MJS Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Since when is Landry an elite WR? Don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: This isn't directed at you at all, but I get the sense that many people here are clueless about how much the cap has gone up. At 177.2 million, it's approaching MLB levels. If people are familiar with MLB salaries, they'll begin to understand that salaries like $15 million are garden variety for players that teams assume will be above-average starters. The Browns are a team with a TON of players on rookie contracts (and that'll go up after this draft too), so they have to spend their money somehow. They aren't devoting much to the QB position either, relatively speaking. Ridiculous comparison though, there are far more players in football counting against the cap. Landry is being payed as an elite receiver and he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Turk71 said: Ridiculous comparison though, there are far more players in football counting against the cap. Landry is being payed as an elite receiver and he isn't. It's not a ridiculous comparison at all. $15 million is what *average* decent starters (e.g., Brandon Belt and Brandon Crawford for the Giants) get paid in MLB when they are no longer under team control. Landry is n no longer under team control and better than average (he's not a deep threat, but he's one of the better slot guys in the league). By way of comparison, Landry, for all of his limitations, is a *significantly* better receiver than anyone on the Bills at present (and yes, I'm including Benjamin, who is glacially slow for a #1). Anyway, the MLB luxury is $210 million now, and the minimum salary is higher than in the NFL. In the NFL, guys on rookie contracts count for peanuts, and the Browns' team is filled with them. Last year, the Browns were something like $100 million under the cap. The bottom line: $15 million ain't what it used to be with regard to NFL contracts. The cap has gone up by a LOT in recent years. Edited April 13, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: It's not a ridiculous comparison at all. $15 million is what *average* decent starters (e.g., Brandon Belt and Brandon Crawford for the Giants) get paid in MLB when they are no longer under team control. Landry is n no longer under team control and better than average (he's not a deep threat, but he's one of the better slot guys in the league). By way of comparison, Landry, for all of his limitations, is a *significantly* better receiver than anyone on the Bills at present (and yes, I'm including Benjamin, who is glacially slow for a #1). Anyway, the MLB luxury is $210 million now, and the minimum salary is higher than in the NFL. In the NFL, guys on rookie contracts count for peanuts, and the Browns' team is filled with them. Last year, the Browns were something like $100 million under the cap. The bottom line: $15 million ain't what it used to be with regard to NFL contracts. The cap has gone up by a LOT in recent years. Average decent starters get paid more in MLB. There are less players eating a bigger pie, it's not a good comparison. Landry is one of the top payed wrs in the NFL, he isn't that good is the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Turk71 said: Average decent starters get paid more in MLB. There are less players eating a bigger pie, it's not a good comparison. Landry is one of the top payed wrs in the NFL, he isn't that good is the point. ? - I don't understand your point. Look around at MLB team salary pages and factor in a) the Browns' cap situation and b) Landry' productivity. He is decidedly better than average albeit not elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: ? - I don't understand your point. Look around at MLB team salary pages and factor in a) the Browns' cap situation and b) Landry' productivity. He is decidedly better than average albeit not elite. More mouths to feed with less cap is the NFL to MLB comparison, if u don't understand, I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, thebandit27 said: He gets a lot of targets because he plays in the slot, where he has more room to operate. Consider NFL.com's NextGenStats: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation There are WRs that get more average yards of separation per route run than Landry that also play the slot: Albert Wilson, Randall Cobb, Ted Ginn, Tyreek Hill, Travis Benjamin, Adam Humphries, Robby Anderson, and Jamison Crowder. Half of those guys have better reception % than Landry, and yet each of them garnered far fewer targets, so it's not exactly like he's the only guy with the ability to create separation and catch a high percentage of passes. Of course, if you look at who's throwing him the ball, Tannehill in 2016 and Cutler in 2016 had an average intended air yardage of 8.5 on their passes, which is pretty low in comparison to other players. Since Landry is different from the others listed above (save for Humphries) in that he really only operates in the short zones, that's probably got a lot to do with why he gets so many targets. I feel we got into a similar conversation last year on the same topic about Sammy? These advanced stats are a little silly some times. Bottom line, there are guys who produce at a high level. Landry is one of them. There are others where you can cherry pick certain numbers to fit the narrative, but they never really put it all together.This is a league where it's all about moving the football forward. He's a superb option. His talent in the short routes almost serves as an extension of the running game. If they all those have better reception rates, yards per separation, blah blah blah, why don't they perform better than him? As mentioned by a few other guys, the market has spoken. $15 million is the going rate for an upper tier receiver. 400 catches in 4 years says that Landry is exactly that. Edited April 13, 2018 by TheElectricCompany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir andrew Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Browns gonna Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: I feel we got into a similar conversation last year on the same topic about Sammy? These advanced stats are a little silly some times. Bottom line, there are guys who produce at a high level. Landry is one of them. There are others where you can cherry pick certain numbers to fit the narrative, but they never really put it all together.This is a league where it's all about moving the football forward. He's a superb option. His talent in the short routes almost serves as an extension of the running game. If they all those have better reception rates, yards per separation, blah blah blah, why don't they perform better than him? As mentioned by a few other guys, the market has spoken. $15 million is the going rate for an upper tier receiver. 400 catches in 4 years says that Landry is exactly that. This is scouting by stats at its worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Turk71 said: More mouths to feed with less cap is the NFL to MLB comparison, if u don't understand, I understand. Trust me, I fully understand. What you don't seem to realize is that the bottom 25-30 players on an NFL rosters are chum; they are paid peanuts, relatively speaking, and collectively they add up to a miniscule amount. Are there low earners in MLB? Yes, but they represent a far smaller portion of the roster than in the NFL. Seriously, look at salary pages for NFL and MLB teams. The issue is that some players HAVE to be paid credible major professional sports salaries given the revenues involved and the collective bargaining agreements, even in the 53-players-per-team NFL. The disparity between the top and bottom tiers in the NFL is huge, but since there is a salary cap floor, for all teams some number of players have to paid . Indeed, the Browns basically took on Brock Osweiler last year to add ballast to their overall salary structure, which was ridiculously low. By way of example: http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/san-francisco-giants/payroll/ vs. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/cap/ Seriously, take a look. Edited April 13, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: I feel we got into a similar conversation last year on the same topic about Sammy? These advanced stats are a little silly some times. Bottom line, there are guys who produce at a high level. Landry is one of them. There are others where you can cherry pick certain numbers to fit the narrative, but they never really put it all together. This is a league where it's all about moving the football forward. He's a superb option. His talent in the short routes almost serves as an extension of the running game. If they all those have better reception rates, yards per separation, blah blah blah, why don't they perform better than him? As mentioned by a few other guys, the market has spoken. $15 million is the going rate for an upper tier receiver. 400 catches in 4 years says that Landry is exactly that. It may be, but time will tell if he is and if it's worth that. This is the frickin Browns we are talking about, they are not setting the market. They are just making bad decisions as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: I feel we got into a similar conversation last year on the same topic about Sammy? These advanced stats are a little silly some times. Bottom line, there are guys who produce at a high level. Landry is one of them. There are others where you can cherry pick certain numbers to fit the narrative, but they never really put it all together.This is a league where it's all about moving the football forward. He's a superb option. His talent in the short routes almost serves as an extension of the running game. If they all those have better reception rates, yards per separation, blah blah blah, why don't they perform better than him? As mentioned by a few other guys, the market has spoken. $15 million is the going rate for an upper tier receiver. 400 catches in 4 years says that Landry is exactly that. Good post. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: This is scouting by stats at its worst. Check back in when he grabs another ~95 balls for 1100 yards or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, TheElectricCompany said: Check back in when he grabs another ~95 balls for 1100 yards or so. Confirms what I just posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Confirms what I just posted. He's a lot better than you seem to think, CB. He is a GREAT safety valve, seems to always catch the tough balls in heavy traffic (attested to by his career 70 percent catch rate and what I see on the screen), and plays with a violent streak that shows up in the run game too (as the Bills can attest). He has a bit of Hines Ward in him. I think he's a jerk, but whatever - that's neither here nor there. Edited April 13, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Confirms what I just posted. Cool. Gloss over total production as much as you'd like. You don't find guys like him on the street walking around. I'll say it again, productive, young and durable players are always expensive, especially when their best football is ahead of them. Edited April 13, 2018 by TheElectricCompany 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Cool. Gloss over total production as much as you'd like. You don't find guys like him on the street walking around. I'll say it again, productive, young and durable players are always expensive, especially when their best football is ahead of them. He's being paid like an explosive game breaking #1 WR. He simply isn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: He's being paid like an explosive game breaking #1 WR. He simply isn't. As I say above, $15 million ain't what it used to be. And he is unquestionably better than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I just don’t believe in paying a slot WR #1 WR money. But, with Cleveland’s cap, if they can front load the deal, it may work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: As I say above, $15 million ain't what it used to be. And he is unquestionably better than average. Rising cap aside, he's not worth $15.1M per season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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