Greg Salas = the new 7-11?

[Doc]

 

LOL--people still do the extrapolation thing?

 

Anyway, if you are going to do imaginary stats, at least do them right: he played in 2 games and had 3 catches. That "prorates" to 24 over the course of the season.

Hogan played in 612 offensive snaps to Salas' 59. So it's more like 31 catches for 425 yards. Sounds familiar.

[Big C]

 

Seems like he's already been anointed this year's camp wonder!

 

Think that might be Walter Powell. Salas is this year's Rambo maybe. The guy we signed late in the season who made a few critical plays in one game and now has high expectations.

[Big Turk]

He's always open! Seems to have better hands though.

He reminds me of a quicker And slightly smaller David Nelson...same sure hands, same good routes, just a knack for knowing where the defenders won't be and how to find creases...

[GG]

 

LOL--people still do the extrapolation thing?

 

Anyway, if you are going to do imaginary stats, at least do them right: he played in 2 games and had 3 catches. That "prorates" to 24 over the course of the season.

 

He hardly played in the Dallas game, but was a clear #3 vs Jets, and got 3 critical first downs. So yeah, carry on with your narrative

[Astrobot]

I think Powell is this year's Deonte Thompson. Impressive camp, some kick returns.

Deonte had a 2 reception year for the Bears, but got 81 yards out of those two.

 

Salas is my favorite between him, Little, and Hankerson. Listenbee and/or Goodwin would keep the other two off the 53.

[Ronin]

Everyone's down on Hogan, but in case no one noticed, and apparently no one has, he's already shaping up to be Brady's favorite target and has been praised for his hands and just about everything else. If anyone in the media here were talking about one of our WRs like that everyone here would be talking about how we don't even need Sammy until he gets healthy, which who knows when if ever that will even be.

 

http://nesn.com/2016/08/chris-hogan-already-gelling-with-tom-brady-in-patriots-training-camp/

 

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2016/08/tom_brady_jimmy_garoppolo_patr_1.html

 

WR Chris Hogan (blue): Really impressive hands. That's what stood out most. Hogan held onto one ball that must have nicked a few blades of grass. Brady and Hogan looked to be in sync the entire scrimmage, as if they had been playing together for five years.

Hogan's precise route running was on display on a fade to the corner of the endzone, a perfect pitch-and-catch between Brady and his new receiver.

This was Hogan's first day back since he injured his shoulder on Saturday. He practiced in a red non-contact jersey.

 

Hogan was better than most people want to admit, Roman's stubborness and lack of creativity couldn't utilize him. Neither Brady nor Garropolo seem to be having any difficulty.

Edited August 6, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[YoloinOhio]

I think Powell is this year's Deonte Thompson. Impressive camp, some kick returns.

Deonte had a 2 reception year for the Bears, but got 81 yards out of those two.

 

Salas is my favorite between him, Little, and Hankerson. Listenbee and/or Goodwin would keep the other two off the 53.

clock is ticking on listenbee - he still hasn't been cleared to practice. Guessing PUP list for him to start season.

[Doc]

Everyone's down on Hogan, but in case no one noticed, and apparently no one has, he's already shaping up to be Brady's favorite target and has been praised for his hands and just about everything else. If anyone in the media here were talking about one of our WRs like that everyone here would be talking about how we don't even need Sammy until he gets healthy, which who knows when if ever that will even be.

 

http://nesn.com/2016/08/chris-hogan-already-gelling-with-tom-brady-in-patriots-training-camp/

 

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2016/08/tom_brady_jimmy_garoppolo_patr_1.html

 

WR Chris Hogan (blue): Really impressive hands. That's what stood out most. Hogan held onto one ball that must have nicked a few blades of grass. Brady and Hogan looked to be in sync the entire scrimmage, as if they had been playing together for five years.

Hogan's precise route running was on display on a fade to the corner of the endzone, a perfect pitch-and-catch between Brady and his new receiver.

This was Hogan's first day back since he injured his shoulder on Saturday. He practiced in a red non-contact jersey.

 

Hogan was better than most people want to admit, Roman's stubborness and lack of creativity couldn't utilize him. Neither Brady nor Garropolo seem to be having any difficulty.

That was his MO with the Dolphins and Bills. In practice, that is.

[Big C]

 

Hogan was better than most people want to admit, Roman's stubborness and lack of creativity couldn't utilize him. Neither Brady nor Garropolo seem to be having any difficulty.

 

 

While I agree that some are more down on Hogan than they ought to be, I don't think Roman failed to utilize his skills. I don't know how many more receptions or TDs you think he deserved, but with Sammy emerging and the run game being so strong (Hogan helped in that area too), I don't think we needed more from him, nor do I think utilizing him more would have given us any more wins.

 

The Bills wanted to bring him back, but they obviously need to save money for upcoming contracts and Hogan is replaceable. I think he's good, and he's perfect for the New England offense, much like Edelman. If Edelman went to another team, I'm sure he'd have similar stats to Hogan's last year.

That was his MO with the Dolphins and Bills. In practice, that is.

 

True. Also worth noting he was in a non-contact jersey.

[Ronin]

He's always open! Seems to have better hands though.

 

Why do we need a "new" 7-11 when the consensus here has been that losing Hogan was no big loss?

 

Explain

That was his MO with the Dolphins and Bills. In practice, that is.

 

LOL

 

Of course.

 

And when he posts 1,000 yards over there it'll be luck. Yeah yeah, I get it.

[Astrobot]

We have plenty of possession-type receivers. I count 7 that are decent.

• Robert Woods +51.7 PFF
• Greg Salas (knee, 28 on 8/25) 68.1 PFF
• Walter Powell 57.6 PFF
• Dez Lewis 57.9 PFF
• Greg Little (age 27, winter work w TT)
• Jarrett Boykin (fav target at VaTech)
• Leonard Hankerson +48.7 PFF

We also have three world-class, but injured WR's that can make underneath catches happen for others:

Marquise Goodwin 68.7 PFF

Kolby Listenbee (groin)

Marcus Easley (knee) 56.3 PFF

We have a feature receiver. WR is not going to be our problem.

Neither is RB.

[Big C]

 

Why do we need a "new" 7-11 when the consensus here has been that losing Hogan was no big loss?

 

Explain

 

LOL

 

Of course.

 

And when he posts 1,000 yards over there it'll be luck. Yeah yeah, I get it.

 

I highly doubt Hogan gets 1,000 yards. Brady spreads the ball around far too much. Gronk was the only 1,000 yard receiver last season and now they have Martellus Bennett to boot.

[Ronin]

While I agree that some are more down on Hogan than they ought to be, I don't think Roman failed to utilize his skills. I don't know how many more receptions or TDs you think he deserved, but with Sammy emerging and the run game being so strong (Hogan helped in that area too), I don't think we needed more from him, nor do I think utilizing him more would have given us any more wins.

 

Appreciate the response, but I'll have to disagree with that tho. What I see in Roman is an OC that has underachieved with the talent he's had.

 

In four seasons in SF with one of the best RBs in the league in his prime, also with one of the best WRs in Boldin, and as well one of the best TEs, as soon as he became the OC Davis' production dropped significantly and Roman's offenses were ranked an average of 14th in scoring and 20th in yardage, or slightly below average. His offensive talent was better than that.

 

His style is outdated and I've seen little that makes him alter his game plan when things don't work, he seems to stick to doing the same thing despite the lack of success.

 

I wouldn't say that he underachieved here last season due to the circumstances, at the same time I find it difficult to even remotely suggest that he overachieved either. We can cut him some slack for having a newbie QB last season too although that QB wasn't all that much different from the one he coached for four years prior to that, possibly even better. This season will tell more, but IMO when he leaves here he won't be an OC anywhere else, I think he'll be finished in the NFL coaching at this level, at least for a while or if he does get another OC job it won't be with a good team.

 

A good OC would take the strengths of the players that he has and formulate a game plan & system to take advantage of them. He does not do that, here nor in SF. If not, then get rid of the players, but when you get rid of players that go elsewhere and succeed to levels much greater than they did formerly, then cleary the implication is that they could have done much better under different circumstances there too, just didn't because of one reason or another, including a stubborness to create a system in which their skills are maximize, not minimized as Roman seems to have a knack for.

We have plenty of possession-type receivers. I count 7 that are decent.

• Robert Woods +51.7 PFF
• Greg Salas (knee, 28 on 8/25) 68.1 PFF
• Walter Powell 57.6 PFF
• Dez Lewis 57.9 PFF
• Greg Little (age 27, winter work w TT)
• Jarrett Boykin (fav target at VaTech)
• Leonard Hankerson +48.7 PFF

We also have three world-class, but injured WR's that can make underneath catches happen for others:

Marquise Goodwin 68.7 PFF

Kolby Listenbee (groin)

Marcus Easley (knee) 56.3 PFF

We have a feature receiver. WR is not going to be our problem.

Neither is RB.

 

LOL

 

OK

[Doc]

 

Why do we need a "new" 7-11 when the consensus here has been that losing Hogan was no big loss?

 

Explain

Not one said we need a new 7-11. Just someone to replace, and hopefully surpass, the 36 catches for 450 yards and 2 TDs he had last year.

 

LOL

 

Of course.

 

And when he posts 1,000 yards over there it'll be luck. Yeah yeah, I get it.

I'll bet you $1,000 he doesn't get 1,000 yards.

[Ronin]

 

I highly doubt Hogan gets 1,000 yards. Brady spreads the ball around far too much. Gronk was the only 1,000 yard receiver last season and now they have Martellus Bennett to boot.

 

First of all they play four games with Garropolo. Second of all, if what's happening now over there holds, and Hogan becomes Brady's favorite, barring an injury to Hogan, you can comfortably bet that Hogan will have 1,000 yards. Your comment on their WRs fails to include the notion that many of them have been injured the last few seasons and they've had to dig deep into their depth chart at times. As well, LaFell nearly had 1,000 two seasons ago.

 

They haven't had top notch WRs since Welker who routinely posted 1,000 yards.

 

Remember Welker's numbers in Miami before he went to NE? If not, go look.

 

I see Hogan following in the same manner. We spent all of our time forcing the ball to Sammy and that's what I mean about good v. not-good coordinators. Good ones, and good Head Coaches, get the most from their team, not necessarily only from certain players. Sammy's overrated anyway. Good yes, great, hardly. If he can't stay on the field this season, and at this point the signs are all pointing to the notion that it's going to be a monumental struggle, then his value to us plummets.

Not one said we need a new 7-11. Just someone to replace, and hopefully surpass, the 36 catches for 450 yards and 2 TDs he had last year.

 

 

I'll bet you $1,000 he doesn't get 1,000 yards.

 

Why though? I've been lectured ad nauseum by the masses here about how that didn't really matter. Every time I suggest that those numbers lost are nothing to sneeze at with a roster of talent behind Hogan that make him look like Welker I get mocked. Now all of a sudden I guess they matter. LOL

[YoloinOhio]

 

Why do we need a "new" 7-11 when the consensus here has been that losing Hogan was no big loss?

 

Explain

 

 

LOL

 

Of course.

 

And when he posts 1,000 yards over there it'll be luck. Yeah yeah, I get it.

we may not need one, but we have one. The consensus of him not being a big loss is because he was replaceable. Make sense?

[Big C]

 

Appreciate the response, but I'll have to disagree with that tho. What I see in Roman is an OC that has underachieved with the talent he's had.

 

In four seasons in SF with one of the best RBs in the league in his prime, also with one of the best WRs in Boldin, and as well one of the best TEs, as soon as he became the OC Davis' production dropped significantly and Roman's offenses were ranked an average of 14th in scoring and 20th in yardage, or slightly below average. His offensive talent was better than that.

 

His style is outdated and I've seen little that makes him alter his game plan when things don't work, he seems to stick to doing the same thing despite the lack of success.

 

I wouldn't say that he underachieved here last season due to the circumstances, at the same time I find it difficult to even remotely suggest that he overachieved either. We can cut him some slack for having a newbie QB last season too although that QB wasn't all that much different from the one he coached for four years prior to that, possibly even better. This season will tell more, but IMO when he leaves here he won't be an OC anywhere else, I think he'll be finished in the NFL coaching at this level, at least for a while or if he does get another OC job it won't be with a good team.

 

A good OC would take the strengths of the players that he has and formulate a game plan & system to take advantage of them. He does not do that, here nor in SF. If not, then get rid of the players, but when you get rid of players that go elsewhere and succeed to levels much greater than they did formerly, then cleary the implication is that they could have done much better under different circumstances there too, just didn't because of one reason or another, including a stubborness to create a system in which their skills are maximize, not minimized as Roman seems to have a knack for.

 

Roman is a run-oriented coordinator and his offenses have ranked in the top 4 the past four years.

 

I think he actually does a fantastic job of building his scheme according to his players. Look at what he did with Kaepernick in SF. I know his last season in SF was not so good, but there was a lot going on behind the scenes there that I feel may have contributed to their poor performance down the stretch.

 

And last year's stand-out play, the pin-and-pull sweep was tailored specifically for his backs, who move well laterally and can make a quick cut to get down field.

 

Of course, there are games where Roman's plan is puzzling and ineffective. But the scheme is largely built around the offense's core talent, among which Hogan is not. He is a role player. He's a good role player, but he's not somebody you build your scheme around. New England didn't want Hogan because his skill set is game breaking, they wanted him because they can plug him into their existing scheme.

[Ronin]

I'll bet you $1,000 he doesn't get 1,000 yards.

 

Too many factors involved. Brady gets hurt, which wouldn't surprise me, Edelman's health, Hogan's health, etc.

 

I will bet you $1,000 though, offline and not publicized here, that Hogan adds at least then again 50% to his numbers here under Roman assuming he plays at least 14 games and that Brady plays all of his as well. I'm hardly willing to take a gamble on a QB that I have zero faith in (Garoppolo) otherwise.

[Doc]

Why though? I've been lectured ad nauseum by the masses here about how that didn't really matter. Every time I suggest that those numbers lost are nothing to sneeze at with a roster of talent behind Hogan that make him look like Welker I get mocked. Now all of a sudden I guess they matter. LOL

Great points. I guess the Bills should just go with Watkins and Wood because they only need 2 WRs.

 

LOL

[Ronin]

 

Roman is a run-oriented coordinator and his offenses have ranked in the top 4 the past four years.

OK, I'm going to stop there, didn't even read the rest. HIs offenses in SF never cracked the top 10. 11th, 11th, 11th, 25th in scoring, 26th, 11th, 24th, 20th in yardage. Did you research this prior to commenting?

 

And DUH, of course he's a run-oriented coordinator, hence a HUGE part of the problem in a league WHEREBY THE RULES ARE WRITTEN TO FAVOR THE PASSING GAME!

 

Hence my comments.