marck Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I have read about where the poor Buffalso Bills are going to be if and when Jonas Jennings and Pat Williams leave. My point is simple, just because a player leaves the team, the team is not going to go to hell in a hand-basket. Lets look at the situation from a football context: Jonas Jennings - Is he worth a $15 Million Dollar contract? If you think so you can't be serious. He is injured constantly, gets beat by every speed rusher in a division filled with them and wants to be paid. Well if the Jets want to pay stupid money to sign him, great for them, maybe this way we can watch Aaron Schoebel run around Jonas like John Abraham did. My feeling is good ridance Mr. Jennings. Pat Williams - Pat is at the stage of his career where he wants a top performance contract for a set of diminishing skills. Pat has been a wonderful player who I would love to see come back, but not at the cost of dragging the team into salary cap hell in two years when the Bills have the bulk of their defensive core up for free agency. Some desperate team such as the Vikings will over pay to get Pat and he may very well take the offer. If he does then Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson will do just fiine as a replacement in the middle of the defensive line. So cheer up Bills fans, we will survive the loss of these players and move ahead. Lets wish both of them well as they move on to bigger and better paydays and lets as fans focus on players who want to be members of the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Good post. I went with everything except the "Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson will fill in fine." You lost me there. That's not a given...it's speculation. But if nothing else, I agree...losing both of them will not be the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Comparing Aaron Schobel to John Abraham???? Anyways, I disagree. Football is a game won and lost in the trenches. We are losing two experienced veterans and while it may not be the same as losing "superstar" caliber players it is significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Jonas Jennings - Is he worth a $15 Million Dollar contract? If you think so you can't be serious. He is injured constantly, gets beat by every speed rusher in a division filled with them and wants to be paid. 258467[/snapback] I thought JJ usually did a good job against Jason Taylor... but I agree, he's not worth the $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marck Posted March 2, 2005 Author Share Posted March 2, 2005 I understand your point, but is the solution overpaying for talent just because they are familiar to you. Replacements will be found and plugged in to meet the needs at the price the Bills can afford to pay. As far as your point about Abraham vs Schoebel, look at the yearly statistics: Player: Experience Games Played Career Tackles Sacks Passes Defensed Schoebel 4 years 64 227 34.5 9 Abraham 5 yaers 57 220 43.0 4 Please tell me again how great John Abraham is in comparision to Aaron Schoebel. Plus Schoebel has never missed a game in his career and Abraham is always hurt or sick or has some ailement bothering him, so when you get away from the "name value" and look at the core statistics, I believe you might want to reconsider your opinion. Comparing Aaron Schobel to John Abraham???? Anyways, I disagree. Football is a game won and lost in the trenches. We are losing two experienced veterans and while it may not be the same as losing "superstar" caliber players it is significant. 258476[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marck Posted March 2, 2005 Author Share Posted March 2, 2005 Bump I have read about where the poor Buffalso Bills are going to be if and when Jonas Jennings and Pat Williams leave. My point is simple, just because a player leaves the team, the team is not going to go to hell in a hand-basket. Lets look at the situation from a football context: Jonas Jennings - Is he worth a $15 Million Dollar contract? If you think so you can't be serious. He is injured constantly, gets beat by every speed rusher in a division filled with them and wants to be paid. Well if the Jets want to pay stupid money to sign him, great for them, maybe this way we can watch Aaron Schoebel run around Jonas like John Abraham did. My feeling is good ridance Mr. Jennings. Pat Williams - Pat is at the stage of his career where he wants a top performance contract for a set of diminishing skills. Pat has been a wonderful player who I would love to see come back, but not at the cost of dragging the team into salary cap hell in two years when the Bills have the bulk of their defensive core up for free agency. Some desperate team such as the Vikings will over pay to get Pat and he may very well take the offer. If he does then Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson will do just fiine as a replacement in the middle of the defensive line. So cheer up Bills fans, we will survive the loss of these players and move ahead. Lets wish both of them well as they move on to bigger and better paydays and lets as fans focus on players who want to be members of the Buffalo Bills. 258467[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Playfair Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 with only 6.8 left under our cap (according to clump) we couldnt have signed jj and pat. unless mike williams restructures, we are limited in what we can do in FA. With all of our pending FA on D next year (2006), i'm a bit concerned about our ability to replace starters next year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawnboy1977 Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I have read about where the poor Buffalso Bills are going to be if and when Jonas Jennings and Pat Williams leave. My point is simple, just because a player leaves the team, the team is not going to go to hell in a hand-basket. Lets look at the situation from a football context: Jonas Jennings - Is he worth a $15 Million Dollar contract? If you think so you can't be serious. He is injured constantly, gets beat by every speed rusher in a division filled with them and wants to be paid. Well if the Jets want to pay stupid money to sign him, great for them, maybe this way we can watch Aaron Schoebel run around Jonas like John Abraham did. My feeling is good ridance Mr. Jennings. Pat Williams - Pat is at the stage of his career where he wants a top performance contract for a set of diminishing skills. Pat has been a wonderful player who I would love to see come back, but not at the cost of dragging the team into salary cap hell in two years when the Bills have the bulk of their defensive core up for free agency. Some desperate team such as the Vikings will over pay to get Pat and he may very well take the offer. If he does then Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson will do just fiine as a replacement in the middle of the defensive line. So cheer up Bills fans, we will survive the loss of these players and move ahead. Lets wish both of them well as they move on to bigger and better paydays and lets as fans focus on players who want to be members of the Buffalo Bills. 258467[/snapback] I was just coming on here to make a post such as that. I have no problem letting Jennings go, because like you said he's not worth overpaying for. There will be a suitable replacement out there. Whether it be Shelton or some other FA OT. As far as Williams, I think he deserves his chance to strike it rich in FA. Granted he has been a Bill for his whole career, and I would love to see him back here. Plus the fact that the money he is asking for is just ridiculous, makes him impossible to resign. There was a reason we drafted Anderson and have kept Ron Edwards on the team. Plus there is always a way to get some depth player in FA or the draft. Consider the fact that for the second straight year, 10 of 11 starters will be returning on defense, and I think we'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I understand your point, but is the solution overpaying for talent just because they are familiar to you. Replacements will be found and plugged in to meet the needs at the price the Bills can afford to pay. As far as your point about Abraham vs Schoebel, look at the yearly statistics: Player: Experience Games Played Career Tackles Sacks Passes Defensed Schoebel 4 years 64 227 34.5 9 Abraham 5 yaers 57 220 43.0 4 Please tell me again how great John Abraham is in comparision to Aaron Schoebel. Plus Schoebel has never missed a game in his career and Abraham is always hurt or sick or has some ailement bothering him, so when you get away from the "name value" and look at the core statistics, I believe you might want to reconsider your opinion. 258496[/snapback] I don't want to reconsider my opinion. Over a 16 game season Abe averages almost 12 sacks per year, Schobel 8. Forced Fumbles? Abe has cause 5 more in basically a half season less of playing time. Yes, he's been injured the last two years. But, even with the injuries he's been able to compile better numbers. He had 1.5 more sacks in four less games than Aaron in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marck Posted March 2, 2005 Author Share Posted March 2, 2005 You are welcome to your opinion but Abraham is the classic "me" guy. If he had any character he would have played in the playoffs last year. Also, if you remember he missed the Jet-Raider playoff game a couple of years ago with an upset stomach. I am pleased the Jets franchised that piece of sh-- and wasted 6.3 Million of their salary cap for a guy who won't play when he has an ingrown toenail or a bruise. In fact, if Jonas does sign with the Jets, Abrahame may lead the practice field in sacks for a season based on the piss=poor effort Jenning had against him in the game at the Jets last year. In that way you can have two selfish shitplies making over 12 million a year to stare out in practice and then watch them sit together on the sidelines as they are injured with some minor injury. As far as statistics are concerned, its not what you do while your in the game, it what the team does. A player with great stats who dosen't play generates no useful statistics, hopefully someday you may figure this out. I don't want to reconsider my opinion. Over a 16 game season Abe averages almost 12 sacks per year, Schobel 8. Forced Fumbles? Abe has cause 5 more in basically a half season less of playing time. Yes, he's been injured the last two years. But, even with the injuries he's been able to compile better numbers. He had 1.5 more sacks in four less games than Aaron in 2004. 258590[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 3 of Schobel's sacks this year came in one game against that stellar Miami o-line. I just can't get over how overrated he is. He does one move then tries to go outside, the few times he actually came on an inside ruch I saw him have success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 You are welcome to your opinion but Abraham is the classic "me" guy. If he had any character he would have played in the playoffs last year. Also, if you remember he missed the Jet-Raider playoff game a couple of years ago with an upset stomach. I am pleased the Jets franchised that piece of sh-- and wasted 6.3 Million of their salary cap for a guy who won't play when he has an ingrown toenail or a bruise. In fact, if Jonas does sign with the Jets, Abrahame may lead the practice field in sacks for a season based on the piss=poor effort Jenning had against him in the game at the Jets last year. In that way you can have two selfish shitplies making over 12 million a year to stare out in practice and then watch them sit together on the sidelines as they are injured with some minor injury. As far as statistics are concerned, its not what you do while your in the game, it what the team does. A player with great stats who dosen't play generates no useful statistics, hopefully someday you may figure this out. 258698[/snapback] Figure out what? That Abe is better than Schobel? It's true. The funny part is YOU brought up the statistics. I merely pointed out that the statistics actually favor Abe. And until we actually make the playoffs it's going to be hard for me to put down the job the Jets are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Teams gameplan for John Abraham. They might nod in the general direction of A.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Given the way our O-line has played, why would we worry about losing any of them? Our line men are average at best. If anything, they should be happy to keep their jobs - let alone wanting a pay raise. And top dollar money? Absolutely no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I don't want to reconsider my opinion. Over a 16 game season Abe averages almost 12 sacks per year, Schobel 8. Forced Fumbles? Abe has cause 5 more in basically a half season less of playing time. Yes, he's been injured the last two years. But, even with the injuries he's been able to compile better numbers. He had 1.5 more sacks in four less games than Aaron in 2004. 258590[/snapback] Eveyone always forgets who the supporting cast are ? Schoebel had no one rushing from the other side until Kelsay has shown some spark late in the season. Whereas Abraham has the luxury of playing on one of the best DLs in footbal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I have read about where the poor Buffalso Bills are going to be if and when Jonas Jennings and Pat Williams leave. My point is simple, just because a player leaves the team, the team is not going to go to hell in a hand-basket. Lets look at the situation from a football context: Jonas Jennings - Is he worth a $15 Million Dollar contract? If you think so you can't be serious. He is injured constantly, gets beat by every speed rusher in a division filled with them and wants to be paid. Well if the Jets want to pay stupid money to sign him, great for them, maybe this way we can watch Aaron Schoebel run around Jonas like John Abraham did. My feeling is good ridance Mr. Jennings. Pat Williams - Pat is at the stage of his career where he wants a top performance contract for a set of diminishing skills. Pat has been a wonderful player who I would love to see come back, but not at the cost of dragging the team into salary cap hell in two years when the Bills have the bulk of their defensive core up for free agency. Some desperate team such as the Vikings will over pay to get Pat and he may very well take the offer. If he does then Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson will do just fiine as a replacement in the middle of the defensive line. So cheer up Bills fans, we will survive the loss of these players and move ahead. Lets wish both of them well as they move on to bigger and better paydays and lets as fans focus on players who want to be members of the Buffalo Bills. 258467[/snapback] Jennings was our best O-lineman? Maybe, maybe not. We need to rebuild the line anyway, again, or still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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