"Tyrod is the Bills ____ best player?"

[Kirby Jackson]

Last season? Or like, where we think he falls this season?

I guess that it's as of today. If you were to rank the Bills players 1-89 based on "how good of a football player they are" where would he fall?

[GunnerBill]

Last season? Or like, where we think he falls this season?

 

For info PFF had him 4th on the team last season.... behind Incognito, Shady and Kyle. The difference in grades for Tyrod, Zach Brown, Dareus and Glenn were all well within the margin of error (0.3). Obviously Zach has gone.... (and I didn't have him that high anyway) but those others in that list are what my eye test tells me as well. Jerry Hughes graded poorly last year though he had graded exceptionally well boardering on elite the previous 3 seasons.

 

I don't think PFF is everything... but on the Bills I think the grades last year pretty much match my own film study.

Edited July 21, 2017 by GunnerBill

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I guess that it's as of today. If you were to rank the Bills players 1-89 based on "how good of a football player they are" where would he fall?

 

I mean -

Shady for sure

Watkins if he plays

Dareus if he tries

Hughes if he's healthy

Maybe Cog, Lorax, KW? They're all 1 year older.

 

Never seen white or hyde play so i can't say. Darby had a lot of stinkers last year. Ragland and Lawson, who knows?

 

Looking at last year - Tyrod was probably our 2nd best player.

[C.Biscuit97]

Off the top of my head, here's the list of who's ahead of him imo:

 

Shady

Sammy

Glenn

Incognito

Dareus

Kyle

Hughes

Hyde

 

So I guess I'd say he's 9th

Solid list. I'd put Clay ahead of Tyrod because I think his numbers are direct result of Tyrod's deficiencies. I also think Wood is a good C and would be tempted to put him ahead of TT as well, though I'm not banging the table on that.

 

It's an interesting question Kirby. I don't have the time b it is love to see this for every team in the NFL & do a comparison. I'm sure Alex Smith is somewhere similar to Tyrod on the Chiefs where as Brady, Brees, & Rodgers are far superior to anyone else on their teams.

[GunnerBill]

Looking at last year - Tyrod was probably our 2nd best player.

 

 

I simply do not agree. Shady and Richie were our best two players last year, that isn't even debateable.... Kyle is up there too and I personally had a hobbled Cordy Glenn above him too. I posted the PFF rankings (again it isn't everything... it is one tool) above. I think it makes interesting debate. Tyrod's game also translates really well to analytics websites.... which struggle with "chance taking" QBs.

[Maury Ballstein]

I mean -

Shady for sure

Watkins if he plays

Dareus if he tries

Hughes if he's healthy

Maybe Cog, Lorax, KW? They're all 1 year older.

 

Never seen white or hyde play so i can't say. Darby had a lot of stinkers last year. Ragland and Lawson, who knows?

 

Looking at last year - Tyrod was probably our 2nd best player.

2nd ? 31st ranked passing attack makes you 2nd ?

 

Are you hiring ? What's Trevor Simien's rank ?

Edited July 21, 2017 by Maury Ballstein

[C.Biscuit97]

 

For info PFF had him 4th on the team last season.... behind Incognito, Shady and Kyle. The difference in grades for Tyrod, Zach Brown, Dareus and Glenn were all well within the margin of error (0.3). Obviously Zach has gone.... (and I didn't have him that high anyway) but those others in that list are what my eye test tells me as well. Jerry Hughes graded poorly last year though he had graded exceptionally well boardering on elite the previous 3 seasons.

 

I don't think PFF is everything... but on the Bills I think the grades last year pretty much match my own film study.

I get the purpose of PFF but it is extremely flawed. For instance, without noting play calls and assignments on plays, it's really hard to determine fault.

 

Also, Tyrod benefits greatly in all stat categories because of his lack of int. But this doesn't take into account open WRs missed or not thrown to for fear of a turnover. I think Favre would look a lot worse in PFF ratings than the HOF qb he is.

[GunnerBill]

I get the purpose of PFF but it is extremely flawed. For instance, without noting play calls and assignments on plays, it's really hard to determine fault.

 

Also, Tyrod benefits greatly in all stat categories because of his lack of int. But this doesn't take into account open WRs missed or not thrown to for fear of a turnover. I think Favre would look a lot worse in PFF ratings than the HOF qb he is.

 

No of course. I think PFF is flawed too it is one tool.... there are plenty of others. I just struggle to see a metric by which I'd put Tyrod as our 2nd best player last season. Even their assessment - which you are absolutely right values QBs who don't throw picks so probably inflates Tyrod - has him as the 4th best on our team and 3 other players within 0.3 points of him. I just use it to add some colour to this discussion.

 

To my mind our best 6 players are inarguable and I could take an argument for Tyrod as the 7th best..... or the 8th best or the 9th best....

[C.Biscuit97]

 

No of course. I think PFF is flawed too it is one tool.... there are plenty of others. I just struggle to see a metric by which I'd put Tyrod as our 2nd best player last season. Even their assessment - which you are absolutely right values QBs who don't throw picks so probably inflates Tyrod - has him as the 4th best on our team and 3 other players within 0.3 points of him. I just use it to add some colour to this discussion.

 

To my mind our best 6 players are inarguable and I could take an argument for Tyrod as the 7th best..... or the 8th best or the 9th best....

Good post. I would love a tool that measure missed WRs or holding the ball too long. Again, Rob Johnson had a higher career qb rating on the Bills than Jim Kelly.

[Scott7975]

Agree with 8th. DiMarco out Hughes in. My order:

 

1 Shady

2 Glenn

3 Dareus

4 Sammy

5 Kyle

6 Richie

-------------

7 Jerry

8 Tyrod

 

I put the line there because to my mind those 6 shouldn't even be argued with. There can be a debate about the order (particularly after the top 2) and I would not die in a ditch over putting Tyrod 7th.

This is probably about where I'd put it. I might add Darby in there if he goes back to rookie form.

[Kirby Jackson]

Solid list. I'd put Clay ahead of Tyrod because I think his numbers are direct result of Tyrod's deficiencies. I also think Wood is a good C and would be tempted to put him ahead of TT as well, though I'm not banging the table on that.

 

It's an interesting question Kirby. I don't have the time b it is love to see this for every team in the NFL & do a comparison. I'm sure Alex Smith is somewhere similar to Tyrod on the Chiefs where as Brady, Brees, & Rodgers are far superior to anyone else on their teams.

I was thinking about it and most of the top guys are somewhere in the team's top 5. A lot depends on the team too. You can make a case that Ryan is closer to 5 on his team but you could never make that case with Brees, and Rivers for example. Ryan's team played in the Super Bowl while the Saints and Chargers struggled. I'd think that on a good team the QB should be in that range. Eli is another good example to me. He is pretty good but plays with a lot of great players. He may be closer to 8 than to 1 but if you put him on the 49ers he'd be top 3 at worst.

[Original Byrd Man]

When healthy Sammy #1, a close second Marcel, then Shady, Richy, Cordy, Kyle, Tyrod.

[C.Biscuit97]

I was thinking about it and most of the top guys are somewhere in the team's top 5. A lot depends on the team too. You can make a case that Ryan is closer to 5 on his team but you could never make that case with Brees, and Rivers for example. Ryan's team played in the Super Bowl while the Saints and Chargers struggled. I'd think that on a good team the QB should be in that range. Eli is another good example to me. He is pretty good but plays with a lot of great players. He may be closer to 8 than to 1 but if you put him on the 49ers he'd be top 3 at worst.

Well said. Obviously the weight of the position would evelate them overall.

 

I truly believe the Bills have done a good job of making the qb position not as pressing as it is on all teams. I think we talked about it during that training camp "battle" that we were ok with almost any qb because they weren't relying on their qbs to win them games.

 

My thoughts on Tyrod have been well documented. But I want to see once and for all, in an offense that demands more out of him, if he is a type of qb that can elevate this team.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2nd ? 31st ranked passing attack makes you 2nd ?

 

Are you hiring ? What's Trevor Simien's rank ?

 

Well many of the guys i might rank above him had either injury plagued years (hughes, watkins, aaron williams, ragland, shaq, clay), or off years (kyle, whatever dareus year was, gilmore, darby).

 

He took care of the ball, had some very good games (obviously some stinkers, or games where he didn't jump off the stat sheet). Stole quite a few first downs with his legs. Added some TDs on the ground. Led a very good red zone attack.

 

I tend to value a QBs contributions more than a Left Guards, but you can't say Woods/the rest of the receivers were particularly good. The running game was pretty much the sole thing that this team did well last year, and I put McCoy at the top for that, but adding an option role and almost 600 yards from the QB is something.

 

We had a bottom of the barrel rush defense so i'm reluctant to anoint a front 7 player. We didn't get a ton of turnovers, we got shredded by many mediocre QBs last year. I honestly thought we'd lose to the rams we were getting shredded by Case Keenum.

 

I guess 3rd then? Maybe behind Zo? He had a really good year.

 

No of course. I think PFF is flawed too it is one tool.... there are plenty of others. I just struggle to see a metric by which I'd put Tyrod as our 2nd best player last season. Even their assessment - which you are absolutely right values QBs who don't throw picks so probably inflates Tyrod - has him as the 4th best on our team and 3 other players within 0.3 points of him. I just use it to add some colour to this discussion.

 

To my mind our best 6 players are inarguable and I could take an argument for Tyrod as the 7th best..... or the 8th best or the 9th best....

 

Well the teams with the highest turnover diff were mostly playoff teams, so there should be a relatively high valuation on taking care of the football. 3rd in giveaways, tied for 23rd in takeaways.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake

Edited July 21, 2017 by dneveu

[Kirby Jackson]

Well said. Obviously the weight of the position would evelate them overall.

 

I truly believe the Bills have done a good job of making the qb position not as pressing as it is on all teams. I think we talked about it during that training camp "battle" that we were ok with almost any qb because they weren't relying on their qbs to win them games.

 

My thoughts on Tyrod have been well documented. But I want to see once and for all, in an offense that demands more out of him, if he is a type of qb that can elevate this team.

It should be interesting. There are flashes and signs that maybe he can move closer to 5 but then there's times where you throw your hands up and think about starting over. This year, with Dennison, should tell the story imo. I don't think that we will be sitting here, in February, debating what to do at the position. Either Tyrod has solidified it or 1 (or both) of the first rounders will be used on the next starting QB of the Bills. In some ways we are in a decent spot in terms of QB. Edited July 21, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

 

Well many of the guys i might rank above him had either injury plagued years (hughes, watkins, aaron williams, ragland, shaq, clay), or off years (kyle, whatever dareus year was, gilmore, darby).

 

He took care of the ball, had some very good games (obviously some stinkers, or games where he didn't jump off the stat sheet). Stole quite a few first downs with his legs. Added some TDs on the ground. Led a very good red zone attack.

 

I tend to value a QBs contributions more than a Left Guards, but you can't say Woods/the rest of the receivers were particularly good. The running game was pretty much the sole thing that this team did well last year, and I put McCoy at the top for that, but adding an option role and almost 600 yards from the QB is something.

 

We had a bottom of the barrel rush defense so i'm reluctant to anoint a front 7 player. We didn't get a ton of turnovers, we got shredded by many mediocre QBs last year. I honestly thought we'd lose to the rams we were getting shredded by Case Keenum.

 

I guess 3rd then? Maybe behind Zo? He had a really good year.

 

Well the teams with the highest turnover diff were mostly playoff teams, so there should be a relatively high valuation on taking care of the football.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake

 

If you'd said second best skill position player (and I include DBs in that) I'd have agreed with you. But to say he had a better year than Incognitio and Kyle and in my view Cordy (even though I accept he was hobbled for part of the year) is just wrong in my opinion.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I get the purpose of PFF but it is extremely flawed. For instance, without noting play calls and assignments on plays, it's really hard to determine fault.

 

Also, Tyrod benefits greatly in all stat categories because of his lack of int. But this doesn't take into account open WRs missed or not thrown to for fear of a turnover. I think Favre would look a lot worse in PFF ratings than the HOF qb he is.

 

I think Favre is a bit overrated... And I'm a big fan of his. He is like the opposite of Tyrod taylor, but in many ways the same. You'll see some highlight reel plays, and you'll see some what the hell is he thinking plays. Favre's are picks, tyrods are i dunno ghost pressure and holding the ball.

 

If you'd said second best skill position player (and I include DBs in that) I'd have agreed with you. But to say he had a better year than Incognitio and Kyle and in my view Cordy (even though I accept he was hobbled for part of the year) is just wrong in my opinion.

 

Yeah, thats a fair assessment. I always tend to look at Oline as a unit, because its not always what a single player does... sometimes a communication breakdown can make a player look like they missed, when they in actuality were in the right place and someone else may have missed a check or something. Hard to judge.

 

Kyle is fair though, he wasn't usually the one missing tackles. Zach Brown in the first half sure, but he was not very good in the 2nd half of the year.

Solid list. I'd put Clay ahead of Tyrod because I think his numbers are direct result of Tyrod's deficiencies. I also think Wood is a good C and would be tempted to put him ahead of TT as well, though I'm not banging the table on that.

 

It's an interesting question Kirby. I don't have the time b it is love to see this for every team in the NFL & do a comparison. I'm sure Alex Smith is somewhere similar to Tyrod on the Chiefs where as Brady, Brees, & Rodgers are far superior to anyone else on their teams.

 

Want to like Clay, but I remember some drops, and some lazy route running. Good blocker though so he is definitely valuable. I think the media hates him because his paycheck doesn't justify his numbers, but you don't really have a good blocking stat.

[Maury Ballstein]

Farve and the 2016 Bills = 11-5 or better team.

 

He would have eaten defenses souls with Shady and TD Mike setting the table imo.

 

We have diff taste in qb's. I love Farve

Edited July 21, 2017 by Maury Ballstein

[C.Biscuit97]

 

I think Favre is a bit overrated... And I'm a big fan of his. He is like the opposite of Tyrod taylor, but in many ways the same. You'll see some highlight reel plays, and you'll see some what the hell is he thinking plays. Favre's are picks, tyrods are i dunno ghost pressure and holding the ball.

 

 

Yeah, thats a fair assessment. I always tend to look at Oline as a unit, because its not always what a single player does... sometimes a communication breakdown can make a player look like they missed, when they in actuality were in the right place and someone else may have missed a check or something. Hard to judge.

 

Kyle is fair though, he wasn't usually the one missing tackles. Zach Brown in the first half sure, but he was not very good in the 2nd half of the year.

 

 

Want to like Clay, but I remember some drops, and some lazy route running. Good blocker though so he is definitely valuable. I think the media hates him because his paycheck doesn't justify his numbers, but you don't really have a good blocking stat.

Favre might be slightly overrated but he is a top 20 qb of all time. There's very little that's similar to him and Tyrod. Tyrod is Alex Smith with a stronger arm and less touch.

[4_kidd_4]

He's got 'best dressed' on lock.