JM2009 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Oh stop it already...You know damn well we DONT shutout Pats without those EXTREME circumstances. So let me get this straight...in your relentless quest to put TT down in any creative way you can, you somehow think propping up a defense which was bottom 6 in 15 of its 16 games to "average" makes sense? You also believe a team that gives up over TWENTY FIVE points per game in NINETY FOUR PERCENT of its games (15 of the 16) is Average? If you believe that, and I mean truly believe that, then you don't know enough about football to ever comment rationally again. No one in the world other than someone like you trying to defend the defense in order to slander Taylor would ever claim that a team who gives up over 25 points per game on D in 15 of its 16 games is "AVERAGE". Not to mention the ONE game anomaly was without 2 of the greatest players ever at their positions, without the backup to one of them, and started a rookie crap QB with a hurt throwing hand. This is why nothing you say can be taken seriously. I don't care about your or anyone else stance on Tyrod, the FACTS remain the defense was literally and factually one of the worst performing defenses in the NFL last year...PERIOD. Its not something that is even open to interpretation, its an undeniable fact. So please, stop spreading this non sense lie that the D was Average JUST so you can then say TT was worse, which is categorically not true. PS: Why don't you go look up the Pats average Points Per game last year with Brady at the helm...then come back and tell me the shutout is a valid gauge to the performance of the D. Defense gave up an average of 33 points to playoff teams in 2016. The biggest concern which I do not see mentioned is the fact that the defense only had 18 turnovers. The Bills finished plus six in turnover differential only because the offense didn't turn the ball over very much. As poor as Oakland's defense was, they still recorded 30 take aways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Those two games are not equivalent in their statistical relevance. One is a normal game, the other is not. Yes, but it would only improve the offense's ranking if we didn't. You can eliminate it if you want, but I don't think that would be honest. Ooo so we are classifying "normal" games now. Ok throw the entire game out Run the points for and points against (yes take the offense production out too because not a normal game). Then also take the win away as well you know not a "normal" game Also San Fran not a "normal" game either with BU QB and a college defense Edited August 9, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 FTFY. So our defense loses the shutout, and TT technically went 6-9 last year as our starter. Sounds fair. TT did not play in the Jets game at the end. Nice try. For the record he is 8-6, 7-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) FTFY. So our defense loses the shutout, and TT technically went 6-9 last year as our starter. Sounds fair. It's funny that you changed the quote to "team," and then proceeded to specifically blame Tyrod for the loss that you agreed is only guaranteed because Brady would have shredded our defense. Ooo so we are classifying "normal" games now. Ok throw the entire game out Run the points for and points against (yes take the offense production out too because not a normal game). Then also take the win away as well you know not a "normal" game Also San Fran not a "normal" game either with BU QB and a college defense You're not doing yourself any favors. A QB that took his team to the Super Bowl is not the same as an injured third string rookie. Also, last time I checked, they don't allow college players to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure I qualified "normal" as "statistically relevant." In order to be relevant, it has to be repeatable. Other teams played against the 49ers with Kaepernick. No other team played against an injured Brissett. Edited August 9, 2017 by MPT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) It's funny that you changed the quote to "team," and then proceeded to specifically blame Tyrod for the loss that you agreed is only guaranteed because Brady would have shredded our defense. You're not doing yourself any favors. A QB that took his team to the Super Bowl is not the same as an injured third string rookie. Also, last time I checked, they don't allow college players to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure I qualified "normal" as "statistically relevant." In order to be relevant, it has to be repeatable. Other teams played against the 49ers with Kaepernick. No other team played against Brissett. Got it your part of the pick and chose what to apply crew. Thanks Up next we will get down to picking and choosing which drives can be used and which should be thrown out for both offense and defense. Edited August 9, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Lock it down. CoT getting too excited by all the hypothetical wins. The shark has been jumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 It's funny that you changed the quote to "team," and then proceeded to specifically blame Tyrod for the loss that you agreed is only guaranteed because Brady would have shredded our defense. You're not doing yourself any favors. A QB that took his team to the Super Bowl is not the same as an injured third string rookie. Also, last time I checked, they don't allow college players to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure I qualified "normal" as "statistically relevant." In order to be relevant, it has to be repeatable. Other teams played against the 49ers with Kaepernick. No other team played against an injured Brissett. I think Brissett started when NE beat Houston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Defense gave up an average of 33 points to playoff teams in 2016. The biggest concern which I do not see mentioned is the fact that the defense only had 18 turnovers. The Bills finished plus six in turnover differential only because the offense didn't turn the ball over very much. As poor as Oakland's defense was, they still recorded 30 take aways.Turnover differential is arguably the best predictor of making the playoffs or not, out of any stat other than points scored (obviously). In 2016 - 6 out of the top 10 teams in turnover differential made the playoffs, while just 1 out of the bottom 10 teams made the playoffs. In 2015 - 7 of the top 10 made the playoffs, while 0 of the bottom 10 made the playoffs. In 2014 - 6 of the top 10 made the playoffs, while 1 of the bottom 10 made the playoffs. So for the past 3 seasons, 19/30 top 10 teams make the playoffs (63.3%). While 2/30 bottom 10 teams make the playoffs (6.7%) The Bills are the only team to be top 10 all 3 years and not make the playoffs in any of them (long sigh). In 2014 we had a lot of takeaways (30) but also gave the ball away a lot (23). The last 2 years it's been the opposite. If the defense took the ball away as much as the offense doesn't, we would have surely made the playoffs one of the last 2 years. I'm really sick of people pretending defense doesn't matter when the stats show the opposite. Edited August 9, 2017 by HappyDays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I think Brissett started when NE beat Houston Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Turnover differential is arguably the best predictor of making the playoffs or not, out of any stat other than points scored (obviously). In 2016 - 6 out of the top 10 teams in turnover differential made the playoffs, while just 1 out of the bottom 10 teams made the playoffs. In 2015 - 7 of the top 10 made the playoffs, while 0 of the bottom 10 made the playoffs. In 2014 - 6 of the top 10 made the playoffs, while 1 of the bottom 10 made the playoffs. So for the past 3 seasons, 19/30 top 10 teams make the playoffs (63.3%). While 2/30 bottom 10 teams make the playoffs (6.7%) The Bills are the only team to be top 10 all 3 years and not make the playoffs in any of them (long sigh). In 2014 we had a lot of turnovers (30) but also gave the ball away a lot (23). The last 2 years it's been the opposite. If the defense took the ball away as much as the offense doesn't, we would have surely made the playoffs one of the last 2 years. I'm really sick of people pretending defense doesn't matter when the stats show the opposite. Good find here.Hopefully this is the season in which the defense gets more take aways. I'm pretty sure that the offense should continue with the low turnover numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) TT did not play in the Jets game at the end. Nice try. For the record he is 8-6, 7-8. That's why I said 6-9 not 6-10. It's funny that you changed the quote to "team," and then proceeded to specifically blame Tyrod for the loss that you agreed is only guaranteed because Brady would have shredded our defense. You're not doing yourself any favors. A QB that took his team to the Super Bowl is not the same as an injured third string rookie. Also, last time I checked, they don't allow college players to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure I qualified "normal" as "statistically relevant." In order to be relevant, it has to be repeatable. Other teams played against the 49ers with Kaepernick. No other team played against an injured Brissett. I didn't blame TT. He just went 6-9 as our starter. The team went 6-10, because TT wasn't the starter for every game. Edited August 9, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I think Brissett started when NE beat Houston He did, but he also tore a thumb ligament on his throwing hand towards the end of that game. MAJBobby and Maury have been trolling around claiming that an injured third string quarterback is statistically equivalent to Tom Brady. Yeah. Let that settle in, and then decide if you want to hop into this can of worms. That's why I said 6-9 not 6-10. I didn't blame TT. He just went 6-9 as our starter. The team went 6-10, because TT wasn't the starter for every game. That's fair enough, but that would just bring us back to the debate over the cause of a 6-10 record. Since we've agreed that the hypothetical loss to NE1 is due to Tom Brady demolishing our defense, the answer remains the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 He did, but he also tore a thumb ligament on his throwing hand towards the end of that game. MAJBobby and Maury have been trolling around claiming that an injured third string quarterback is statistically equivalent to Tom Brady. Yeah. Let that settle in, and then decide if you want to hop into this can of worms. That's fair enough, but that would just bring us back to the debate over the cause of a 6-10 record. Since we've agreed that the hypothetical loss to NE1 is due to Tom Brady demolishing our defense, the answer remains the same. That makes no sense, but neither do they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Lock it down. CoT getting too excited by all the hypothetical wins. The shark has been jumped. ...yup...key in the door....thread starts out about spotting and anticipatory throwing and has morphed into 25 + pages of garbage from the usual yipsters.....many of which should buy an enema kit.......Jesus........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 He did, but he also tore a thumb ligament on his throwing hand towards the end of that game. MAJBobby and Maury have been trolling around claiming that an injured third string quarterback is statistically equivalent to Tom Brady. Yeah. Let that settle in, and then decide if you want to hop into this can of worms. That's fair enough, but that would just bring us back to the debate over the cause of a 6-10 record. Since we've agreed that the hypothetical loss to NE1 is due to Tom Brady demolishing our defense, the answer remains the same. Well, it'd be due to Tom Brady scoring more against our defense than TT and the offense would score against theirs. 6-10 is bad though. 6 wins is a rough look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Well, it'd be due to Tom Brady scoring more against our defense than TT and the offense would score against theirs. 6-10 is bad though. 6 wins is a rough look. I'll continue to say it-if the defense/ST holds for one minute in the Miami game and TT plays against the Jets, two more wins. Edited August 9, 2017 by JM2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I'll continue to say it-if the defense/ST holds for one minute in the Miami game and TT plays against the Jets, two more wins. If if if if...... Brady plays the Bills go 6-10 but if the defense holds in the Miami game the Bills go 7-9 and if TT plays and beats the Jets the Bills go 8-8. Whoop T Doo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 He did, but he also tore a thumb ligament on his throwing hand towards the end of that game. MAJBobby and Maury have been trolling around claiming that an injured third string quarterback is statistically equivalent to Tom Brady. Yeah. Let that settle in, and then decide if you want to hop into this. Can you show me the link where I said anything about Brissett/Brady ? I'm just sitting here laughing at the if's and hypotheticals. Please don't add me to the tall tales of the CoT. You're trying too hard. I'll continue to say it-if the defense/ST holds for one minute in the Miami game and TT plays against the Jets, two more wins. If Marylyn Monroe wasn't banging JFK, it would've been me I'll continue to say that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 If if if if...... Brady plays the Bills go 6-10 but if the defense holds in the Miami game the Bills go 7-9 and if TT plays and beats the Jets the Bills go 8-8. Whoop T Doo! What's wrong with 8-8? Newsflash: this is an average roster under the Pegulas. Bills need some breaks, like Miami had last season, to get those 10 wins for a WC. And since Brady did not play, the Bills won. The defense/ST holds for a minute and the WC is still open heading into the Jets game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) What's wrong with 8-8? . Ask Jeff Fisher Edited August 9, 2017 by Maury Ballstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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