Connor Orr: How Will Rams-Chiefs Impact the Future of the NFL?

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

One game?  The league is in the midst of an all time offensive explosion.  Wake up and watch.

 

Ive heard that for 5 years.  And yet here we sit.  Top 5 offenses in NFL history have zero super bowl wins.  14 of last 20 SB wins went to defensive HCs.  #1 offense of all time got blown out in SB by defensive team 41-8.  

 

Sorry, this is just more fan mythology and history, stats, and facts prove that it’s not the only way to win, or even the most common.  

Edited November 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[jrober38]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The top offense 3 years ago or today is still the top offense.  The 2015 Panthers were the top offense and would currently be 4th.  They looked unstoppable that year....

The 2016 Falcons offense looked unstoppable....

2013 Broncos offense looked unstoppable....

 

And the rules have changed since.

 

Can't touch the receivers the way you could then, can't hit the QB without threat of a personal foul call, and you can't hit anyone coming over the middle looking to catch the football. 

 

The Legion of Boom couldn't exist with the current rules. DBs can no longer play that style of physicality on the back end, and linemen can't hit QBs the way they used to be able to. 

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Earlier you said if you aren't scoring 30 a game....you're in serious trouble.

 

The top teams in the NFL are all scoring more than 30 points a game.

 

New England is down around 28 and I can't count them out. 

 

Otherwise there's no one in the NFL who scores less than 28 points a game who has any real shot at winning the Super Bowl. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ive heard that for 5 years.  And yet here we sit.  Top 5 offenses in NFL history have zero super bowl wins.  14 of last 20 SB wins went to defensive HCs.  #1 offense of all time got blown out in SB by defensive team 41-8.  

 

Sorry, this is just more fan mythology and history, stats, and facts prove that it’s not the only way to win, or even the most common.  

 

You can continue to swim in denial all you'd like to 20 years ago to an era that has nothing to do with how offenses operate in today's game.  Wake up Rip. 

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Sorry that’s fan exaggeration.  Rules are not that much different.  You couldn’t do any of that stuff 3 years ago either, none of that’s new.  The only thing that was different this year was how often they called roughing the passer, but that’s subdued a little as the season has gone on and I suspect they will make some adjustments to that dumb rule this offseason as all the coaches hate the absurd penalties.   

 

The rules about hitting QBs and driving them to the ground are brand new. As is hitting a defenseless receiver. 

 

Those are both rules new for the 2018 season.

 

They also made the catch rule simpler, making it easier to "catch" the football than it was 5 years ago.

 

Sorry, but the rules are very different, and all the changes encourage passing the football. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

The rules about hitting QBs and driving them to the ground are brand new. As is hitting a defenseless receiver. 

 

Those are both rules new for the 2018 season.

 

They also made the catch rule simpler, making it easier to "catch" the football than it was 5 years ago.

 

Sorry, but the rules are very different, and all the changes encourage passing the football. 

 

100% the case.  

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You can continue to swim in denial all you'd like to 20 years ago to an era that has nothing to do with how offenses operate in today's game.  Wake up Rip. 

Nothing Insaid had anything to do with 20 years ago...all within the last 2 to 10 years.  You’re in denial and working off opinion rather than facts.  

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Nothing Insaid had anything to do with 20 years ago...all within the last 2 to 10 years.  You’re in denial and working off opinion rather than facts.  

 

Your words: "14 of last 20 SB wins went to defensive HCs"

Edited November 20, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[KellyToTasker]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

 

Not ENOUGH plays, apparently, as the score was a record one.

 

I agree, I don't think it's good for the defense to completely fall apart on 95% of the plays and make a spectacular play 5% of the time. That's not good defense. That's occasionally making a really good play.  

[LSHMEAB]

Kind of odd to see such a futuristic game played in a relic of an NFL venue.

 

When I was a kid, you needed a quarterback. Now that I'm a bit older, you still need a quarterback.

 

All this apoplectic talk about the collapse of the league is a bit overblown IMO. Andy Reid has been around the league for 30 years, 20 as a head coach. He found a freak QB. Of course rule changes have benefited the offense. That doesn't mean 54-51 games are the new norm. You will always need skill players executing at a high level. That's what you saw last night.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

And the rules have changed since.

 

Can't touch the receivers the way you could then, can't hit the QB without threat of a personal foul call, and you can't hit anyone coming over the middle looking to catch the football. 

 

The Legion of Boom couldn't exist with the current rules. DBs can no longer play that style of physicality on the back end, and linemen can't hit QBs the way they used to be able to. 

 

The top teams in the NFL are all scoring more than 30 points a game.

 

New England is down around 28 and I can't count them out. 

 

Otherwise there's no one in the NFL who scores less than 28 points a game who has any real shot at winning the Super Bowl. 

 

There's only 3 teams scoring 30 points per game so when you say "you're in serious trouble" if you don't score 30....that would include all teams below 30 including the Pats.  Those are your words and not mine.  So basically only 3 teams right now have a real shot at winning the Super Bowl I guess.

 

So what that the rules have changed.  That year, that offense was the best.  So it's even more impressive what the 2016 Falcons, 2011 Pats and 2013 Broncos did because they were scoring at a very high rate when they didn't have these new rules.  They were still scoring at a really high rate.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

The rules about hitting QBs and driving them to the ground are brand new. As is hitting a defenseless receiver. 

 

Those are both rules new for the 2018 season.

 

They also made the catch rule simpler, making it easier to "catch" the football than it was 5 years ago.

 

Sorry, but the rules are very different, and all the changes encourage passing the football. 

 

Skrry, the catch had no impact.  All that did was eliminate things that are real catches like Dez in playoffs and Calvin TDs from being incomplete.  Plays that happened like 3 times over a couple years.  

 

It literally has almost no impact other than being sure to get a couple plays correct a year.  And the QB hit thing is what I said was the only difference, but those resulted in unneccesarry penalties, not more explosive offenses.  

 

Again, way over exaggerated as if it’s somehow a completely different game now.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

Kind of odd to see such a futuristic game played in a relic of an NFL venue.

 

When I was a kid, you needed a quarterback. Now that I'm a bit older, you still need a quarterback.

 

All this apoplectic talk about the collapse of the league is a bit overblown IMO. Andy Reid has been around the league for 30 years, 20 as a head coach. He found a freak QB. Of course rule changes have benefited the offense. That doesn't mean 54-51 games are the new norm. You will always need skill players executing at a high level. That's what you saw last night.

 

Andy Reid is also borrowing heavily from CFB and even HS with formations and plays he has incorporated into his offense. 

[Jay_Fixit]

22 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yes they can.  Not all the top offensive powers won it all.

 

Not to take anything from Mahomes because he's playing incredibly right now but he does have All Pros at running back, TE and WR.

Has the best playmaker in football in Hill and best tight end with Kelce and one of the best RB's who is a dual threat....

Yep,

 

Mahomes and Goff are quite fortunate to have the weapons and schemes they have.

 

Still have to execute, but it’s easier when everyone is a threat.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Your words: "14 of last 20 SB wins went to defensive HCs"

 

All those record setting offenses that happened over recent years:  ZERO SB wins.  Top 2 all time COMBINED to score 22 points in SB while opponents with mediocre offenses combined to score 58.  

 

That’s the top two in history oursocred 58-22 in the SB despite their opponent having marginal offenses.  

 

 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Skrry, the catch had no impact.  All that did was eliminate things that are real catches like Dez in playoffs and Calvin TDs from being incomplete.  Plays that happened like 3 times over a couple years.  

 

It literally has almost no impact other than being sure to get a couple plays correct a year.  And the QB hit thing is what I said was the only difference, but those resulted in unneccesarry penalties, not more explosive offenses.  

 

Again, way over exaggerated as if it’s somehow a completely different game now.  

 

The catch rule happened all the time. At least one game a week would have what is now a TD called back. 

 

The QB hit keeps the offense on the field. It's an automatic first down that bails out 3rd and long situations where the defense historically would have got off the field.

 

All of these things reward passing.

 

More passes are now caught.

 

More penalties are called in the defensive backfield that result in automatic first downs.

 

More penalties are called against the QB that result in automatic first downs.

 

All of these rule changes keep offenses on the field longer, allowing them to score points because they have to punt less frequently.

 

The result is obvious. More scoring. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

All those record setting offenses that happened over recent years:  ZERO SB wins.  Top 2 all time COMBINED to score 22 points in SB while opponents with mediocre offenses combined to score 58.  

 

That’s the top two in history oursocred 58-22 in the SB despite their opponent having marginal offenses.  

 

So getting back to the here and now, what great defensive team is going to win SB LIII?   

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The catch rule happened all the time. At least one game a week would have what is now a TD called back. 

 

The QB hit keeps the offense on the field. It's an automatic first down that bails out 3rd and long situations where the defense historically would have got off the field.

 

All of these things reward passing.

 

More passes are now caught.

 

More penalties are called in the defensive backfield that result in automatic first downs.

 

More penalties are called against the QB that result in automatic first downs.

 

All of these rule changes keep offenses on the field longer, allowing them to score points because they have to punt less frequently.

 

The result is obvious. More scoring. 

 

Sorry man, more fan exaggeration.  It didn’t happen remotely close to one a week.  Facts matter, I get it felt that way as it was frustrating, but the impact of that rule is minimal.  Necessary rule for sure, but affects the offensive scoring out in a minimal way.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Andy Reid is also borrowing heavily from CFB and even HS with formations and plays he has incorporated into his offense. 

I lived in Philly when Reid first started out as a HC.

 

They would routinely blast him on the radio for this very thing. He's always been one to tinker. I would guess he's doing it even more now with the rule changes and his current QB, but it's not entirely new.

 

I think Wade is done as a DC. The league is changing and it's changing fast. You either adapt or you die(career wise). Reid has clearly adapted.

 

I don't think quality defense is antiquated. I think the way we view quality defense is antiquated. Defensive coaches have to be more creative.

Edited November 20, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

I lived in Philly when Reid first started out as a HC.

 

They would routinely blast him on the radio for this very thing. He's always been one to tinker. I would guess he's doing it even more now with the rule changes and his current corner, but it's not entirely new.

 

I think Wade is done as a DC. The league is changing and it's changing fast. You either adapt or you die(career wise). Reid has clearly adapted.

 

I don't think quality defense is antiquated. I think the way we view quality defense is antiquated. Defensive coaches have to be more creative.

 

McVay, Payton, Shanahan, and others are doing the same.   As I posted earlier, defenses will eventually adjust before something else takes hold. 

[jrober38]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Sorry man, more fan exaggeration.  It didn’t happen remotely close to one a week.  Facts matter, I get it felt that way as it was frustrating, but the impact of that rule is minimal.  Necessary rule for sure, but affects the offensive out out in a minimal way.

 

Then why are NFL offenses scoring more points than ever before? 

 

As you said, the facts matter.