26CornerBlitz Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 This sounds like a botched draft to me. @BuffRumblings #Bills were the only team to gain value on every pick according to one consensus board http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/5/2/11564430/bills-the-only-team-without-a-draft-reach-per-one-consensus-board "Buffalo is the only team to gain value on every single pick. Shaq Lawson, Reggie Ragland, Adolphus Washington, Cardale Jones, Jonathan Williams, Kolby Listenbee and Kevon Seymour were all ranked higher than the pick the Bills grabbed them at, and though there are very real questions about things like where Williams fits on the depth chart and so on, the board doesn’t know about needs and likes the talent they grabbed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I thought the object was to get really good players, not just players in quantity. If they really believed that Lawson is a perfect fit and elite, you take him. This is a team that really needs a defensive end, and Reed is not the player that Lawson is. Couldn't agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Ok, but that's what I'm saying. They could have four players instead of one Lawson. Yes that's net three players... Three players of far worse value. Analyzing the deals and non deals Whaley's draft deals netted the Bills Lawson + Ragland. If they had taken the Cowboys offer, they would have been 75 net points behind in the draft value chart, which is the equivalent of a mid-4th round pick. So we can quibble on the number of players that Lawson cost, but it shouldn't be debatable that Cowboys offer was way too low for the 19th pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 The only person that "botched the draft" was Jerry Jones. Whaley straight up nailed it. Had his picks and players evaluated and knew their values, made a perfect compensation demand for the #19 pick, but Jerry blew it. Whaley had the Bills set up to benefit either way. I understand the argument from those saying they would rather have made the trade, but it ultimately wasn't Buffalo's call. And I wouldnt have wanted them to take anything less. That 2017 1st round pick was crucial to the deal. Its a fun little exercise to play "what if" and think about the players we could have had if the deal had gone through. And maybe we would have ended up with comparable quality. But again, Dallas chickened out, and we still had one of the best drafts (on paper) in Bills history. Conclusion: LOL Dallas, Great job Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I thought the object was to get really good players, not just players in quantity. If they really believed that Lawson is a perfect fit and elite, you take him. This is a team that really needs a defensive end, and Reed is not the player that Lawson is. In this draft, IMO, unless you're picking top 5 or 6, the object was quantity in Rounds 2-4. That's my view, I understand it's unpopular here. I'm not a huge fan of Shaq Lawson as a player - I'd rather get four players in Rounds 2-4 than one Shaq Lawson. But I'm comfortable holding the minority view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 In this draft, IMO, unless you're picking top 5 or 6, the object was quantity in Rounds 2-4. That's my view, I understand it's unpopular here. I'm not a huge fan of Shaq Lawson as a player - I'd rather get four players in Rounds 2-4 than one Shaq Lawson. But I'm comfortable holding the minority view. And for the most part, the Bills agreed with you, but Dallas was too chicken to pull the trigger and give up their 2017 1st. Either way, we were in the drivers seat, calling our shots and getting the most for the team. If you're arguing that we should have been happy with their 2nd and 3rd for the #19 overall, then you are just crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 And for the most part, the Bills agreed with you, but Dallas was too chicken to pull the trigger and give up their 2017 1st. Either way, we were in the drivers seat, calling our shots and getting the most for the team. If you're arguing that we should have been happy with their 2nd and 3rd for the #19 overall, then you are just crazy. That's what the teams in the 20s were willing to take, according to Peter King. I don't think it's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 That's what the teams in the 20s were willing to take, according to Peter King. I don't think it's crazy. If they were willing to take that, then why didn't any other team between 20 and 26 pull the trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 If they were willing to take that, then why didn't any other team between 20 and 26 pull the trigger? Because Dallas was only offering its 2nd and 4th to those teams - they were insisting on a third (which is what Dallas had offered to Buffalo and the Jets), but Dallas refused. Now Jerry is saying he goofed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 That's what the teams in the 20s were willing to take, according to Peter King. I don't think it's crazy. "Willing to" but didnt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Drink your coffee Coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Oh no! He'll have to wait until 2017 to sell the farm to get Romo's replacement! Look, Romo is still his guy. And while he doesn't have much of a shelf life left, he's still a darn good QB. If Jerry was serious about getting a replacement, he had his shot at 4. And, for the record, he didn't massively overpay to go up to slots for Wentz or Goff, neither of whom are sure things. Instead, he took a fantastic RB, has a solid O-ine, has a healthy Romo this year (and probably for next year) Are you really defending Jones' lunacy? The point of this thread, I think, is that Jones drafted one QB and then immediately pined for another -- which is absolutely bizarre behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 "Willing to" but didnt? Correct - Dallas only offered teams in the 20s a 2nd and 4th, not a 2nd and 3rd. Read the article... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Because Dallas was only offering its 2nd and 4th to those teams - they were insisting on a third (which is what Dallas had offered to Buffalo and the Jets), but Dallas refused. Now Jerry is saying he goofed. No way the Bills should have dropped 15 spots just to pick up an extra 3rd round pick as others have said. Jerruh should have given up the 2017 1st instead of crying about it now and Dak Prescott must feel good about his whine as someone else pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Drink your coffee Coach. Yeah, and eat a Snickers. I guess you'll just have to agree to disagree with just about everyone on this. No biggie, what's done is done. The Bills are definitely NOT regretting their moves and picks in the draft, while Dallas's owner is already on record that he does. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Yeah, and eat a Snickers. I guess you'll just have to agree to disagree with just about everyone on this. No biggie, what's done is done. The Bills are definitely NOT regretting their moves and picks in the draft, while Dallas's owner is already on record that he does. Go Bills! Let me ask you this: would you rather have Lawson and Ragland, or Ragland, Jarron Reed, and an extra 3rd and 4th in this year's draft and an extra 4th in next year's draft? I think it's a legitimate point of debate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) Let me ask you this: would you rather have Lawson and Ragland, or Ragland, Jarron Reed, and an extra 3rd and 4th in this year's draft and an extra 4th in next year's draft? I think it's a legitimate point of debate... Coming into the draft, the Bills really needed someone who could set the edge against the run and also rush the passer. Lawson was the best guy on the board who could fulfill both roles. I'd like to know who you think they could have acquired in the 2nd round to fill the void if the deal had been completed as Dallas proposed. Edited May 2, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Let me ask you this: would you rather have Lawson and Ragland, or Ragland, Jarron Reed, and an extra 3rd and 4th in this year's draft and an extra 4th in next year's draft? I think it's a legitimate point of debate... I get it, and it's a fun and interesting game to play. If you are guaranteeing those players, then it's certainly debatable. But Seattle moved up to get Reed, and they likely jump us to do the same. I'm looking at the players that were taken in the 3rd round this year between Dallas's pick at #67 and us at #80 and dont see any "must haves". Now, with that said, I really wanted Braxton Miller, and maybe this would've meant we take Washington at 67 and Miller at 80. And if you are guaranteeing me Ragland, Reed, Washington, and Miller then it is certainly something to consider. But there are no guarantees, and ultimately, it was Dallas who is regretting their draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Let me ask you this: would you rather have Lawson and Ragland, or Ragland, Jarron Reed, and an extra 3rd and 4th in this year's draft and an extra 4th in next year's draft? I think it's a legitimate point of debate... I'd rather have the more talent guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) Coming into the draft, the Bills really needed someone who could set the edge against the run and also rush the passer. Lawson was the best guy on the board who could fulfill both roles. I'd like to know who you think they could have acquired in the 2nd round to fill the void if the deal had been completed as Dallas proposed. And if you're drafting based on need like that, you're DOA. Use free agency to fill holes, not the draft. Edited May 2, 2016 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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