quinnearlysghost88 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Caught in the middle of 'attempting to win' vs 'rebuilding'. Also, obligatory side note: I still hate Rodak. http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/28929/if-the-bills-are-not-tanking-what-exactly-are-they-doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 The opportunity to tank left the building when Rex was fired. You aren't going to intentionally tank a season in the first year of the head coach who you want to be here for a long time. That would leave everyone with a bad taste in their mouths - players and fans alike. I can't believe this is so hard for so many to grasp. It's obvious that this team is rebuilding (only six drafted players remain from the previous front office) while simultaneously leaving the foundation of veteran leadership (Kyle, Lorenzo, Wood, Shady, Tolbert, Dimarco, Incognito, Ducasse, etc.) who all fit the criteria of what Beane and McDermott want to establish within the organization. Since when does a team have to tank in order to rebuild? Can you honestly establish a winning culture by purposely trying to lose in Year #1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 They are doing precisely what they have said they're doing. They are looking at both short term and long term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) People continue to overrate draft position with regard to landing a franchise quarterback. If we've learned anything over the decades, it's that no one can predict how a quarterback performs in the NFL. It's a complete and utter crap shoot. So be as good as you can be this season and use both first-round picks on quarterbacks even if they're only the third and fourth best in the class. Because no one really knows. Then let those two and Peterman battle it out throughout the entire 2018 offseason and preseason and pick one. If he's successful, trade the other one. Edited September 6, 2017 by Wayne Arnold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Trading/releasing good young football players for average ones? Not sure. Lordy, are you ever repetitive. Can you ever have a different post than" I hate what McBeane is doing, they are idiots" We get it, we don't need to see it in EVERY SINGLE THREAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 The opportunity to tank left the building when Rex was fired. You aren't going to intentionally tank a season in the first year of the head coach who you want to be here for a long time. That would leave everyone with a bad taste in their mouths - players and fans alike. I can't believe this is so hard for so many to grasp. It's obvious that this team is rebuilding (only six drafted players remain from the previous front office) while simultaneously leaving the foundation of veteran leadership (Kyle, Lorenzo, Wood, Shady, Tolbert, Dimarco, Incognito, Ducasse, etc.) who all fit the criteria of what Beane and McDermott want to establish within the organization. Since when does a team have to tank in order to rebuild? Can you honestly establish a winning culture by purposely trying to lose in Year #1? Well, Wayne, I agree that I don't think they are tanking (and instead are rebuilding), but I disagree that if they were tanking that the players would care. Why? Because those players would already be gone, and possibly to better opportunities. Also it doesn't matter what the fans think. Bills' fans have shown the stunning ability to buy a bunch of tickets and other merchandise during this very lengthy "dry spell". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Well, Wayne, I agree that I don't think they are tanking (and instead are rebuilding), but I disagree that if they were tanking that the players would care. Why? Because those players would already be gone, and possibly to better opportunities. Also it doesn't matter what the fans think. Bills' fans have shown the stunning ability to buy a bunch of tickets and other merchandise during this very lengthy "dry spell". You'd still have 53 players on the roster who are thinking, "What the hell am I doing here?" Each player who is naturally competitive and enjoys the pursuit of winning would certainly care. I really doubt the Jets locker room is a great place to be right now and a breeding ground of a championship attitude. And if you really believe that "it doesn't matter what the fans think" then I'm afraid you haven't a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 The opportunity to tank left the building when Rex was fired. You aren't going to intentionally tank a season in the first year of the head coach who you want to be here for a long time. That would leave everyone with a bad taste in their mouths - players and fans alike. I can't believe this is so hard for so many to grasp. It's obvious that this team is rebuilding (only six drafted players remain from the previous front office) while simultaneously leaving the foundation of veteran leadership (Kyle, Lorenzo, Wood, Shady, Tolbert, Dimarco, Incognito, Ducasse, etc.) who all fit the criteria of what Beane and McDermott want to establish within the organization. Since when does a team have to tank in order to rebuild? Can you honestly establish a winning culture by purposely trying to lose in Year #1? Lorenzo is 34 Incognito is 34 Williams is 34 Wood is 31 Tolbert is 31 McCoy is 29 DiMarco is 28 How does keeping these guys help rebuild the team when you are going to replace all of them in the next couple of years? Opie and the Beane have devastated the young talent on this team. I don't care how many draft choices they have next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 You'd still have 53 players on the roster who are thinking, "What the hell am I doing here?" Each player who is naturally competitive and enjoys the pursuit of winning would certainly care. I really doubt the Jets locker room is a great place to be right now and a breeding ground of a championship attitude. And if you really believe that "it doesn't matter what the fans think" then I'm afraid you haven't a clue. Tell me what great feat Bills' fans have achieved in 17 years that has lead to a winning culture, and a winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 What Are They Doing? driving people bonkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Lorenzo is 34 Incognito is 34 Williams is 34 Wood is 31 Tolbert is 31 McCoy is 29 DiMarco is 28 How does keeping these guys help rebuild the team when you are going to replace all of them in the next couple of years? Opie and the Beane have devastated the young talent on this team. I don't care how many draft choices they have next season. They have two young safeties, two young CBS, a young MLB, relatively young at DE, young WRs. They did not devastate the young talent on the team and it's time to cut down on the hysterical stuff and calmly look at things. If you talk about young talent that is no longer here, the decisions reached by Beane and McD involve Sammy, Darby, Ragland, Seymour, and J Will. Sammy I would not have done, but others have highlighted why that was done. Darby maybe, but maybe not as good as we thought. The others were a 5th or 6th Cb, a third string LB, and a backup RB who cleared waivers. None of the last three are that big a deal. The keeping of veterans is simple: it gives them their best team for right now, and they can clear out salary and space for younger guys going forward. The new guys want to be smart about managing the cap, and they will have draft picks to use either to move up if they want for a QB or to upgrade positions. I'll be interested down the road to see where they think it's beneficial to spend salary money. Finally to say one doesn't care about them having draft picks is simply dumb. Teams get built through the draft. The success of the current management team will sink or swim in drafts. Beane has put together a pretty impressive staff so hopefully they will do well on that score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Lorenzo is 34 Incognito is 34 Williams is 34 Wood is 31 Tolbert is 31 McCoy is 29 DiMarco is 28 How does keeping these guys help rebuild the team when you are going to replace all of them in the next couple of years? Opie and the Beane have devastated the young talent on this team. I don't care how many draft choices they have next season. By giving the young guys role models within the locker room to show them the way. These guys also happen to be the best players on the team. No, they have not "devastated" the young talent on the team. That's ridiculous and more drama queen ranting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToughII Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Trading/releasing good young football players for average ones? Not sure. Over rated, over hyped by Bills fans, type players. Players that never lives up to hype or draft status. Great trades to get something for them and get them off the roster. My only issue is an old saying if you will "you can't serve two masters" IF Beane had come in with , or ahead, of McDermott, this roster would have been fully purged. I expect it to be next offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 sucking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Typical #'s as some "older guys have fewer yrs in the league Ages - 30 to 34 10 w/ 8 to 12 yrs exp Ages - 27 to 29 17 w/ 6 to 9 yrs exp Ages - 22 to 26 26 w/ 0 to 5 yrs exp The majority of this team in new blood or guys getting into or in their prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 By giving the young guys role models within the locker room to show them the way. These guys also happen to be the best players on the team. No, they have not "devastated" the young talent on the team. That's ridiculous and more drama queen ranting. They have two young safeties, two young CBS, a young MLB, relatively young at DE, young WRs. They did not devastate the young talent on the team and it's time to cut down on the hysterical stuff and calmly look at things. If you talk about young talent that is no longer here, the decisions reached by Beane and McD involve Sammy, Darby, Ragland, Seymour, and J Will. Sammy I would not have done, but others have highlighted why that was done. Darby maybe, but maybe not as good as we thought. The others were a 5th or 6th Cb, a third string LB, and a backup RB who cleared waivers. None of the last three are that big a deal. The keeping of veterans is simple: it gives them their best team for right now, and they can clear out salary and space for younger guys going forward. The new guys want to be smart about managing the cap, and they will have draft picks to use either to move up if they want for a QB or to upgrade positions. I'll be interested down the road to see where they think it's beneficial to spend salary money. Finally to say one doesn't care about them having draft picks is simply dumb. Teams get built through the draft. The success of the current management team will sink or swim in drafts. Beane has put together a pretty impressive staff so hopefully they will do well on that score. All right, I'll say it calmly: They have put themselves in a hole that they are going to have to get out of by drafting with a degree of success that few if any teams have mustered consistently. They are going to have more holes to fill than they have draft choices to fill them. This season, if not a tank, is an extended tryout. If I were Kyle Williams, I would figure that my chances of ever seeing a playoff game in my career were materially reduced by the moves made by McDermott and Beane. Of course we will see how brilliant these guys are. I don't see any objective sign that their staff is "impressive." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 It's a house cleaning. The term "tanking" is a fan induced philosophy in terms of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Caught in the middle of 'attempting to win' vs 'rebuilding'. Also, obligatory side note: I still hate Rodak. http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/28929/if-the-bills-are-not-tanking-what-exactly-are-they-doing Rodak doesn't have a clue. What I have seen so far is the Bills re-tooling the roster to fit the style of play of a new coach. It has nothing to do with "tanking". It's building the roster for this year and beyond to fit a certain style of play. How that works out remains to be seen, but this team is not "tanking" anything. Doesn't fit the profile of our HC. It is in fact a ridiculous notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 All right, I'll say it calmly: They have put themselves in a hole that they are going to have to get out of by drafting with a degree of success that few if any teams have mustered consistently. They are going to have more holes to fill than they have draft choices to fill them. This season, if not a tank, is an extended tryout. If I were Kyle Williams, I would figure that my chances of ever seeing a playoff game in my career were materially reduced by the moves made by McDermott and Beane. Of course we will see how brilliant these guys are. I don't see any objective sign that their staff is "impressive." The people Beae has brought on are highly regarded. Several have been mentioned as potential GM candidates themselves. Yes they have to hit on draft picks. No there are not more holes than picks unless you believe they have to turn things over in one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 All right, I'll say it calmly: They have put themselves in a hole that they are going to have to get out of by drafting with a degree of success that few if any teams have mustered consistently. They are going to have more holes to fill than they have draft choices to fill them. This season, if not a tank, is an extended tryout. If I were Kyle Williams, I would figure that my chances of ever seeing a playoff game in my career were materially reduced by the moves made by McDermott and Beane. Of course we will see how brilliant these guys are. I don't see any objective sign that their staff is "impressive." The current front office didn't create this hole. The previous one did. So in order to be successful, this front office and coaching staff are going to have to draft well? Rodak doesn't have a clue. What I have seen so far is the Bills re-tooling the roster to fit the style of play of a new coach. It has nothing to do with "tanking". It's building the roster for this year and beyond to fit a certain style of play. How that works out remains to be seen, but this team is not "tanking" anything. Doesn't fit the profile of our HC. It is in fact a ridiculous notion. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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