GG Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 He is any GM. That what they all are right up until they find a franchise QB And Doug is a .500 gm that has yet to pick his coach And it's been repeated ad nauseam, his track record of finding that qb is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) And it's been repeated ad nauseam, his track record of finding that qb is lacking.Tyrod Taylor. Mamy orher GMs have taking years to find one MANY years. One of the best GMs in the league took over 5 years calling the shot to find one. The great BB swings and misses at the position OFTEN So again he is like EVERY GM in the league Edited January 2, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) Tyrod Taylor. Mamy orher GMs have taking years to find one MANY years. One of the best GMs in the league took over 5 years calling the shot to find one. The great BB swings and misses at the position OFTEN So again he is like EVERY GM in the league https://mobile.twitter.com/BrokawInc/status/464751916032221184/photo/1 Hoyer Manziel McCown RG III Whitehurst Kessler Hogan Edited January 2, 2017 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 NFL Football... "It's a violent game that I personally don't think humans are supposed to play."[/size] 2013, Colin Brown was an Andy Levitre replacement that lasted around 4 games before being benched and released because he was so bad. Sam Young was another wasted roster spot as he came in the game for Brown on a couple of series and allowed a sack and hits so he also was benched and released after 4 games. [/size] That year Whaley signed Doug Legursky to be the backup center and because all the other OG backup players were so bad... Legursky became the starting LG for most of the season and needless to say this guy was the worst graded player on the Bills line and didn't return for another year. The Bills were exceedingly lucky that Legursky lasted an entire season because the rest of the backups that year were right off the street. [/size] 2014, Signing OG [/size]Chris Williams for 5 [/size]mill guaranteed to see him play only three games before being released by the team because of a back injury! [/size] Kraig Urbik moved to LG and Erik Pears played RG in 2014. Glenn, Urbik, Wood, Pears, Henderson was ranked as the very worst offensive line in the NFL for most of that season! This with basically three rookie QB's on the roster! [/size] 2015, Rex Ryan vouches for OG Richie Incognito and the Bills sign him to see a talent that elevates the play of the two players on either side of him. So, after two years the Bills finally replace Levitre with a quality player at LG. It was also Rex Ryan that wanted Tyrod Taylor in Buffalo.[/size] The bottom line was that Whaley allowed the team to go into the 2013 season with EJ, Lewis and Tuel and no veteran QB on the roster and no QB coach on the team. The only person these young QB's had to learn the NFL ropes from was Nathaniel Hackett who was an NFL rookie OC himself. [/size] After drafting Sammy Watkins, Whaley decides to trade for WR Mike Williams ( for a 6th)and trade away WR Stevie Johnson (for a 4th) because while Johnson didn't always run precise routes he was usually always open. Kyle Orton could have really used a WR that was always open. Sammy in his first season battling injuries all year long was used a lot as a decoy. [/size] WR Mike Williams contribution to the team, 8 rec for 142 yards, 1 TD.[/size] In 2014 the Bills traded for RB Bryce Brown for a 4th round pick. Browns contribution to the team 2 game starts 36 rushes for 126 yards, 16 receptions for 116 yards. [/size] The trade for Jerry Hughes was initiated by the Colts GM who wanted the last first round pick of Bill Polian off the team and Whaley was just incredibly lucky that the Colts called him. Wanna talk incredibly lucky? How about that Whaley offered CJ Spiller a decent offer to stay in Buffalo and like the fool that he is Spiller instead went to New Orleans... thank the good lord! Wanna talk more good luck? Eagles HC Chip Kelly offering to trade LeSean McCoy to Buffalo in the first place. This worked out great because the team has such difficulty in finding star RB talent in the draft. Skipping a lot of other things. [/size] The Watkins trade in dealing away three draft picks, two number ones for a WR when the team still didn't have it's franchise QB! [/size] If Whaley or his scouts actually knew what they were looking at in regards to college talent the Bills could have stayed at the #9 pick in 2014 and drafted all-pro LBer Anthony Barr, all-pro OT Taylor Lewan, all-pro WR Odel Beckham Jr, all-pro DT Aaron Donald, all-pro OG Zack Martin, all-pro LBer CJ Mosley, all-pro S Haha Clinton-Dix, all-pro CB Jason Verrett and then traded up in the second round for all-pro QB Derek Carr.[/size] After the last four seasons of such ineptitude, I have no idea how or why the guy still has a job as an NFL GM. [/size] Although, EJ certainly has been happy that Doug Whaley has kept his job all this time. [/size] Hey man, this was a great post and sadly, every word is true. The premise of Whaley being anything less than awful is weak indeed. It's a shame what little we Bills Fans have to cling to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpoolkev Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I understand your point, but wanted to chime in for those that don't: while Whaley did not draft any of the players that you listed, Kelsay, Schoebel and Whitner were all very good, not great players. I never understood why Chris Kelsay and Aaron Schoebel took so much heat from fans. The thing that made people unfairly hate on Whitner was that they passed on Haloti Ngata to take Whitner - dumb move, but not Whitner's fault. That was the problem you actually thought they were good thus giving buddy nix . john butler marv levy a pass.... Whaley taking unnecessary heat for nothing as far as I'm concern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Tyrod Taylor. Mamy orher GMs have taking years to find one MANY years. One of the best GMs in the league took over 5 years calling the shot to find one. The great BB swings and misses at the position OFTEN So again he is like EVERY GM in the league Haven't you spent 17 weeks arguing TT sucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Hey man, this was a great post and sadly, every word is true. The premise of Whaley being anything less than awful is weak indeed. It's a shame what little we Bills Fans have to cling to. Diminishing his good moves to supprt narrative is weak Haven't you spent 17 weeks arguing TT sucks? Actually not good enough but different than sucks. And yet the same COT members will kill whaley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 just look at his draft picks since he officially became GM. how many are still on the roster? the Bills are WORST IN THE LEAGUE at having their draft picks on the roster - 22%. Playoff level teams have ~ 60% of their draft picks on the active roster. He is not a very capable GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 just look at his draft picks since he officially became GM. how many are still on the roster? the Bills are WORST IN THE LEAGUE at having their draft picks on the roster - 22%. Playoff level teams have ~ 60% of their draft picks on the active roster. He is not a very capable GM. Ahhhh a BN statement. Try it again and run your numbers again. Wait i get it putting bad past GMs on whaley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Diminishing his good moves to supprt narrative is weak Actually not good enough but different than sucks. And yet the same COT members will kill whaley So TT is not good enough but praise him for TT? Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 So TT is not good enough but praise him for TT? Huh? In my mind he is not good enough for what i want as a QB. Again the same people that love TT bash Whaley for QB. Hmmmm cant have it both ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Tyrod Taylor. Mamy orher GMs have taking years to find one MANY years. One of the best GMs in the league took over 5 years calling the shot to find one. The great BB swings and misses at the position OFTEN So again he is like EVERY GM in the league Again, would Bills sign Taylor ahead of Denver if not for Rex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) just look at his draft picks since he officially became GM. how many are still on the roster? the Bills are WORST IN THE LEAGUE at having their draft picks on the roster - 22%. Playoff level teams have ~ 60% of their draft picks on the active roster. He is not a very capable GM. I posted this elsewhere...Here's a list of our draft picks since Whaley was named GM in May of 2013. In bold are guys on the current 53 man roster, Italics are guys still part of team whether it be on IR or PS etc. Shaq Lawson Reggie Ragland Adolphus Washington Cardale Jones Jonathan Williams Kolby Listenbee Kevon Seymour Ronald Darby John Miller Karlos Williams Tony Steward Nick O'Leary Dezmin Lewis Sammy Watkins Cyrus Kouandjio Preston Brown Ross Cockrell Cyril Richardson Randell Johnson Seantrel Henderson 15/20 = 75% Let's compare that to another GM who earned his position in 2013, Steve Keim of the Arizona Cardinals. Of note he was named GM 5 months before Whaley and named Executive of the Year in 2013 but again only going to compare draft classes since 2014 and who remains on their roster for this comparison. Robert Nkemdiche Brandon Williams Evan Boehm Marqui Christian Cole Toner Harlan Miller D.J. Humphries Markus Golden David Johnson Rodney Gunter Shaquille Riddick J.J. Nelson Gerald Christian Deone Bucannon Troy Niklas Kareem Martin John Brown Logan Thomas Ed Stinson Walt Powell 15/20 = 75% and what about the Green Bay Packers who are well known as a team that builds within? Kenny Clark Jason Spriggs Kyler Fackrell Blake Martinez Deon Lowry Trevor Davis Kyle Murphy Damarious Randall Quinten Rollins Ty Montgomery Jake Ryan Brett Hundley Aaron Ripkowski Christian Ringo Kennard Backman Ha Ha Clinton-Dix Davante Adams Khyri Thornton Richard Rodgers Carl Bradford Corey Linsley Jared Abbrederis Demetri Goodson Jeff Janis 18/24= 75% how about another middling team like the Philly Eagles then? Carson Wentz Isaac Seumalo Wendell Smallwood Halapoulivaati Vaitai Blake Countess Jalen Mills Alex McCalister Joe Walker Nelson Agholor Eric Rowe Jordan Hicks JaCorey Shepherd Randall Evans Marcus Smith Jordan Matthews Josh Huff Jaylen Watkins Taylor Hart Ed Reynolds Beau Allen 13/20 = 65% and lastly one of the top 3 GMs in recent memory; John Schneider and the Seattle Seahawks Germain Ifedi Jarran Reed C.J. Prosise Nick Vannett Rees Odhiambo Quinton Jefferson Alex Collins Joey Hunt Zac Brooks Frank Clark Tyler Lockett Terry Poole Mark Glowinski Tye Smith Obum Gwachum Kristjan Sokoli Ryan Murphy Paul Richardson Justin Britt Cassius Marsh Kevin Norwood Kevin Pierre-Louis Garrett Scott Eric Pinkins Kiero Small 14/25= 56% Is Whaley really doing that bad at drafting when compare him to his counterparts? Edited January 2, 2017 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 In my mind he is not good enough for what i want as a QB. Again the same people that love TT bash Whaley for QB. Hmmmm cant have it both ways Let's see the proof. Show me which posters bash Whaley for not finding a QB and praise TT endlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Again, would Bills sign Taylor ahead of Denver if not for Rex? Who signed him. Jesus people Want to pin EJ on him, but wont give credit for Hughes Want to scream Byrce Brown for a 4th, wont give him credit for Shady (also essentially part of EJ) Want to put Shaq on him, no credit for the good moves that was Rex Now tell me again there isnt a narrative being pushed I posted this elsewhere...Here's a list of our draft picks since Whaley was named GM in May of 2013. In bold are guys on the current 53 man roster, Italics are guys still part of team whether it be on IR or PS etc. Shaq Lawson Reggie Ragland Adolphus Washington Cardale Jones Jonathan Williams Kolby Listenbee Kevon Seymour Ronald Darby John Miller Karlos Williams Tony Steward Nick O'Leary Dezmin Lewis Sammy Watkins Cyrus Kouandjio Preston Brown Ross Cockrell Cyril Richardson Randell Johnson Seantrel Henderson 15/20 = 75% Let's compare that to another GM who earned his position in 2013, Steve Keim of the Arizona Cardinals. Of note he was named GM in 5 months before Whaley and named Executive of the Year in 2013 but again only going to compare draft classes since 2014 and who remains on their roster for this comparison. Robert Nkemdiche Brandon Williams Evan Boehm Marqui Christian Cole Toner Harlan Miller D.J. Humphries Markus Golden David Johnson Rodney Gunter Shaquille Riddick J.J. Nelson Gerald Christian Deone Bucannon Troy Niklas Kareem Martin John Brown Logan Thomas Ed Stinson Walt Powell 15/20 = 75% and what about the Green Bay Packers who are well known as a team that builds within? Kenny Clark Jason Spriggs Kyler Fackrell Blake Martinez Deon Lowry Trevor Davis Kyle Murphy Damarious Randall Quinten Rollins Ty Montgomery Jake Ryan Brett Hundley Aaron Ripkowski Christian Ringo Kennard Backman Ha Ha Clinton-Dix Davante Adams Khyri Thornton Richard Rodgers Carl Bradford Corey Linsley Jared Abbrederis Demetri Goodson Jeff Janis 18/24= 75% how about another middling team like the Philly Eagles then? Carson Wentz Isaac Seumalo Wendell Smallwood Halapoulivaati Vaitai Blake Countess Jalen Mills Alex McCalister Joe Walker Nelson Agholor Eric Rowe Jordan Hicks JaCorey Shepherd Randall Evans Marcus Smith Jordan Matthews Josh Huff Jaylen Watkins Taylor Hart Ed Reynolds Beau Allen 13/20 = 65% and lastly one of the top 3 GMs in recent memory; John Schneider and the Seattle Seahawks Germain Ifedi Jarran Reed C.J. Prosise Nick Vannett Rees Odhiambo Quinton Jefferson Alex Collins Joey Hunt Zac Brooks Frank Clark Tyler Lockett Terry Poole Mark Glowinski Tye Smith Obum Gwachum Kristjan Sokoli Ryan Murphy Paul Richardson Justin Britt Cassius Marsh Kevin Norwood Kevin Pierre-Louis Garrett Scott Eric Pinkins Kiero Small 14/25= 56% Is Whaley really doing that bad at drafting when compare him to his counterparts? End thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
run dat back Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Sammy's pretty good when healthy? Not when he doesn't get the ball thrown to him! Trading up for him was a brutal move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 NFL Football... "It's a violent game that I personally don't think humans are supposed to play." 2013, Colin Brown was an Andy Levitre replacement that lasted around 4 games before being benched and released because he was so bad. Sam Young was another wasted roster spot as he came in the game for Brown on a couple of series and allowed a sack and hits so he also was benched and released after 4 games. That year Whaley signed Doug Legursky to be the backup center and because all the other OG backup players were so bad... Legursky became the starting LG for most of the season and needless to say this guy was the worst graded player on the Bills line and didn't return for another year. The Bills were exceedingly lucky that Legursky lasted an entire season because the rest of the backups that year were right off the street. 2014, Signing OG Chris Williams for 5 mill guaranteed to see him play only three games before being released by the team because of a back injury! Kraig Urbik moved to LG and Erik Pears played RG in 2014. Glenn, Urbik, Wood, Pears, Henderson was ranked as the very worst offensive line in the NFL for most of that season! This with basically three rookie QB's on the roster! 2015, Rex Ryan vouches for OG Richie Incognito and the Bills sign him to see a talent that elevates the play of the two players on either side of him. So, after two years the Bills finally replace Levitre with a quality player at LG. It was also Rex Ryan that wanted Tyrod Taylor in Buffalo. The bottom line was that Whaley allowed the team to go into the 2013 season with EJ, Lewis and Tuel and no veteran QB on the roster and no QB coach on the team. The only person these young QB's had to learn the NFL ropes from was Nathaniel Hackett who was an NFL rookie OC himself. After drafting Sammy Watkins, Whaley decides to trade for WR Mike Williams ( for a 6th)and trade away WR Stevie Johnson (for a 4th) because while Johnson didn't always run precise routes he was usually always open. Kyle Orton could have really used a WR that was always open. Sammy in his first season battling injuries all year long was used a lot as a decoy. WR Mike Williams contribution to the team, 8 rec for 142 yards, 1 TD. In 2014 the Bills traded for RB Bryce Brown for a 4th round pick. Browns contribution to the team 2 game starts 36 rushes for 126 yards, 16 receptions for 116 yards. The trade for Jerry Hughes was initiated by the Colts GM who wanted the last first round pick of Bill Polian off the team and Whaley was just incredibly lucky that the Colts called him. Wanna talk incredibly lucky? How about that Whaley offered CJ Spiller a decent offer to stay in Buffalo and like the fool that he is Spiller instead went to New Orleans... thank the good lord! Wanna talk more good luck? Eagles HC Chip Kelly offering to trade LeSean McCoy to Buffalo in the first place. This worked out great because the team has such difficulty in finding star RB talent in the draft. Skipping a lot of other things. The Watkins trade in dealing away three draft picks, two number ones for a WR when the team still didn't have it's franchise QB! If Whaley or his scouts actually knew what they were looking at in regards to college talent the Bills could have stayed at the #9 pick in 2014 and drafted all-pro LBer Anthony Barr, all-pro OT Taylor Lewan, all-pro WR Odel Beckham Jr, all-pro DT Aaron Donald, all-pro OG Zack Martin, all-pro LBer CJ Mosley, all-pro S Haha Clinton-Dix, all-pro CB Jason Verrett and then traded up in the second round for all-pro QB Derek Carr. After the last four seasons of such ineptitude, I have no idea how or why the guy still has a job as an NFL GM. Although, EJ certainly has been happy that Doug Whaley has kept his job all this time. There really isn't much left to say after this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Let's see the proof. Show me which posters bash Whaley for not finding a QB and praise TT endlessly. Sure look no further than The first page of this thread. And look up some of the the people flaming whaley on their defense of TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I posted this elsewhere... Shaq Lawson Reggie Ragland Adolphus Washington Cardale Jones Jonathan Williams Kolby Listenbee Kevon Seymour Ronald Darby John Miller Karlos Williams Tony Steward Nick O'Leary Dezmin Lewis Sammy Watkins Cyrus Kouandjio Preston Brown Ross Cockrell Cyril Richardson Randell Johnson Seantrel Henderson 15/20 = 75% Let's compare that to another GM who earned his position in 2013, Steve Keim of the Arizona Cardinals. Of note he was named GM in 5 months before Whaley and named Executive of the Year in 2013 but again only going to compare draft classes since 2014 and who remains on their roster for this comparison. Robert Nkemdiche Brandon Williams Evan Boehm Marqui Christian Cole Toner Harlan Miller D.J. Humphries Markus Golden David Johnson Rodney Gunter Shaquille Riddick J.J. Nelson Gerald Christian Deone Bucannon Troy Niklas Kareem Martin John Brown Logan Thomas Ed Stinson Walt Powell 15/20 = 75% and what about the Green Bay Packers who are well known as a team that builds within? Kenny Clark Jason Spriggs Kyler Fackrell Blake Martinez Deon Lowry Trevor Davis Kyle Murphy Damarious Randall Quinten Rollins Ty Montgomery Jake Ryan Brett Hundley Aaron Ripkowski Christian Ringo Kennard Backman Ha Ha Clinton-Dix Davante Adams Khyri Thornton Richard Rodgers Carl Bradford Corey Linsley Jared Abbrederis Demetri Goodson Jeff Janis 18/24= 75% how about another middling team like the Philly Eagles then? Carson Wentz Isaac Seumalo Wendell Smallwood Halapoulivaati Vaitai Blake Countess Jalen Mills Alex McCalister Joe Walker Nelson Agholor Eric Rowe Jordan Hicks JaCorey Shepherd Randall Evans Marcus Smith Jordan Matthews Josh Huff Jaylen Watkins Taylor Hart Ed Reynolds Beau Allen 13/20 = 65% and lastly one of the top 3 GMs in recent memory; John Schneider and the Seattle Seahawks Germain Ifedi Jarran Reed C.J. Prosise Nick Vannett Rees Odhiambo Quinton Jefferson Alex Collins Joey Hunt Zac Brooks Frank Clark Tyler Lockett Terry Poole Mark Glowinski Tye Smith Obum Gwachum Kristjan Sokoli Ryan Murphy Paul Richardson Justin Britt Cassius Marsh Kevin Norwood Kevin Pierre-Louis Garrett Scott Eric Pinkins Kiero Small 14/25= 56% Is Whaley really doing that bad at drafting when compare him to his counterparts? not bad but my premise is that Rex drove last year's draft. I don't have a way to prove it but he is a very will full hands on roster coach and i love that draft. miller might develop, darby is a horrible first pick, o'leary is ST / third string player and the jury is out on cardale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 On paper, I like Whaley's picks and FA pickups more often than not. But at some point, they need to produce results on the field. He gets one more year, before I start bitching about a replacement. Playoffs or bust next year. And yes, that means our next HC needs to make the playoffs next year as well. There's no excuse, we have a good offense, all we need is a slightly better defense. No playoffs next year means blow it all up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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