Mandatory retesting for driver's license

[Buffalo_Gal]

8 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

 I enjoy driving sans the poor fellow motorists.  I'm kind of a throwback in that I like to drive around and look at things.  I want to do a day trip to Ithaca this summer including the Cornell campus since I am an alumni.  The campus is far more restricted for vehicle use when a semester is going versus the summertime.  I also would not mind looking up some college acquaintances between WNY and the Southern Tier.  One guy I knew well freshman year has no trail whatsoever on the internet.  I know where the uncle lives so I might stop there to just know if this guy is still around.  If this guy wants no contact I will respect that as well.  This probably should go into another thread.

I spent a lot of time on the Cornell campus the last 4-5 years (mostly around the vet school). We would take some drives through campus though as Hubby is an alumni and liked to see the changes. They really reworked stuff to make room for bikes, but still have the dumb one-way bridges on the outer edges. I always entered as close as possible to the vet school so as to avoid the hordes of student crossings on campus. 

If you are going anytime except winter, stop at the botanical  gardens, they are very nice. The dairy bar sells the cheese and milk they make on campus (and coffee, food, ice cream etc), but the store that is in the orchard (Cornell Orchards, 709 Dryden Rd,) also sells the dairy stuff, plus the apples and pears from the Cornell orchards and the parking for that store is free, unlike for the dairy store. 

If you want any winery recommendations, I have a load! ? 

[RochesterRob]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I spent a lot of time on the Cornell campus the last 4-5 years (mostly around the vet school). We would take some drives through campus though as Hubby is an alumni and liked to see the changes. They really reworked stuff to make room for bikes, but still have the dumb one-way bridges on the outer edges. I always entered as close as possible to the vet school so as to avoid the hordes of student crossings on campus. 

If you are going anytime except winter, stop at the botanical  gardens, they are very nice. The dairy bar sells the cheese and milk they make on campus (and coffee, food, ice cream etc), but the store that is in the orchard (Cornell Orchards, 709 Dryden Rd,) also sells the dairy stuff, plus the apples and pears from the Cornell orchards and the parking for that store is free, unlike for the dairy store. 

If you want any winery recommendations, I have a load! ? 

  I would imagine that access is restricted w/o a permit as far as Tower Rd and the general vicinity goes.  Used to be you could drive after 7PM and before 6AM w/o a permit even during semester but I don' think that is the case anymore.  I lived on North Campus which had virtually no restrictions.  

[BuffaloBill]

On 6/27/2019 at 4:31 PM, RaoulDuke79 said:

I had to stop behind a mail truck today because a car was coming in the opposite lane and the truck behind me had to lock up his brakes and nearly rear ended me, then proceeded to cuss me out.

 

 

Well you were in his way you stupid *****.

[SoTier]

On 6/27/2019 at 4:04 PM, RochesterRob said:

  I'm a little peeved after the 4th encounter this week with people who can't remember the rules concerning right of way at an intersection.  Also, some guy following me in the village limits where it is 30MPH and I can't see him from either door mirror.  County road posted at 55 MPH and I make turn while visibly clear from left and 100 feet after my turn some guy is just about up my tail pipe.  He had to be going 80 plus MPH.  I will give out a kudos to the guy who used hand signals to indicate a turn while towing a junk vehicle as well as using the magnetic temp mount signal lights.  

 

What makes you think that mandatory retesting is going to do anything about these problems?   In the first instance, that's one question on a written test.  People study for tests, and just because people know the rules doesn't mean that they follow them.  People practice for road tests, too, and are on their best behavior.  Most of the problems you described have to do with attitude not with knowledge or skill.

[SoTier]

On 6/27/2019 at 10:27 PM, I am the egg man said:

Wait till illegals get their expedited licences in N.Y. No one is gonna be failed on their road test

 

 Ticketed illegals will be given amnesty by State traffic courts and likely the local ones too. 

 

No need for them to follow the law driving a car anymore. That'll liven up driving in the upstate cities.

 

"Illegals" are already driving in NY and in every other state -- without licenses -- so how is being able to acquire a valid drivers license -- which means learning the basic rules of the road, having basic safety training, and proving they can safely operate a motor vehicle -- going to make them worse drivers?  

[RochesterRob]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

What makes you think that mandatory retesting is going to do anything about these problems?   In the first instance, that's one question on a written test.  People study for tests, and just because people know the rules doesn't mean that they follow them.  People practice for road tests, too, and are on their best behavior.  Most of the problems you described have to do with attitude not with knowledge or skill.

  Attitude changes when the consequences are increased.  I would question that knowledge is not an issue.  Some people forget things and some got lucky on the test that certain topics did not turn up on their test.  The bottom line is driving is getting to be more hazardous than it should be due to other drivers.  Like I said earlier in this thread I could have wound up in the ER or worse last Thursday due to somebody's attitude.  I don't know if the guy's grin was due to smugness or embarrassment as he went by.

[row_33]

37 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

What makes you think that mandatory retesting is going to do anything about these problems?   In the first instance, that's one question on a written test.  People study for tests, and just because people know the rules doesn't mean that they follow them.  People practice for road tests, too, and are on their best behavior.  Most of the problems you described have to do with attitude not with knowledge or skill.

 

it's all about your attitude behind the wheel, that gets permanent after a few years of driving, unless you get really woke and shook into being a decent person

 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

it's all about your attitude behind the wheel, that gets permanent after a few years of driving, unless you get really woke and shook into being a decent person

 

 

This is why I don't think mandatory re-testing is a realistic solution. It's a simplistic reaction to a complex problem that advocates can say, "see, we doing something", but it just lumps the innocent in with the guilty.   Most people are not bad drivers. We don't notice them when they do the right things simply because there are so many vehicles on most roads that bad ones are easy to spot Sometimes they do stupid stuff that they know they shouldn't do.  Sometimes they don't actually know the absolute letter of the law in regard to a certain situation.  Sometimes they're in situations where in an instant, they make a wrong decision.

 

Education for the general driving population and targeted punishment for rule breakers is a much more productive strategy, although it's a harder solution to implement.  The dramatic decline in traffic fatalities from accidents involving alcohol demonstrates that it can be done.  In the 1970s, 60% of traffic deaths were caused from alcohol related accidents.  Today, only 25% of traffic fatalities stem from alcohol/drug impairment.  That was accomplished by anti-drunk driving campaigns, significantly raising the penalties for drunk/impaired convictions (license suspension or revocation and even jail time), lowering the thresholds from alcohol impairment levels, and raising the drinking age in almost all states as well as a change in attitude on the part of police and the courts about the seriousness of DUI. 

 

Mandating a safe driver/defensive driving course prior to license renewal seems to me to be a sounder approach for dealing with general driver attitudes than simply requiring re-testing.   It provides a vehicle (pardon the pun) for reminding/refreshing the average drivers' knowledge of the best safety practices/rules of the road without threatening those who aren't good test takers with loss of their licenses.

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by SoTier

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

This is why I don't think mandatory re-testing is a realistic solution. It's a simplistic reaction to a complex problem that advocates can say, "see, we doing something", but it just lumps the innocent in with the guilty.   Most people are not bad drivers. We don't notice them when they do the right things simply because there are so many vehicles on most roads that bad ones are easy to spot Sometimes they do stupid stuff that they know they shouldn't do.  Sometimes they don't actually know the absolute letter of the law in regard to a certain situation.  Sometimes they're in situations where in an instant, they make a wrong decision.

 

Education for the general driving population and targeted punishment for rule breakers is a much more productive strategy, although it's a harder solution to implement.  The dramatic decline in traffic fatalities from accidents involving alcohol demonstrates that it can be done.  In the 1970s, 60% of traffic deaths were caused from alcohol related accidents.  Today, only 25% of traffic fatalities stem from alcohol/drug impairment.  That was accomplished by anti-drunk driving campaigns, significantly raising the penalties for drunk/impaired convictions (license suspension or revocation and even jail time), lowering the thresholds from alcohol impairment levels, and raising the drinking age in almost all states as well as a change in attitude on the part of police and the courts about the seriousness of DUI. 

 

Mandating a safe driver/defensive driving course prior to license renewal seems to me to be a sounder approach for dealing with general driver attitudes than simply requiring re-testing.   It provides a vehicle (pardon the pun) for reminding/refreshing the average drivers' knowledge of the best safety practices/rules of the road without threatening those who aren't good test takers with loss of their licenses.

 

  The reduction of alcohol related automobile fatalities have much more to do with personal cost including imprisonment.  These would include legal fees (fines), lost income, lawyer's fees, imprisonment, and resulting lawsuits.  A dozen such incidents in each 5,000 person burg soon makes others wary about jumping behind the wheel hammered.  They think about the guy who USED TO have a home, wife/ girlfriend/ family, car, and job who now lives in the crap apartment building, rides a bike when it is 0 degrees F out, wife and kids cut them out of their lives, and part time work at Walmart and Jiffy Lube.  I know plenty of people who laughed at the PSA ads during the 1970's which only talked about how wrong it was but never pointed out the devastation to the offending party.  The only thing that reached the laughers was seeing a real person's life in shambles.

Edited June 29, 2019 by RochesterRob

[row_33]

13 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The reduction of alcohol related automobile fatalities have much more to do with personal cost including imprisonment.  These would include legal fees, lost income, lawyer's fees, imprisonment, and resulting lawsuits.  A dozen such incidents in each 5,000 person burg soon makes others wary about jumping behind the wheel hammered.  They think about the guy who USED TO have a home, wife/ girlfriend/ family, car, and job who now lives in the crap apartment building, rides a bike when it is 0 degrees F out, wife and kids cut them out of their lives, and part time work at Walmart and Jiffy Lube.  I know plenty of people who laughed at the PSA ads during the 1970's which only talked about how wrong it was but never pointed out the devastation to the offending party.  The only thing that reached the laughers was seeing a real person's life in shambles.

 

 

two fathers of school friends each killed people while drunk behind the wheel, served 6 and 8 years for it

 

pretty heavy stuff for people who did nothing remotely that serious the rest of their lives

 

 

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

 

two fathers of school friends each killed people while drunk behind the wheel, served 6 and 8 years for it

 

pretty heavy stuff for people who did nothing remotely that serious the rest of their lives

 

 

  And if it is like I was told for NY the state starting in the 1990's for the most part there was no more soft jail time for serious DWI offenders.  No more 15 months at the chronically under utilized facility in the Adirondack's.  A friend who work NYSDOC often talked about somebody going to Elmira or Auburn for a few years.  The same offender would be crying the first week that it was all a huge mistake that they were sent to a maximum security facility.

[SoTier]

36 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The reduction of alcohol related automobile fatalities have much more to do with personal cost including imprisonment.  These would include legal fees (fines), lost income, lawyer's fees, imprisonment, and resulting lawsuits.  A dozen such incidents in each 5,000 person burg soon makes others wary about jumping behind the wheel hammered.  They thdriink about the guy who USED TO have a home, wife/ girlfriend/ family, car, and job who now lives in the crap apartment building, rides a bike when it is 0 degrees F out, wife and kids cut them out of their lives, and part time work at Walmart and Jiffy Lube.  I know plenty of people who laughed at the PSA ads during the 1970's which only talked about how wrong it was but never pointed out the devastation to the offending party.  The only thing that reached the laughers was seeing a real person's life in shambles.

 

That's essentially my point.  You make it costly for those who break the rules, you make others aware of the consequences, and you offer alternatives (like designated drivers, free taxi rides, etc.) -- and you make the penalties fit the seriousness of the offense.    Mandating that all drivers re-test every so many years is not going to do anything about drunk driving.  It's not going to lower the number of accidents involving texting while driving or speeding or other bad behavior.  People who behave badly know their behavior is bad but they don't care.  All it does is unnecessarily punish people with the threat of losing their driving privileges when they've done nothing wrong.

 

[RochesterRob]

19 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

That's essentially my point.  You make it costly for those who break the rules, you make others aware of the consequences, and you offer alternatives (like designated drivers, free taxi rides, etc.) -- and you make the penalties fit the seriousness of the offense.    Mandating that all drivers re-test every so many years is not going to do anything about drunk driving.  It's not going to lower the number of accidents involving texting while driving or speeding or other bad behavior.  People who behave badly know their behavior is bad but they don't care.  All it does is unnecessarily punish people with the threat of losing their driving privileges when they've done nothing wrong.

 

  Rule breakers have to be caught to be punished and the cops can't be everywhere all the time.  I doub't that I would want that many cops around or monitoring devices as that would be too much Big Brother.

[ExiledInIllinois]

28 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

That's essentially my point.  You make it costly for those who break the rules, you make others aware of the consequences, and you offer alternatives (like designated drivers, free taxi rides, etc.) -- and you make the penalties fit the seriousness of the offense.    Mandating that all drivers re-test every so many years is not going to do anything about drunk driving.  It's not going to lower the number of accidents involving texting while driving or speeding or other bad behavior.  People who behave badly know their behavior is bad but they don't care.  All it does is unnecessarily punish people with the threat of losing their driving privileges when they've done nothing wrong.

 

What about poor communities that are hit especially hard by the regressive, $$$$$ driven ticky tacky infractions that hit these communities hard.

 

It ain't helping.  Just a downward spiral of over officious jerks bringing in revenue to insufficiently funded departments.

 

Race to the botton.  You can't get blood out of a stone. The poorer workers are the ones that most likely can't keep all their ***** straight and together.

 

How about community service in lieu of a fine?  Work them.

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

What about poor communities that are hit especially hard by the regressive, $$$$$ driven ticky tacky infractions that hit these communities hard.

 

It ain't helping.  Just a downward spiral of over officious jerks bringing in revenue to insufficiently funded departments.

 

Race to the botton.  You can't get blood out of a stone. The poorer workers are the ones that most likely can't keep all their ***** straight and together.

 

How about community service in lieu of a fine?  Work them.

  You've been through Wayne County, NY I take it?  I would be happy with like a 100 question open book test.  No reason to fail because your memory can't pull 100 pieces of information up in 90 minutes like when you were younger.  Since it is open book you really don't need a proctor so it could be done online from a person's home.  I would be happy if one question on the test caused a person to think about a deficiency in their operation of a vehicle.

[ExiledInIllinois]

37 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  You've been through Wayne County, NY I take it?  I would be happy with like a 100 question open book test.  No reason to fail because your memory can't pull 100 pieces of information up in 90 minutes like when you were younger.  Since it is open book you really don't need a proctor so it could be done online from a person's home.  I would be happy if one question on the test caused a person to think about a deficiency in their operation of a vehicle.

I am agreeing with this. But you're dreaming.  Whatever gets people through the day.   Then there are the one's where breaking the rules and getting caught is the "cost of doing business."

 

Most people simply don't give a two *****!

 

I was up in Burlington, Vermont... By the Lake.  Had to feed the meters.  A Mass Hole pulls up: "Oh, I don't use those things." Yankee douchbag or just frugal?  Yeah, just a meter, but wonder how that Massachusetts influence translates to his driving on the open road? All big urban areas are pretty messed up... But most states don't have to park a mandatory trooper in a construction zone to just sit there and keep the workers safe.

Edited June 29, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[apuszczalowski]

Over a week ago I was driving to work in my new truck, it was wet and rainy, and I couldn't see the car behind me for half my drive to work. All I could see was a blue line over the top of my tailgate they were on me so close. It was kind of a rural type highway with only one lane on either side.

 

Then today, I was a passenger in a van with someone I work for doing drafting work on the side, we were heading to a house to get some measurements for a quick plan and about a couple blocks from the place we went through a busy intersection and got tboned by a small pickup who ran the red light. He was an older guy who definitely wasn't paying attention because it's a road with 2 lanes on both sides and a turning lane with cars sitting at the light. The guy got out of his truck and even admitted fault, he had a small dog in it with him.

[SoTier]

18 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

Over a week ago I was driving to work in my new truck, it was wet and rainy, and I couldn't see the car behind me for half my drive to work. All I could see was a blue line over the top of my tailgate they were on me so close. It was kind of a rural type highway with only one lane on either side.

 

Then today, I was a passenger in a van with someone I work for doing drafting work on the side, we were heading to a house to get some measurements for a quick plan and about a couple blocks from the place we went through a busy intersection and got tboned by a small pickup who ran the red light. He was an older guy who definitely wasn't paying attention because it's a road with 2 lanes on both sides and a turning lane with cars sitting at the light. The guy got out of his truck and even admitted fault, he had a small dog in it with him.

 

Was the dog sitting in his lap and hanging out the window?   I see this all the time around here, and it po's me no end.  It's dangerous for the driver and dangerous for the dog.   I learned my lesson about having an unrestrained dog in a vehicle in an accident 30 years ago (also learned first hand about the perils of falling asleep while driving) when I nodded off on the Thruway outside Utica, woke up as I was veering off the shoulder, cranked that steering wheel hard left and rolled my ten month old Nissan pickup.  Because I was wearing my seatbelt, I ended up hanging upside down for several minutes until somebody helped me down, but my dog, sleeping in the extra cab space, dashed out the broken window, and sprinted along the side of Thruway.  Lucky for me and my pup, he ran along near the fence and some Thruway staff collected him and took him to a local kennel.  Ever since, my dogs ride secured with dog seatbelts, even around town.  My current dog, a 14 week old Aussie cattle dog mix, rides in a crate right now, but he'll graduate to a seat belt in a while.  I believe 1 or 2 states now require dogs and other pets to be secured in vehicles, and I think there's been talk of NY doing the same.  Great idea for both drivers and their pets.

[Nextmanup]

On 6/27/2019 at 4:04 PM, RochesterRob said:

  I'm a little peeved after the 4th encounter this week with people who can't remember the rules concerning right of way at an intersection.  Also, some guy following me in the village limits where it is 30MPH and I can't see him from either door mirror.  County road posted at 55 MPH and I make turn while visibly clear from left and 100 feet after my turn some guy is just about up my tail pipe.  He had to be going 80 plus MPH.  I will give out a kudos to the guy who used hand signals to indicate a turn while towing a junk vehicle as well as using the magnetic temp mount signal lights.  

IMO, the guy going 80mph is never going to the be the problem.

 

It's the people going 30mph below the speed limit talking on telephones or texting their friends while they drive that scare the hell out of me.

 

Driving on American highways is a highly dangerous, scary activity.  

 

It's a free-for-all with everyone making up their own rules on the fly and never really knowing what anyone is going to do.

 

 

On 6/27/2019 at 5:23 PM, Cripple Creek said:

Offensive driving at its worst. Oh, you want to change lanes? Let me speed up and block you.

 

course testing doesn’t fix any of this

Aggressive, assertive driving done by a driver paying attention to what's going on around them is always going to avoid more trouble than create it.

 

The danger comes from horribly passive, scared drivers, and drivers who are not paying attention to what they are doing or to the road around them.  That can be for a variety of reasons.  Cruise control (should be illegal), texting, talking on phone hands-free or otherwise, being drunk, fighting with someone in the car (I've seen that before), etc..

 

 

[apuszczalowski]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Was the dog sitting in his lap and hanging out the window?   I see this all the time around here, and it po's me no end.  It's dangerous for the driver and dangerous for the dog.   I learned my lesson about having an unrestrained dog in a vehicle in an accident 30 years ago (also learned first hand about the perils of falling asleep while driving) when I nodded off on the Thruway outside Utica, woke up as I was veering off the shoulder, cranked that steering wheel hard left and rolled my ten month old Nissan pickup.  Because I was wearing my seatbelt, I ended up hanging upside down for several minutes until somebody helped me down, but my dog, sleeping in the extra cab space, dashed out the broken window, and sprinted along the side of Thruway.  Lucky for me and my pup, he ran along near the fence and some Thruway staff collected him and took him to a local kennel.  Ever since, my dogs ride secured with dog seatbelts, even around town.  My current dog, a 14 week old Aussie cattle dog mix, rides in a crate right now, but he'll graduate to a seat belt in a while.  I believe 1 or 2 states now require dogs and other pets to be secured in vehicles, and I think there's been talk of NY doing the same.  Great idea for both drivers and their pets.

I have no idea where the dog was, it wasn't injured and didn't appear shaken up so I doubt it was on his lap or window as the airbags would have done some damage.