Sky Diver Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) As a university (importantly, I'm including graduate programs), UCLA and Michigan are heads and shoulders above Vanderbilt; above Northwestern; and below Berkeley. And what I'm saying here is the conventional wisdom, for whatever that is worth. Vanderbilt is a phenomenal undergraduate institution and I don't mean to demean it at all. But if you have a PhD in, say, political science from Michigan, you are far more likely to get a job as a professor than if your PhD is from Vanderbilt. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/09/03/study-examines-trends-phd-programs-produce-political-science-professors I realize we are talking about undergrads here, of course. As a university (importantly, I'm including graduate programs), UCLA and Michigan are heads and shoulders above Vanderbilt; above Northwestern; and below Berkeley. And what I'm saying here is the conventional wisdom, for whatever that is worth. Vanderbilt is a phenomenal undergraduate institution and I don't mean to demean it at all. But if you have a PhD in, say, political science from Michigan, you are far more likely to get a job as a professor than if your PhD is from Vanderbilt. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/09/03/study-examines-trends-phd-programs-produce-political-science-professors I realize we are talking about undergrads here, of course. Probably true because of bias, not because Vandy isn't a great school. Edited August 10, 2017 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 It is for all intents and purposes a requirement. I can't think of one player in the NFL who didn't get there through the college system. Eric Swann says hello! :-) (I checked this before posting.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) He called out Alabama and Clemson.because he is an ignorant, spoiled elitist, Not the sort of leader of men you want at QB. Once again, how is he an elitist for saying he goes to a better school with higher academic standards? And how the hell does this translate to not being a leader of men? Edited August 10, 2017 by stony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I understand, but one can make a point without using examples that throw others under the bus. Meh, I'm just going to agree to disagree. I take absolutely no issue with what he said. And by 'throwing a national brand under the bus' he likely gave the conversation more fuel to keep burning than if he hadn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Once again, how is he an elitist for saying he goes to a better school with higher academic standards? And how the hell does this translate to not being a leader of men? The average ACT score of athletes at UCLA in 2014 was 21.5. 15% were college illiterate. Do you call that high standards? And how does he know what UA's standards are? As far as I know, they don't report SAT/ACT results for athletes. His remarks could be construed as being racist. That would go over real well in the locker room. Edited August 10, 2017 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The average ACT score of athletes at UCLA in 2014 was 21.5. 15% were college illiterate. Do you call that high standards? And how does he know what UA's standards are for athletes? As far as I know, they don't report SAT/SAT results for athletes. His remarks could be construed as being racist. That would go over real well in the locker room. I could care less what the average ACT score is for a student athlete at UCLA. But I'm 100% certain that using the average ACT score for the athletic department as a measuring stick for an entire university is stupid. But again, that's not what I asked. Why is he not a leader of men because he thinks he goes to a better school than Alabama? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 UA was #1 in enrolling National Merit Scholars in 2011 - 2012. Yeah, bunch of dolts at UA. lol. http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/news/20130206/ua-tops-list-of-freshman-national-merit-scholars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Eric Swann says hello! :-) (I checked this before posting.) Good one! I forgot about him. He was a novelty back in the day. Good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 What it comes down to is fans view players as pieces of meat. They care about them as long as they can help their team. They don't give 2 craps about the person. James Brooks was a guy who played for Auburn and the Bengals. Despite going to college for 4 years, he was illiterate. He is far from the only athlete who is that position. Kids are forced to go to college to play football and basketball professionally. Rosen will be fine. But what about the poorer kid who doesn't leave up to expectations or gets hurt and doesn't go pro? The NCAA is a joke and it's also a joke that only football and basketball players are forced to go to college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) I could care less what the average ACT score is for a student athlete at UCLA. But I'm 100% certain that using the average ACT score for the athletic department as a measuring stick for an entire university is stupid. But again, that's not what I asked. Why is he not a leader of men because he thinks he goes to a better school than Alabama? And who is using these results as a measuring stick for the whole university? UA enrolls a lot more low end students than UCLA. No is disputing that, but why is that a bad thing? Keep in mind that Alabama also enrolls a lot of really high end students. 40% of the freshman have >30 ACTs. To suggest that UA is a crappy school is just showing your ignorance. Edited August 10, 2017 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 And who is using these results as a measuring stick for the whole universities? UA enrolls a lot more low end students than UCLA. No is disputing that, but why is that a bad thing? Keep in mind that Alabama also enrolls a lot of really high end students. 40% of the freshman have >30 ACTs. To suggest that UA is a crappy school is just showing your ignorance. Alabama is not as good as good of a school as UCLA. It's a fine southern school but it's just not as good. And their athletes are held to different standards than Stanford. It's not hating, it's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 And who is using these results as a measuring stick for the whole universities? UA enrolls a lot more low end students than UCLA. No is disputing that, but why is that a bad thing? Keep in mind that Alabama also enrolls a lot of really high end students. 40% of the freshman have >30 ACTs. To suggest that UA is a crappy school is just showing your ignorance. Alabama is a good school. Ironically given how this discussion has gone, the school owes a lot to the football program, which has been a key driver of its improvement. The program hands over incredible amounts of money to the school. Yes, some of that goes to Saban's incredibly high salary ($7 million), but the surplus is generally plowed back into the university's academic programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) UA was #1 in enrolling National Merit Scholars in 2011 - 2012. Yeah, bunch of dolts at UA. lol. http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/news/20130206/ua-tops-list-of-freshman-national-merit-scholars That's about 1% of what the topic is about. A fact without any context at all to the main point. BRAVO!!!! Bama isn't seen as a criminal enterprise school.(such as Oklahoma, UNLV, anywhere Calipari sets up shop....) Edited August 10, 2017 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 ... And to lighten the mood here a little bit, I felt compelled to add this: http://deadspin.com/kitty-on-the-field-fights-cardinals-employee-inspires-1797702195 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 What it comes down to is fans view players as pieces of meat. They care about them as long as they can help their team. They don't give 2 craps about the person. James Brooks was a guy who played for Auburn and the Bengals. Despite going to college for 4 years, he was illiterate. He is far from the only athlete who is that position. Kids are forced to go to college to play football and basketball professionally. Rosen will be fine. But what about the poorer kid who doesn't leave up to expectations or gets hurt and doesn't go pro? The NCAA is a joke and it's also a joke that only football and basketball players are forced to go to college. The "poorer kid who doesn't live up to expectations" was given the chance to attend for free. He likely would have never stepped foot on campus without football. The "poorer kid" has many societal factors working against them. The NCAA is not solely responsible for their shortcomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Alabama is a good school. Ironically given how this discussion has gone, the school owes a lot to the football program, which has been a key driver of its improvement. The program hands over incredible amounts of money to the school. Yes, some of that goes to Saban's incredibly high salary ($7 million), but the surplus is generally plowed back into the university's academic programs. The university has said that hiring Saban was the best financial move they have ever made. You're right, the football program kicks money back to the university. The campus/facilities at UA are incredible. I am sure that they treat their athletes pretty well. http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2017/08/see_the_univeristy_of_alabamas.html Rosen also called out Clemson demeaning two of their football players who graduated in 3 yrs. Clemson is a fine school too. I guess Rosen has a dim view of any school in the south? Edited August 10, 2017 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The "poorer kid who doesn't live up to expectations" was given the chance to attend for free. He likely would have never stepped foot on campus without football. The "poorer kid" has many societal factors working against them. The NCAA is not solely responsible for their shortcomings. Preventing the poorer kid from getting a real degree while on campus is working against him. Whether they honestly had the tools to get one is another matter. Makes for a great six-way binding of hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Why are you glad that he made an ass out of himself? maybe because I don't view him as an ass, nor his actions. pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) The university has said that hiring Saban was the best financial move they have ever made. You're right, the football program kicks money back to the university. The campus/facilities at UA are incredible. I am sure that they treat their athletes pretty well. http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2017/08/see_the_univeristy_of_alabamas.html Rosen also called out Clemson demeaning two of their football players who graduated in 3 yrs. Clemson is a fine school too. I guess Rosen has a dim view of any school in the south? I do think that Clemson gets a lot of guys who really aren't fit for college. (Cough cough ... CJ Spiller.) Rosen would definitely have been right about that if he said it (which he didn't). The same goes for FSU. Edited August 10, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The university has said that hiring Saban was the best financial move they have ever made. You're right, the football program kicks money back to the university. The campus/facilities at UA are incredible. I am sure that they treat their athletes pretty well. http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2017/08/see_the_univeristy_of_alabamas.html Rosen also called out Clemson demeaning two of their football players who graduated in 3 yrs. Clemson is a fine school too. I guess Rosen has a dim view of any school in the south? No, he didn't do that at all... The interviewer was the one who brought them up in the first place. His response was that they should be applauded for that. B/R: How is it, then, that some guys graduate in three years? Deshaun Watson graduated in three years from Clemson. So did his roommate, Artavis Scott. Rosen: I'm not knocking what those guys accomplished. They should be applauded for that. But certain schools are easier than others. B/R: It can't be that simple. Rosen: If I wanted to graduate in three years, I'd just get a sociology degree. I want to get my MBA. I want to create my own business. When I'm finished with football, I want a seamless transition to life and work and what I've dreamed about doing all my life. I want to own the world. Every young person should be able to have that dream and the ability to access it. I don't think that's too much to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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