To Me This Feels Like the Hangover After the Party

[Hapless Bills Fan]

37 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Well, the majority vote in the poll people are telling me to shush up and I will after this thread dies :> At least until after the draft.

 

But right now...

 

and brace yourselves in a moment I will mention he who's name must not be spoken.

 

McD did a lot with a little I think. He got a decent performance out of a roster that was churned a lot. And he and Beane did a lot of things just as I would have. From the draft to just getting rid of the guys who didn't get it. The guys who thought they were doing us a favor just by being here. Get them the eff out of here. They did that. So there was a lot to like there.

 

He brought in Poyer and Gaines. But Gaines is probably gone unless they want pay him. But still they did well bringing in defensive talent.

 

Offensive talent? Not so much and look at the contrast between Tre White, a fantastic pick, and Zay Jones, so far not so good. More on that gap between defensive expertise and offensive expertise later.

 

Now, Rex Ryan went 8-8 and then 7-8. He would have been 8-8 also the second year  if they hadn't benched Tyrod that last game and put EJ in to do what he does so well and lose the game. So it would have been two 8-8 seasons. McDermot won One More Game. He went 9-7. 

 

And now we have sunshine, unicorns and rainbows. They won one more game than the hated Rex Ryan with his dysfunctional "clown show".

Also we still got our traditional twice yearly keestering by the Pats. Just like always. Except this time they tried to kill one of players.

 

We did make the playoffs on a heroic play, by Andy Dalton of the Cincinnati Bengals. 

 

Then we lost the playoff game because we scored 3 points.

 

I enjoyed the end of the year as much as anyone, but gee, where is the ongoing euphoria coming from?

 

Some guys here have made a decent case that we might be able to cobble together a starting o-line that might possible be serviceable. I hope so but then where is our depth? We have to use our backups and hope they can be starters. These guys always get hurt, who will be the backups?

 

And sure we can hope that whatever QB they get that some other team is getting rid of, will be better than our Qb who we want to get rid of. I hope so but it coud be just another guy we get to be our Qb, who somebody else got rid of. Just like always.

 

Next I come to, this regime has shown pretty close to ZERO ability to run an offense or find offensive talent.

 

I suppose it could have been worse, maybe. But if you take away Shady we didn't have an offense, we had Tolbert. And Shady was already here. We can give them credit for not trading Shady away I suppose.

 

But seriously, based on this year it looks like Sean McDermott has no idea about running an offense or sizing up offensive players or coaches for that matter.

He looks liek what he was when we hired him which was a great defensive coordinator.

 

Sure he fired the OC, but he also hired him. And any way you slice it, how the offense turned out is the head coaches responsibility. That is what makes him the head coach. And he TANKED on that part of it.  

 

So this is the brain trust that will pick our QB? Who will draft an bring in free agents to shore up our offense? McD and Beane. That have done terrible at that end of things so far. So there is reason to be queasy and uneasy when one sets aside the euphoria and enters hang-overland

 

My dear Meanie.  Elsewhere, you happened to mention enduring the last 17 years drink-free.  So how severe can your hangover be, truly?  But here, have a bowl of vuelve a la vida, sit down, and chat a bit.

 

I don't know what to make of Zay Jones.  One thinks perchance McGeoghan, his college WR coach and now ours, may have influenced the choice.  But it's hard to criticize choosing a record-setting WR whose scouting reports all praised his great hands.  Recall that in the second round, about 2/3 of draftees don't make it in the NFL, and of those who do, a good number take more than one year.  Zay may be one of those, but I can't condemn our new crew for one draft pick who looks shaky on one year.  

 

And recall that McDermott did handle last year's draft with Whaley and his staff.  Afterwards, Beane made a clean sweep of the scouts and restocked with his own picks.  This upcoming draft is the one they shall be judged upon.  Are Benjamin and Matthews good acquisitions or not?  They were injured.  Time will tell.

 

I agree, McDermott stops the buck for the hire of Dennison, and for the puzzling decision to keep Tyrod in an offense not Taylored for him and to start Not Ready Nate.  The hopeful difference I perceive is that unlike Gailey (who clung to George Edwards), McDermott appears willing to learn from his mistakes and make tough decisions to move on.  If Daboll proves just as inept, I will join you in Hangover Hell.  I will feel less hopeful if the rest of the offensive assistant coaches are all retained.  I think they need to get a different OL coach in there, and at least a WR and QB coach familiar with working in an EP system.  I did not feel our wideouts were well coached last year.

 

The difference between the wRrex record and this, is that Rex took over a #4 D and trashed it.  McDermott took over the wreckage, took it apart, added and subtracted, and got the whole to overperform the level of the component parts and drive to a better record.

 

We shall see.  But not time to be yet too despondent.

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[BadLandsMeanie]

I don't think I am overly despondent? I got regrets though! I do wish we had a better draft position than we wound up with.

 

Anyway I think that McBean has a VERY big challenge ahead of them this offseason. It might turn out to be exciting how they manage the draft and free agency. That is what I am hoping for. But I for one have no idea how they will manage to get us a legit QB prospect and a line that he won't get killed behind. If they can do that I will be way more positive

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I don't think I am overly despondent? I got regrets though! I do wish we had a better draft position than we wound up with.

 

Anyway I think that McBean has a VERY big challenge ahead of them this offseason. It might turn out to be exciting how they manage the draft and free agency. That is what I am hoping for. But I for one have no idea how they will manage to get us a legit QB prospect and a line that he won't get killed behind. If they can do that I will be way more positive

 

I'm bi-polar.  Part of me is all warm and thrilled that we made the playoffs.    Part of me thinks we should have put up a Grade A Tank, despite the facts that mediocre to poor teams that tank, frequently don't "turn it around" as expected once Wonderboy lands in their arms, even if Wonderboy QB can play.

 

I cling to the hope that Daboll would not have jumped on board so quickly without knowing they had good QB acquisition plans.

[Success]

4th and 12 was a top 5 moment for me as a sports fan.  I wouldn’t trade that just for a better pick.  This team is in good hands and will only get better regardless

[Fadingpain]

I feel like the foundation is in pace, or getting in place, to allow us to be competitive year in and year out.

 

So don't be negative for now.

 

If we F this draft up and emerge with no QB, I'll want to burn the place to the ground.

 

But that hasn't happened yet, so let's enjoy it.

 

And look on the bright side: Brady is playing later today.  You never know; this might be the day he gets both of knees blown out on a "freak play."
 

There is always something to think positively about!

 

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm bi-polar.  Part of me is all warm and thrilled that we made the playoffs.    Part of me thinks we should have put up a Grade A Tank, despite the facts that mediocre to poor teams that tank, frequently don't "turn it around" as expected once Wonderboy lands in their arms, even if Wonderboy QB can play.

 

I cling to the hope that Daboll would not have jumped on board so quickly without knowing they had good QB acquisition plans.

Well, I have undergone a transformation lately (and not just because of your kind sharing of vuelve a la vida). But  more long term one in my thinking.

 

About the tank. Mainly, I wish they had just moved on from Tyrod if they didn't think he was their guy down the road. What did we gain by keeping him, besides some wins that make it harder to find his replacement? I think they could have used whatever money they saved to shore up the line a little bit, so that whoever they did get to start for a year didn't have to be combination of Houdini and Gumby to stay alive back there.

 

I actually am starting to believe they have to keep him for next year also.  Again if they are hopefully smarter than me they will find a way out of that, but they do have to have somebody with some experience for next year. 

 

I do actually think that McDermott, like many of the fans, and the coaches before him, looked at Tyrod and could see how close he was, and thought they could fix him. We all fell for that at one point or another. I think he did too. So maybe he didn't know he wanted to move on.

 

(I am really, really, really glad that they moved in from Doug Whaley. But I have to admit he was correct about Tyrod Taylor)

 

Lesser stuff is what did a guy like Gains do for us? Yeah he did good. Maybe added a win to our total. But now he is gone probably.

 

Post fun time at the party, I think it would have been better to get some long shots or undrafted and just see what they can do and hope you find somebody for last year.

 

But like I say maybe they got a plan and it will work out ok.

 

As for Dabol, here is a part where I don't think the same any more and it is just recent.

 

Take a look sometime at all the head coaches from all the teams, of the last 10 or 15 years. When I was doing that I was thinking, oh yeah, I remember him.  I remember a lot of them. Almost all of them are gone. Nearly nobody lasts as a head coach.

 

So if they are thinking men they know the odds and they know they have a very small chance of sticking. Of course in their hearts they want to do well. 

 

But my new take is it is in their wallets where they feel the call to be a head coach the deepest. I have no idea, but you can figure McD, just as an example, for a 4 year contract at 4 million a year. So that is 16 million dollars hypothetically.

 

Nobody ever says that, ever. But pretty much you land a contract like that your family is taken care of no matter what happens to you. That has to be a big reason everyone wants those jobs.

 

So same for Dabol relatively speaking. Maybe he took this job because he agrees we have an air tight plan to get him a QB and to keep him standing.

 

But maybe he took it because he is making 5 times more than he was last month, and is guaranteed maybe 3 million dollars. And for 3 mil he will take his chances on whatever QB they come up with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

I feel like the foundation is in pace, or getting in place, to allow us to be competitive year in and year out.

 

So don't be negative for now.

 

If we F this draft up and emerge with no QB, I'll want to burn the place to the ground.

 

But that hasn't happened yet, so let's enjoy it.

 

And look on the bright side: Brady is playing later today.  You never know; this might be the day he gets both of knees blown out on a "freak play."
 

There is always something to think positively about!

 

 

I will change my tune a lot if they get us a QB somehow. But right now I can't figure out how we get the ammo to do it.

As for Brady, that is over. We can't beat him. He pwned us for over a decade. He beat us about as bad as was possible. Him getting old or injured will not change that and it will be no victory. He won. I am just going to accept that and move on.

 

Now if he is still doing when he is 50....

[Beast]

Good piece, Baddy. athe Bills will be fine. I would never claim to be Dunkirk Don Or the Savior but I have only posted a couple times on BB.com about my source. I am not about to make a silly thread here, either but the Bills will not be missing on a QB this spring and the plan is to have both a legit vet starter and a rookie franchise guy in the fold. 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Well, I have undergone a transformation lately (and not just because of your kind sharing of vuelve a la vida). But  more long term one in my thinking.

(...)

About the tank. Mainly, I wish they had just moved on from Tyrod if they didn't think he was their guy down the road. What did we gain by keeping him, besides some wins that make it harder to find his replacement? 

 

I might be alone in this line of thinking.  But I think winning does have intrinsic value.  Like the quote says "success gets to be a habit, like anything else a fellow keeps doing".

The track record of "meh" teams that try to bottom out, then regroup with their prize #1 pick, is not as good as one might believe. 

 

10 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

As for Dabol, here is a part where I don't think the same any more and it is just recent.

 

Take a look sometime at all the head coaches from all the teams, of the last 10 or 15 years. When I was doing that I was thinking, oh yeah, I remember him.  I remember a lot of them. Almost all of them are gone. Nearly nobody lasts as a head coach.

 

So if they are thinking men they know the odds and they know they have a very small chance of sticking. Of course in their hearts they want to do well. 

 

But my new take is it is in their wallets where they feel the call to be a head coach the deepest. I have no idea, but you can figure McD, just as an example, for a 4 year contract at 4 million a year. So that is 16 million dollars hypothetically.

 

Nobody ever says that, ever. But pretty much you land a contract like that your family is taken care of no matter what happens to you. That has to be a big reason everyone wants those jobs.

 

So same for Dabol relatively speaking. Maybe he took this job because he agrees we have an air tight plan to get him a QB and to keep him standing.

 

But maybe he took it because he is making 5 times more than he was last month, and is guaranteed maybe 3 million dollars. And for 3 mil he will take his chances on whatever QB they come up with.

 

Is he in fact actually making 4 times more than he was last month?  I haven't seen any details on what his deal with the Bills was. 

Daboll has been reported as the #7 paid college assistant coach, #2 paid OC, at a salary of $1.2M per year, plus a bonus of $216k for winning the national championship.

He was pretty well-paid, and had 2 more years on his Alabama contract at that payscale.

 

I can't say of course what motivated Daboll to leave the college scene.  It might have been money.  He might have had conflicts with Saban or hated recruiting.

I do feel fairly certain that the Bills were not going to be his only offer, especially if he stuck with Bama and won a second championship.

 

I do think this: once you are making more than $1M per year in a demanding job, any money on top of that may matter less than you think.  Your kids are going to the best public school, or maybe the best private school.  You can take whatever vacation you like.  Your kids have 529 plans or equivalent.  You can make more money, but you don't have time to spend it.  You've become acquainted with Rich People Problems like having to choose your friends and hold a line with your relatives.

 

I think it's about Ego.  They know the odds, and they think "but I'm different.  I'm the guy that will make this work.  Stats are for losers.  Winner, here."  I think what you say may have merit if you're looking at a guy like Chan Gailey who wasn't going to get much if anything in the way of more shots when the Bills called, not a Young Gun like McDermott or Daboll.  These guys are obsessed, a bit Loco.  You have to be, to put in the time it takes.  And even the nicest of them have Big Honkin' Egos.

 

I am influenced in this by having indirect knowledge (friend of a close friend) of a former NFL head coach and acquaintance (my kid would say friendship, I don't claim that) with a former NFL great.  I will not name names, which probably makes me some kind of weasel, but I just give this as background for how my opinion was formed.

 

 

 

[3rdand12]

On 2/2/2018 at 9:34 AM, BadLandsMeanie said:

It was so great to end that playoff drought. Just seeing that word, drought, and knowing I won't have to look at it any more, is still a nice feeling.

 

But now is the morning and and the house is a mess and there is a stranger asleep in my bathtub and I feel like death and the girl I met and got lucky with left a message that sounds like I had asked her to move in.

 

 

Look at the freaking picks we have, all these quarterbacks and we legit might not even get one. Did we really have to, have to, "end the drought"? It sure was fun but damn now we gotta pay.

 

On the offensive side of the ball, homer enthusiasm aside, we had incognito and Wood and Shady. Now we have incognito and Shady and they are both pretty old. Besides that we need pretty much everything. And we get a new OC and a new offense and new whoever else they decide to hire when he picks his staff.

 

On defense we are in a little better shape but we still have needs and also we got coaches fired or retiring for obscure reasons. The D-Line coach didn't come here just to retire. 

 

Anyway, should I shut up?  And just let's enjoy the afterglow? Or should I keep looking and see who is in the bathtub? I am kind of worried he might be dead in there now I think about it. I don't hear any snoring.

was one hell of a party though ! Thanks.

I am fine , already left.

 signed

 The fat man in the BathTub

[Robert James]

On 2/3/2018 at 6:20 AM, SoCal Deek said:

Fun story...but I’m not getting the analogy. The Bills didn’t sell their soul or compromise their principles or judgement to make the playoffs this season. In fact they did pretty much the exact opposite. There’s a case to be made that they could return to the post season by doing a whole lot LESS this off season than many on here are suggesting. (They won’t win the super bowl but people please, the playoffs aren’t THAT hard to make!)

 

Besides, what’s the alternative to going forward? Dropping the microphone and walking off stage?  In the words of Aaron Rogers....relax.

 

I agree completely.  The process was more like starting to rehab a neglected property and paying down debt.  The playoffs was a house warming afterwards -- celebrating some significant success and a new direction, but knowing there is plenty more to do. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

45 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Good piece, Baddy. athe Bills will be fine. I would never claim to be Dunkirk Don Or the Savior but I have only posted a couple times on BB.com about my source. I am not about to make a silly thread here, either but the Bills will not be missing on a QB this spring and the plan is to have both a legit vet starter and a rookie franchise guy in the fold. 

 

 

Hey thanks Beast. You have never been a tin foil hat guy so I appreciate your information a lot. If they can pull that off it will be a great thing.

[Beast]

11 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Hey thanks Beast. You have never been a tin foil hat guy so I appreciate your information a lot. If they can pull that off it will be a great thing.

 

No problem.

 

Just understand the vet may be Tyrod.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

On 2/2/2018 at 9:34 AM, BadLandsMeanie said:

It was so great to end that playoff drought. Just seeing that word, drought, and knowing I won't have to look at it any more, is still a nice feeling.

 

But now is the morning and and the house is a mess and there is a stranger asleep in my bathtub and I feel like death and the girl I met and got lucky with left a message that sounds like I had asked her to move in.

 

 

Look at the freaking picks we have, all these quarterbacks and we legit might not even get one. Did we really have to, have to, "end the drought"? It sure was fun but damn now we gotta pay.

 

On the offensive side of the ball, homer enthusiasm aside, we had incognito and Wood and Shady. Now we have incognito and Shady and they are both pretty old. Besides that we need pretty much everything. And we get a new OC and a new offense and new whoever else they decide to hire when he picks his staff.

 

On defense we are in a little better shape but we still have needs and also we got coaches fired or retiring for obscure reasons. The D-Line coach didn't come here just to retire. 

 

Anyway, should I shut up?  And just let's enjoy the afterglow? Or should I keep looking and see who is in the bathtub? I am kind of worried he might be dead in there now I think about it. I don't hear any snoring.

 

I see you added Eric Wood, maybe I'm undervaluing him or maybe fans are over valuing him but I saw him as an average piece here, when Groy filled in for him after he broke his leg what seemed like an every other year thing, I didn't even realize Wood was gone to be honest. I feel really bad for the guy, he's done so much with his foundation, the community and was a great leader in our locker room but aside from those things, I've always viewed him as upgradeable, I see so many fans feel the same as you and I just wonder why. I feel the same as you, there are a bunch of positions that need to be tweaked or overhauled here but a QB in place would make things so much less of a worry, you fill in those peices why your QB progresses, getting Kelvin Benjamin was a great start, I don't care what other fans on here think, he's a legit #1 WR , Cam Newton had no trouble with him as the #1, seemed like they were both on the same page but it seems like Beane will put a band aid over a bunch of positions and hope for the best, I'm curious to see what we do at LB since our LB core is horrendous imo.

[gobills1212]

I wish there was a 3rd choice of 'normal off season progression' for a team coming off the playoffs. Everything will work itself out regardless of how anyone here feels.. so just sit back, let it happen, and look forward to next season, no?

[BadLandsMeanie]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I might be alone in this line of thinking.  But I think winning does have intrinsic value.  Like the quote says "success gets to be a habit, like anything else a fellow keeps doing".

The track record of "meh" teams that try to bottom out, then regroup with their prize #1 pick, is not as good as one might believe. 

 

 

Is he in fact actually making 4 times more than he was last month?  I haven't seen any details on what his deal with the Bills was. 

Daboll has been reported as the #7 paid college assistant coach, #2 paid OC, at a salary of $1.2M per year, plus a bonus of $216k for winning the national championship.

He was pretty well-paid, and had 2 more years on his Alabama contract at that payscale.

 

I can't say of course what motivated Daboll to leave the college scene.  It might have been money.  He might have had conflicts with Saban or hated recruiting.

I do feel fairly certain that the Bills were not going to be his only offer, especially if he stuck with Bama and won a second championship.

 

I do think this: once you are making more than $1M per year in a demanding job, any money on top of that may matter less than you think.  Your kids are going to the best public school, or maybe the best private school.  You can take whatever vacation you like.  Your kids have 529 plans or equivalent.  You can make more money, but you don't have time to spend it.  You've become acquainted with Rich People Problems like having to choose your friends and hold a line with your relatives.

 

I think it's about Ego.  They know the odds, and they think "but I'm different.  I'm the guy that will make this work.  Stats are for losers.  Winner, here."  I think what you say may have merit if you're looking at a guy like Chan Gailey who wasn't going to get much if anything in the way of more shots when the Bills called, not a Young Gun like McDermott or Daboll.  These guys are obsessed, a bit Loco.  You have to be, to put in the time it takes.  And even the nicest of them have Big Honkin' Egos.

 

I am influenced in this by having indirect knowledge (friend of a close friend) of a former NFL head coach and acquaintance (my kid would say friendship, I don't claim that) with a former NFL great.  I will not name names, which probably makes me some kind of weasel, but I just give this as background for how my opinion was formed.

 

 

 

I do think  winning has some intrinsic value. But that is more of a superstition, kind of, that I thin I have. Or put another way, I think picking high in the draft has more intrinsic value.

Here is the thing. And not beat it to death, but I have to shut up for like 2 months after this.

 

How is this different from every other year? Every other mediocre year when we are not good enough to legitimately contend, but we are not bad enough to pick the cream of the crop in the draft?

 

This seems like exactly the same thing, again. And the intrinsic value of winning in all those other years, didn't do a thing for us. And I am worried that we will get the 4th or 5th best QB in this draft, and we will be locked into that for ten more years. The Tannehill zone so to speak. 

 

I enjoyed the party, and  I had a real good time.

Now I am hoping McDermott and Beane have the hangover cure for me, just like you did.  

 

As for the OC, I had no idea he made that much money at Alabama. Thanks for the info.

 

If I had known that coaches would wind up making so much money, I would have tried to be one years ago. But then again you spend all your time with men. All day, 12 hours a day, weekends, with sweaty smelly and sometimes even naked men. Nothing against being with the guys but that is way too much of a good thing for me. Naww. Ok forget that money only buys so much. I need more balance than that in my life.

 

 

2 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

was one hell of a party though ! Thanks.

I am fine , already left.

 signed

 The fat man in the BathTub

See ya next year!

2 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

No problem.

 

Just understand the vet may be Tyrod.

Yeah I figured that might happen. He is probably their cheapest option at this point.

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I see you added Eric Wood, maybe I'm undervaluing him or maybe fans are over valuing him but I saw him as an average piece here, when Groy filled in for him after he broke his leg what seemed like an every other year thing, I didn't even realize Wood was gone to be honest. I feel really bad for the guy, he's done so much with his foundation, the community and was a great leader in our locker room but aside from those things, I've always viewed him as upgradeable, I see so many fans feel the same as you and I just wonder why. I feel the same as you, there are a bunch of positions that need to be tweaked or overhauled here but a QB in place would make things so much less of a worry, you fill in those peices why your QB progresses, getting Kelvin Benjamin was a great start, I don't care what other fans on here think, he's a legit #1 WR , Cam Newton had no trouble with him as the #1, seemed like they were both on the same page but it seems like Beane will put a band aid over a bunch of positions and hope for the best, I'm curious to see what we do at LB since our LB core is horrendous imo.

I didn't see Groy on film because I only watched 2 or 3 games that way.

 

In the 2 or 3 games that i did watch, Wood and Incognito were our only two good offensive linemen. Dawkins looked lkike he might turn out to be good someday but he wasn't now. And the other two on the right actually shouldn't have been playing. So yes to me Woods was a big loss.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

was one hell of a party though ! Thanks.

I am fine , already left.

 signed

 The fat man in the BathTub

 

But did you have the Blues? 

(if so)

I hear you moan, I hear you moan, I hear you moan

18 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I do think  winning has some intrinsic value. But that is more of a superstition, kind of, that I thin I have. Or put another way, I think picking high in the draft has more intrinsic value.

 

I don't think it's a superstition, actually.  I think that teams that tank (or that draft #1 because they are legit horrid) have a worse time turning it around than teams that are mediocre in record and make a play for QB through trade ups (or luck into a guy who proves out in the 2-3 rnd).  Perhaps I'll have an inspiration sometime and actually crunch through the team draft histories and team W-L records to prove it - it's not a straightforward thing to dig out all the info.  But the part I did dig out supports this idea.

 

Quote

How is this different from every other year? Every other mediocre year when we are not good enough to legitimately contend, but we are not bad enough to pick the cream of the crop in the draft?

 

We don't know yet, if it's different or not.  I will say that for "every other year when we are not good enough", exception: 2013, we made a criminal under-investment in the QB position.  So if we do the same this year, you can conclude it's not different.  If we trade up for a QB, including a trade-up in the 2nd round, we're trying to make it different.

 

Edit: and I'm not sure I should make an exception for 2013 as it was a craptastic class to force an investment in QB into.

 

Quote

If I had known that coaches would wind up making so much money, I would have tried to be one years ago. But then again you spend all your time with men. All day, 12 hours a day, weekends, with sweaty smelly and sometimes even naked men. Nothing against being with the guys but that is way too much of a good thing for me. Naww. Ok forget that money only buys so much. I need more balance than that in my life.

 

I could be wrong but I think the coaches mostly see the guys when they're fully clothed - either sitting in meeting rooms, or practice.  But it's a heck of a way to make a living.  Now, trainers....

Edited February 4, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan