Doc Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, MJS said: Pretty small sample size. They also missed the playoffs without him in 2008. And that team was coming off their undefeated regular season and a Superbowl appearance. It's a decent sample size and it was mostly with nobody QB's (Jimmy G is still largely unproven but only accounted for 2 of those wins). And they went 11-5 in 2008 with Cassel barely getting any meaningful reps to that point and only missing-out on the playoffs because no one had an answer for Miami's Wildcat formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc said: Brady's a great QB. But the fact remains that the Cheaters are 14-6 without him. You never fail to double down on a bad take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 34 minutes ago, NoSaint said: You never fail to double down on a bad take What bad take? Your strawman that I allegedly said Scarnecchia is more important than Brady? Or that the Cheaters can and have won without Brady? I never said the former and even acknowledged that Brady is a great QB, and as for the latter, it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Doc said: It's a decent sample size and it was mostly with nobody QB's (Jimmy G is still largely unproven but only accounted for 2 of those wins). And they went 11-5 in 2008 with Cassel barely getting any meaningful reps to that point and only missing-out on the playoffs because no one had an answer for Miami's Wildcat formation. They went 11-5 because they had a stacked team that went undefeated the year before and had a weak schedule. Miami also had a weak schedule, and that showed the next year when they had a bad season with a tougher schedule. Of course, the Bills couldn't capitalize on the weak schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Shaw66 said: This is true, but it's not about Brady as much as it's about Belichick. Brady gets rid of the ball fast because Belichick understood faster than everyone else that there simply isn't any way to protect the QB consistently the way teams could do it 20 years ago. Pass rushers are too good, and schemes are too complicated, to expect your blockers to build a nice, safe pocket, play after play. Belichick accepted that reality and asked himself how to deal with it. The way to deal with it is to have an offense where you virtually always can get a receiver open quickly, regardless of what defense you're looking at, and have a QB and receivers who can recognize the situation and react to it. Brady is about as good at it as you can imagine. He's smart, quick and accurate. But it works because Belichick's schemes always have someone open quickly; Brady is just the guy who takes advantage of it. I think that's one of the reasons we heard McBeane say after last season ended that they have to get Allen to take the easy short throw. They've learned from Belichick and Brady that you can have something like a 90% completion percentage on those throws - they're short, the receiver typically is wide open, and the pass rush doesn't have time to bother you. It is, in fact, the modern substitute for the effective running games 60 years ago. You can complete those passes all day long - that's why you see QBs completing 15 passes in a row sometimes. And it's particularly effective because once defenses react to try to stop that maddening short stuff, by dropping linebackers wider and shallower, you start finding receivers 15 yards down field over the middle with no defender within five yards, so you throw it to him. McBeane want to make Allen Brady-effective. He's smart, he's committed, and seems like he's the kind of guy who work in a system like that. If he can, the Bills could have the GOAT, because if he can play in his head like Brady, he's bigger, stronger, faster and has a better arm than Brady. I disagree, strongly. It's more about Brady. When you've got him at QB it gives you a ton more latitude elsewhere. Look at Belichick's history in Cleveland. And yeah they protect Brady very well, but he is one of the absolute best movers at QB in football. Not most athletic movers, of course. But he keeps his eyes downfield while moving away from pressure in the pocket as well as or better than anyone else in football. Brady also hits small windows in short and medium throws as well as anyone around, and processes things extremely fast too. Maybe Belichick did build an offense with quicker releases earlier than anyone, though there are other coaches who've worked hard on the same thing earlier or around the same time. But people now know the Belichick system. They know you need a skittery waterbug guy, a Welker/Edelman type, an RB who can catch and bunch formations and picks. Plenty of teams have caught on to that. And yet none of them are as good as the Pats. Why? None of those teams have Tom Brady. The problem with a system that so stresses short passes is the obvious one. You have to run more plays, you have to make more good throws, and there are more chances for QB errors. Hell, most defenses in the league try to take away long throws and force teams to nickel-and-dime down the field. It's in the defense's best interest. So how come nobody runs it, after all this time, as well as the Pats? Brady simply makes fewer mistakes. Defenses force you to dink-and-dunk because more passes means the QB has more chances to make mistakes. Drives with more plays bog down a higher percentage of the time. Brady drives teams nuts by not making those mistakes. He's simply better. Edited April 8, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlonce Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) Patriot linemen do not fare well outside of Boston. Reason? They don’t have Tom Brady to make them look great. Theres no coach that makes them great, it’s not Bellicheks drafting(which isn’t very good,btw). Its simply TB. Ditch the ball in under 2 seconds and you will never see a sack. Its getting ridiculous, all these bogus reasons as to why the Patriots win. There’s a very simple answer. Edited April 8, 2019 by dlonce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlonce Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 18 hours ago, Shaw66 said: This is true, but it's not about Brady as much as it's about Belichick. Brady gets rid of the ball fast because Belichick understood faster than everyone else that there simply isn't any way to protect the QB consistently the way teams could do it 20 years ago. Pass rushers are too good, and schemes are too complicated, to expect your blockers to build a nice, safe pocket, play after play. Belichick accepted that reality and asked himself how to deal with it. The way to deal with it is to have an offense where you virtually always can get a receiver open quickly, regardless of what defense you're looking at, and have a QB and receivers who can recognize the situation and react to it. Brady is about as good at it as you can imagine. He's smart, quick and accurate. But it works because Belichick's schemes always have someone open quickly; Brady is just the guy who takes advantage of it. I think that's one of the reasons we heard McBeane say after last season ended that they have to get Allen to take the easy short throw. They've learned from Belichick and Brady that you can have something like a 90% completion percentage on those throws - they're short, the receiver typically is wide open, and the pass rush doesn't have time to bother you. It is, in fact, the modern substitute for the effective running games 60 years ago. You can complete those passes all day long - that's why you see QBs completing 15 passes in a row sometimes. And it's particularly effective because once defenses react to try to stop that maddening short stuff, by dropping linebackers wider and shallower, you start finding receivers 15 yards down field over the middle with no defender within five yards, so you throw it to him. McBeane want to make Allen Brady-effective. He's smart, he's committed, and seems like he's the kind of guy who work in a system like that. If he can, the Bills could have the GOAT, because if he can play in his head like Brady, he's bigger, stronger, faster and has a better arm than Brady. By all accounts it was Brady who instituted this offense, not Bellichek. Once Brady retires it will be all over for B.B. Without Brady, Bellichek would be another has been defensive coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 13 hours ago, Doc said: Brady's a great QB. But the fact remains that the Cheaters are 14-6 without him. I count it 14-8. In 2001 they went 11-3 with Brady and 0-2 without him. And most of that 14-8 (14 of the 22 games) was with Cassel against an extremely easy schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 On 4/7/2019 at 4:42 PM, maryland-bills-fan said: The Patriots have done well the last decade or so. I was wondering how the used the draft to get offensive linemen. First 5 rounds only.. Data from https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm year......round-overall pick......position 2018 1-23 OT 2017 3-85 OT 6-211 OT 2016 3-78 G 2015 4-111 G 4-131 C 2014 4-105 G 4-140 OT 2013 none 2012 none 2011 1-17 OT 2010 4-141 G 2008 none 2007 5-171 OT Top half of the first round or low 4th round seems to cover it. Three 1st round OLs since 2005 for the Pats. Three in 13 years. Us? One. Scarnecchia is great. Clearly. But three 1sts has to have helped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) Bringing up new england was to find out and show what a long-term successful team does. Regardless of Brady and Bellycheck, their o-line did not keep them from winning a lot of games. ANYWAY, with regards to the upcoming draft, I think that the Bills might draft ONE O-lineman in the first 3 rounds (top of the 1st) and thereafter will take 2 "high ceiling/low floor" guys, 4th round or later. The long range plan (IMHO) is to try to add one very good cheap OL player a year. New England, with the evil genus gnome running the show, seems to be using that strategy. Use the draft for top end talent and look hard at young, cheap veteran talent for place fillers or single dimension guys. For "Very high ceiling guys" with "high floors", you have to use your top pick. Other "high ceiling guys" that are available will only be found with low floors and in the later rounds. Take a few crapshoots there every year. "Medium ceiling/medium floor" guys are guys you don't draft- use the veterans, who have already been trained in the NFL and have a track record. They can fill in around the superior players and you have film and can figure out how. (That is what coaches are for). Edited April 8, 2019 by maryland-bills-fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 They seem to be able to run the ball always with a bunch of scrubs. OL must be doing something right.. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts