BuffaloRush Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Except you are wrong on that. The wins in Chicago and Miami that same 2014 season jump immediately to mind without even trying to think. Chicago and Miami weren’t really world beaters. Not exactly “big games.” I’m talking about making a difference against top opponents. Mario was a no -factor in many of those games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, billspro said: Clay, Zo, Hyde, and Poyer all have a chance to be on that list Hyde and Poyer belong on the list now. And what about Brian Moorman?? Edited July 22, 2018 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 56 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said: Chicago and Miami weren’t really world beaters. Not exactly “big games.” I’m talking about making a difference against top opponents. Mario was a no -factor in many of those games So he didn't have to just provide stats, or just provide match winning moments... he had to provide match winning moments in the matches you determine as important? Got it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: So he didn't have to just provide stats, or just provide match winning moments... he had to provide match winning moments in the matches you determine as important? Got it. Go back and watch the Bills vs Houston and Bills vs. Denver and then Bills vs Raiders from 2014. Quite possibly the most important games of 2014. Mario was severely outplayed by each teams’ top pass rushers in JJ Watt, Von Miller and Khalil Mack respectively. Coincidence? Probably not, this was typical Mario and the crux of the argument. I never said that Mario was a bust or that he wasn’t good. In Buffalo he was an excellent DE for 2 of the 4 seasons he was on the team. But I don’t however feel his performance was worthy of the huge contract he received. You don’t fork that much money over for a game changer...an elite player. Mario was very good but he not elite. His contract was elite though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said: Go back and watch the Bills vs Houston and Bills vs. Denver and then Bills vs Raiders from 2014. Quite possibly the most important games of 2014. Mario was severely outplayed by each teams’ top pass rushers in JJ Watt, Von Miller and Khalil Mack respectively. Coincidence? Probably not, this was typical Mario and the crux of the argument. I never said that Mario was a bust or that he wasn’t good. In Buffalo he was an excellent DE for 2 of the 4 seasons he was on the team. But I don’t however feel his performance was worthy of the huge contract he received. You don’t fork that much money over for a game changer...an elite player. Mario was very good but he not elite. His contract was elite though. And I think you are wrong. Mario's job isn't to block JJ Watt or Von Miller so I have no idea what that has to do with it. Mario had elite production based on numbers over his first three years on this team. You say it is not numbers it is play against big teams and then list the Raiders who won what? 2 games that year? They beat the Bills because we amassed 9 yards rushing in the game.... not because of Mario Williams. Both the Bears and the Dolphins who you declared not to count won more games that that Raiders team. So if you get to make up entirely arbitraty criteria to judge Mario against then sure you can support your argument. But based on the actual evidence that is on film and in the game logs you can't. If you want to argue "we signed him on a 5 year contract for elite money and he was only elite for 3 of them and that should play into his ranking" then I think that is a fair argument. Pretending he wasn't a dominant player those 3 years is not. His remit in coming here was to give the Bills a feared pass rush. 2013 and 14 is, I believe, the best two year stretch in team history so far as sacks go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRush Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: And I think you are wrong. Mario's job isn't to block JJ Watt or Von Miller so I have no idea what that has to do with it. Mario had elite production based on numbers over his first three years on this team. You say it is not numbers it is play against big teams and then list the Raiders who won what? 2 games that year? They beat the Bills because we amassed 9 yards rushing in the game.... not because of Mario Williams. Both the Bears and the Dolphins who you declared not to count won more games that that Raiders team. So if you get to make up entirely arbitraty criteria to judge Mario against then sure you can support your argument. But based on the actual evidence that is on film and in the game logs you can't. If you want to argue "we signed him on a 5 year contract for elite money and he was only elite for 3 of them and that should play into his ranking" then I think that is a fair argument. Pretending he wasn't a dominant player those 3 years is not. His remit in coming here was to give the Bills a feared pass rush. 2013 and 14 is, I believe, the best two year stretch in team history so far as sacks go. The Raiders in 2014 were not a top team, but there is little doubt that the game in LA was a “must win” to keep their playoff hopes alive. In fact, if they win that game they had a pretty good chance to get in. Point is, in big games Mario was a non-factor. This has been proven many times. He did have a huge sack against GB but if Jordy Nelson doesn’t drop a sure fire TD it would be all for naught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: Point is, in big games Mario was a non-factor. This has been proven many times. No it hasn't. We are not going to agree. I think you are as wrong as it is possible to be, but I am not going to change your opinion that's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I would nominate Bill Brooks for this list. He played a key role on the last Super Bowl team in 1993 (his stats were pretty close to Andres that year...about 5 more receptions, about a 100 less yards), but in many ways, he saved the 1995 season for the Bills. As you may recall, he had been cut in the off season..and then re-signed late in the summer, for pennies. Andre Reed missed about 10 games that year, and Brooks really came through late in the season to help the Bills secure a playoff spot. He made some really improbable cathces...not as flashy, but I'd put him on the list over TO, based on what he did as a Bill. The Bills got a great value in him, and he produced. On 7/18/2018 at 9:32 PM, Dadonkadonk said: Steve Tasker was claimed off waivers. Basically the same thing as a FA signing. Micah Hyde may be on this list in two more years. Flutie was never as good as anyone on this list but if you want him at 10 and bump Owens that is fine with me I'm not a huge Flutie fan, but I think you could make a pretty strong argument that he belongs at the top of this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 On 7/20/2018 at 11:28 PM, GunnerBill said: We have done this before and I have listed countless other big plays in big games. You are flat out wrong. He played 3 dominant years here. He did well vs some 2nd rate OTs and offenses. He too often was held in check. Miami’s Webb owned him. I recall too many times where an OT pushed him beyond the pocket so he was way out of the play. He didn’t have a counter move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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