thebandit27 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) How did he do in 2016 when he missed half the year with an injury? If your going to analyze his performance just dont cherry pick seasons. Lets look at the big picture. Throw 2014 in there also. I could look at JP Losmans game against Houston and conclude hes a perenial pro bowler. Also explain why the Bills didnt pick up his fifth year. Cant wait to hear that one. I'll be 100% honest: right now, I'm trying to decide if you're just messing with me, because the other alternative wouldn't speak well of you... 1) the player profiler site doesn't have data that goes back to 2014 2) the poster asked for a comparison for when he's on the field, ergo an analysis of the games he missed would be idiotic in light of that request 3) I already answered your tangential-to-the-point-at-best question about why they didn't pick up his option 2 pages ago http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/194793-sammy-to-be-100-ready-to-go-for-training-camp/page-2?do=findComment&comment=4437962 For the sake of your reputation on the board, please consider stopping the nonsensical garbage where you ignore all facts presented that run counter to your argument. Edited July 25, 2017 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 You're wrong again. I've posted Watkins route distribution on this page before, but once more can't hurt: http://www.thebackya...is-ceiling.html According to the above, in 2015... 23.5% of his routes were fly patterns 50.4% of his routes were inward-breaking 26.1% of his routes were outward-breaking I also see that you're back to making straw-man arguments. I have no clue how you can draw any conclusion that I'm happy with 17 years of no playoffs based on the fact that I won't let you get away with making false statements about Sammy Watkins. Then again, I don't know how folks like yourself can get your vs. you're wrong every single time either As to tough players playing through pain, imagine if Sammy was the most productive receiver in the NFL over the final 9 games of 2015 while playing on a broken foot...that'd really be something #factsoverfeelings Wheres Andres numbers? Or do you just like to make a one sided arguement. Id also like to know the specific route breakdown of every inward route. Did he go two yards in, five yards in, ten yards in. If your going to rely on analytics you need to be thorough. This is just a lazy incomplete argument on your part. With a scattering of stats that are designed more to mislead than explain. Stop trying to show everyone how smart you are cause you are really embarrassing yourself right now. Its pathetic and sad. I'll be 100% honest: right now, I'm trying to decide if you're just messing with me, because the other alternative wouldn't speak well of you... 1) the player profiler site doesn't have data that goes back to 2014 2) the poster asked for a comparison for when he's on the field, ergo an analysis of the games he missed would be idiotic in light of that request 3) I already answered your tangential-to-the-point-at-best question about why they didn't pick up his option 2 pages ago http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/194793-sammy-to-be-100-ready-to-go-for-training-camp/page-2?do=findComment&comment=4437962 For the sake of your reputation on the board, please consider stopping the nonsensical garbage where you ignore all facts presented that run counter to your argument. Tell me why they didnt pick up his option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Wheres Andres numbers? Or do you just like to make a one sided arguement. Id also like to know the specific route breakdown of every inward route. Did he go two yards in, five yards in, ten yards in. If your going to rely on analytics you need to be thorough. This is just a lazy incomplete argument on your part. With a scattering of stats that are designed more to mislead than explain. Stop trying to show everyone how smart you are cause you are really embarrassing yourself right now. Its pathetic and sad. Let's take a poll and see how many posters agree that I'm the one embarrassing myself in this discussion...what say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hes so great. They gave up a first and fourth to move up. Why didnt they pick up his option? Thats the bottom line. Tell me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hes so great. They gave up a first and fourth to move up. Why didnt they pick up his option? Thats the bottom line. Tell me!!! Learn. To. Read. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/194793-sammy-to-be-100-ready-to-go-for-training-camp/page-2?do=findComment&comment=4437962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Still waiting...Tic toc tic toc tic toc!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hes so great. They gave up a first and fourth to move up. Why didnt they pick up his option? Thats the bottom line. Tell me!!! its a full injury guarantee I think, while if we wait and his foot is still a mangled mess we can not be stuck with a huge cap hit for a non-contributor, The non-exclusive tag isn't that much more cap space than the 4th overall picks 5th year option if i recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hes so great. They gave up a first and fourth to move up. Why didnt they pick up his option? Thats the bottom line. Tell me!!! Injuries. Bandit has set out a number of times why he thinks they were wrong not to.... but they haven't picked up his option because this foot issue has been lingering for 2 years now and they are clearly concerned about whether it will ever heel properly. Also if it does and he balls out in 2017 the difference in $$ terms between a 5th year option and the 1st year of a long term deal is in all likelyhood relatively small... as is the difference between the option and the franchise tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Wheres Andres numbers? Or do you just like to make a one sided arguement. Id also like to know the specific route breakdown of every inward route. Did he go two yards in, five yards in, ten yards in. If your going to rely on analytics you need to be thorough. This is just a lazy incomplete argument on your part. With a scattering of stats that are designed more to mislead than explain. Stop trying to show everyone how smart you are cause you are really embarrassing yourself right now. Its pathetic and sad. Tell me why they didnt pick up his option? Actually my friend, Bandit is one of the most knowledgeable posters we have on this board. A solid contributor to say the least. He backs his statements up with statistics and doesn't just throw s*** at the wall like some I have seen over the last 10 years. Step back from the emotion and look at the insight. You will be able to understand what he is conveying then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) Hes so great. They gave up a first and fourth to move up. Why didnt they pick up his option? Thats the bottom line. Tell me!!! Franchise tag isn't much different than his 5th year option. They are playing it smart for once on the injury and not getting hung. The bandito has a long history of knowledgeable posting. Edited July 25, 2017 by Mike in Horseheads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Ok. My apologies. In the 500 paragraphs youve written defending him I missed that. There concerned with the foot. Probably also concerned with some of his other injuries. Which is all im saying. Hes a great receiver when healthy. Pretty sure I already said that. Id even go as far as top ten. But hes been hurt. And his production since he got drafted is far below that of Evans and Beckham. Due in part to him not being on the field. Or not being close to 100 percent when on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 And his production since he got drafted is far below that of Evans and Beckham. Due in part to him not being on the field. Or not being close to 100 percent when on it. And in other part from not throwing him the ball enough. Which was Bandit's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Ok. My apologies. In the 500 paragraphs youve written defending him I missed that. There concerned with the foot. Probably also concerned with some of his other injuries. Which is all im saying. Hes a great receiver when healthy. Pretty sure I already said that. Id even go as far as top ten. But hes been hurt. And his production since he got drafted is far below that of Evans and Beckham. Due in part to him not being on the field. Or not being close to 100 percent when on it. To be fair - his stats align really closely with the first 3 years of Julio Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Franchise tag isn't much different than his 5th year option. They are playing it smart for once on the injury and not getting hung. So if thats your reasoning. That the franchise tag isnt much different. Why does anybody pick up a fifth year? Dont worry. I got this. Cause teams typically wont franchise a player more than one or two seasons. Because using the fifth year option enables them to save the franchise tag for year sixth. Which keeps the player on the team one year longer. Which gives the team more time to negotiate a long term deal. The fact they didnt pick up year five is a red flag. If Sammys coming off consecutive pro bowls they are exercising that option. To be fair - his stats align really closely with the first 3 years of Julio Jones. Agreed. And that gives me some reason for hope. Im not saying Watkins is terrible. Im just saying there are concerns. Concerns the team clearly shares. Some players are more prone to injury than others. We wont really have and answer on Sammy for another 4 or 5 years. Correct me if Im wrong but Julio had the same problem with his foot didnt he? In his 3rd year. So there is hope. But there are also question marks. Huge year for Watkins. Hope he catches 100 balls for 1500 yards and 15 tds and gets a huge extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 So if thats your reasoning. That the franchise tag isnt much different. Why does anybody pick up a fifth year? Dont worry. I got this. Cause teams typically wont franchise a player more than one or two seasons. Because using the fifth year option enables them to save the franchise tag for year sixth. Which keeps the player on the team one year longer. Which gives the team more time to negotiate a long term deal. The fact they didnt pick up year five is a red flag. If Sammys coming off consecutive pro bowls they are exercising that option. I guess you didn't read the second sentence, here I'll help you.... They are playing it smart for once on the injury and not getting hung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) And in other part from not throwing him the ball enough. Which was Bandit's point. Thats a valid point but the injury issue is a valid point also and its likely why the team didnt exercise his fifth year. Dont understand why people get their asses up when you bring up the injury issue. Its a real issue. If it wasnt theyd be negotiating a six year, 90 million plus extension right now because he is an immense talent. Dont think anyone is debating his talent level. Its the ability to be on the field and be productive consistently.I guess you didn't read the second sentence, here I'll help you.... They are playing it smart for once on the injury and not getting hung.No. I did read the second sentence. You brought up the franchise tag and ignored the fact that teams typically use the fifth year option if they have no concerns about the player. Clearly the Bills have concerns. Its why they didnt execute the option. It has little to do with the tag. If they were sold on Watkins they would have excercised the option and saved the tag which they then could have used in year six if they couldnt come to a long term agreement. Edited July 25, 2017 by Billsmovinup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Ok. My apologies. In the 500 paragraphs youve written defending him I missed that. There concerned with the foot. Probably also concerned with some of his other injuries. Which is all im saying. Hes a great receiver when healthy. Pretty sure I already said that. Id even go as far as top ten. But hes been hurt. And his production since he got drafted is far below that of Evans and Beckham. Due in part to him not being on the field. Or not being close to 100 percent when on it. And if you look at how many times those guys were targeted you will see the discrepancy between them. Sammy has seen far less targets than Beckham or Evans in his first few years in this league. Last year he was hurt and missed considerable time, yes, but prior to he had not seen the targets except during his 6 week stretch at the end of 2015 where he put up 679yds and 6 TD's in that time. When he gets the ball he puts up elite numbers. There are many plays where Sammy is open, but for whatever reason the QB doesn't look his way. There aren't too many CB's in this league that can lock him down one on one. If they feed him then he will produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) And if you look at how many times those guys were targeted you will see the discrepancy between them. Sammy has seen far less targets than Beckham or Evans in his first few years in this league. Last year he was hurt and missed considerable time, yes, but prior to he had not seen the targets except during his 6 week stretch at the end of 2015 where he put up 679yds and 6 TD's in that time. When he gets the ball he puts up elite numbers. There are many plays where Sammy is open, but for whatever reason the QB doesn't look his way. There aren't too many CB's in this league that can lock him down one on one. If they feed him then he will produce. Agree with all of that but the injury issue remains. Its why they didnt pick up his option. They want to see him make it though a whole year with minimal injury issues before they sign him long term. Edited July 25, 2017 by Billsmovinup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Which, honestly, if anyone here thinks Watkins plays even 12 games this year... I want the kid to succeed, I just don't envision the injury history truly being behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Which, honestly, if anyone here thinks Watkins plays even 12 games this year... I want the kid to succeed, I just don't envision the injury history truly being behind him. Started his career by playing in 29 of 32 games in the 1st two seasons. You envisioning him having further injuries is based on what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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