madieu back there than they would have been without him and disgruntled Corey Dillon on the bench behind Rudi Johnson. Even though Dillon is a better player. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Yeah, I know. I had him for a while on my fantasy team. He's one of the better young defensive backs around. I wish we had him. He had 103 tackles, 86 solo, 2 sacks, a couple fumbles and 3 INTS including one for a TD as a rookie. The Bengals were a better team with Madieu back there than they would have been without him and disgruntled Corey Dillon on the bench behind Rudi Johnson. Even though Dillon is a better player. Try again. 296321[/snapback] Probowl runningback vs "one of the better young defensive backs around"? Hmmmmmmm...I think I take the probowl runningback that helped lead his team to a Superbowl victory. Nice try, though not quite good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I recall many here last year said they wouldn't want anything to do with Dillon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Probowl runningback vs "one of the better young defensive backs around"? Hmmmmmmm...I think I take the probowl runningback that helped lead his team to a Superbowl victory. Nice try, though not quite good enough. 296373[/snapback] Not the point. Apparently, you didn't read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fla Bills Fan Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I think the reason TD does not trade Travis for Shelton straight up is Draft picks. Jennings was signed to a very large contract by the 49'ers. If the Bills do not replace him they will receive a high compensory pick. If they do, they will not get that pick - which is why the Bills got no pick for losing Winfield, they got Vincent to replace him. I think TD feels if they get Shelton (who is just as good as Jennings & does not have the injury problems) + change of #2 picks that is value & he makes the trade. Without the swap of picks the Bills keep Travis ( either for back up or draft pick - if a deal can be made) & receive the compensory pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 When you're reduced to this as your sig: "It's not the size of the cardinal in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the cardinal .'' - Floridacard Its time to admit the awful truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I think the reason TD does not trade Travis for Shelton straight up is Draft picks. Jennings was signed to a very large contract by the 49'ers. If the Bills do not replace him they will receive a high compensory pick. If they do, they will not get that pick - which is why the Bills got no pick for losing Winfield, they got Vincent to replace him. I think TD feels if they get Shelton (who is just as good as Jennings & does not have the injury problems) + change of #2 picks that is value & he makes the trade. Without the swap of picks the Bills keep Travis ( either for back up or draft pick - if a deal can be made) & receive the compensory pick. Not true. Comp picks are gained by having a net loss of UFA's, up to a max of 3 IIRC, and whose salaries and/or performances outweigh those who were gained by the team. So only players that the Bills signed as UFA's count, and unless they become Pro Bowlers, the Bills are looking at high comp picks for losing Winfield, Jennings, and Williams, not matter who they trade for or sign after being cut (in which case they'd merely be a FA, not an UFA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Not the point. Apparently, you didn't read. 296425[/snapback] I read it again and I still think the Bengals/ Patriots trade sucked for the Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfWade Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 So only players that the Bills signed as UFA's count, and unless they become Pro Bowlers, the Bills are looking at high comp picks for losing Winfield, Jennings, and Williams, not matter who they trade for or sign after being cut (in which case they'd merely be a FA, not an UFA). 296861[/snapback] Unfortunately, the Bills received nothing for losing Winfield (probably because they signed Vincent and Villarial, thus evening out the "mystical" NFL compensation pick formula). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Unfortunately, the Bills received nothing for losing Winfield (probably because they signed Vincent and Villarial, thus evening out the "mystical" NFL compensation pick formula). Doh! Sorry about that. For some reason I thought Winfield was lost this past off-season. But that still leaves Jennings and Williams as potentially high-round comp picks, assuming Gandy or Anderson don't make the Pro Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fla Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Doh! Sorry about that. For some reason I thought Winfield was lost this past off-season. But that still leaves Jennings and Williams as potentially high-round comp picks, assuming Gandy or Anderson don't make the Pro Bowl. 296905[/snapback] Or another player they may yet sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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