Injuries are the #1 thing that derailed this season, Mario 2

[FireChan]

 

Mario is going to be the scapegoat of the year.

 

I hope he is cut. I hope he goes to Carolina next year and is All-Pro while Rex continues to struggle with his horrible defense which relies heavily on resources.

 

Jets D by draft round

2014

1st Round

Dee Miller

Calvin Prior

Sheldon Richardson

Quinton Coples

Mo Wilkerson

Kyle Wilson

Calvin Pace

2nd round:

David Harris

7 first rounders and David Harris

2013

First Rounders:

Dee Miller

Calvin Prior

Sheldon Richardson

Quinton Coples

Mo Wilkerson

Calvin Pace

Antonio Cromartie

2nd round:

David Harris

6 first rounds, David Harris

2012

Bryan Thomas

Darelle Revis

Antonio Cromartie

Kyle Wilson

LaRon Landry

AARON MAYBIN

Calvin Pace

and David Harris

 

2011

Mo Wilkerson

Darrelle Revis

Calvin Pace

Antonio Cromartie

Bryan Thomas

 

It's amazing how consistent he is! It's crazy!

[boyst]

 

Your first paragraph makes complete sense but does not connect to the rest of your post. The ridiculous game plan for NE1 exposed a lot about Rex's D and other teams exploited it. Some stupid teams with bad QBs like Miami, could not. Those are the games we won. Rex's dumbness allowed NE1, Cin, NYG, PHI, KC, WAS, and to a smaller extent, even Jax to waltz up and down the field. He only adjusted in NE2, in which the D looked very good, and NYJ1 as you point out.

 

The defense wasn't broke but Rex fixed it. Then is was broke and he left it alone. Nice job, but let's blame a single player for that.

and still, Mario is 2nd on the team in sacks with Hughes only having 1 more sack on the year. Their whopping total? 9. 9 Sacks.

 

Both players had that number by themselves last year. Dareus has 2. Together the unit has 11. They had 34 last year.

 

We also had 19 INT's. This year...14. That is 6 by CB's and one by Easley. 7 last year by CB's.

 

Mario is not the problem. He is the symptom.

It's amazing how consistent he is! It's crazy!

The more talent he got toward the final years in Jersey the more average he got.

 

This year the Jets have 7 first rounders starting on defense, and 2 at backup.

[The Big Cat]

and still, Mario is 2nd on the team in sacks with Hughes only having 1 more sack on the year. Their whopping total? 9. 9 Sacks.

 

Both players had that number by themselves last year. Dareus has 2. Together the unit has 11. They had 34 last year.

 

We also had 19 INT's. This year...14. That is 6 by CB's and one by Easley. 7 last year by CB's.

 

Mario is not the problem. He is the symptom.

 

92% of snaps and not a single stat recorded. Is he good or isn't he? Because good players at the very least find a way to get an assisted tackle. That was too tall of an order for Mario. How you can say it's the system and not him, I'll never know.

 

I guess you can argue it's the system, since Mario clearly doesn't like it. But it's Mario's choice to play like a worthless ass.

[boyst]

 

You're right, the devil is in those details. And one of those details is defensive players not making plays. Whiffing on tackles, blowing coverages, taking terrible angles. THOSE are the details that we can have the chicken v egg argument about. But they've got nothing to do with scheme.

 

Losing Spikes and Aaron Williams exposed flaws in many players. Losing Kyle Williams to injury and losing Mario Williams to himself blows a gaping 50% hole in this d-line that everyone wants to insist has been neutered by the coaches.

 

So, again, I come back to what the hell happened to a team that flew to the ball and played like they wanted to rip off their opponents' heads to one that did not.

 

Rex said so himself after the WAS game. I thought it was one of his most telling quotes of the year saying players can't be afraid to attack the ball. And our team looks like they are! Watch the Arizona players. They want to HURT the other guy. The Bills defense played this way last year. And Rex Ryan defenses have ALWAYS played this way. And they did in week one. Connecting the dot to Rex ignores every speck of history we have.

 

And that's where the confusion lies on my end.

so, all of these attackers and the natural instinct these guys have developed over successful careers has disappeared in one season and it's on those 11 men?

 

nothing to do with coaching? remember Jauron and his defense? remember some of our defenses in the past which taught the same wait and react defense?

 

Coaches coach angles, tackling. Coaches motivate the team.

 

this is on Rex and you're failing to spin it any other way.

[The Big Cat]

so, all of these attackers and the natural instinct these guys have developed over successful careers has disappeared in one season and it's on those 11 men?

 

nothing to do with coaching? remember Jauron and his defense? remember some of our defenses in the past which taught the same wait and react defense?

 

Coaches coach angles, tackling. Coaches motivate the team.

 

this is on Rex and you're failing to spin it any other way.

 

No, they disappeared in three quarters in week two. That's been my point. I don't get it.

 

And also, I'm the last person you want to mention Jauron to.

 

That man did more with zero talent than could ever be explained.

Edited December 29, 2015 by The Big Cat

[4merper4mer]

 

You're right, the devil is in those details. And one of those details is defensive players not making plays. Whiffing on tackles, blowing coverages, taking terrible angles. THOSE are the details that we can have the chicken v egg argument about. But they've got nothing to do with scheme.

 

Losing Spikes and Aaron Williams exposed flaws in many players. Losing Kyle Williams to injury and losing Mario Williams to himself blows a gaping 50% hole in this d-line that everyone wants to insist has been neutered by the coaches.

 

So, again, I come back to what the hell happened to a team that flew to the ball and played like they wanted to rip off their opponents' heads to one that did not.

 

Rex said so himself after the WAS game. I thought it was one of his most telling quotes of the year saying players can't be afraid to attack the ball. And our team looks like they are! Watch the Arizona players. They want to HURT the other guy. The Bills defense played this way last year. And Rex Ryan defenses have ALWAYS played this way. And they did in week one. Connecting the dot to Rex ignores every speck of history we have.

 

And that's where the confusion lies on my end.

I see what you're saying about attacking but you're point about Spikes is ridiculous. He couldn't have covered Beckham and AJ Green any better than Dareua did. He didn't play all that many downs and either Rex or Whaley, or both, did not want him. You cannot pin that on Mario. I don't pin it on Rex or Whaley. On that one I blame Spikes.....for sucking.

 

I'm with you a bit on Aaron Williams as I think he was developing as a leader, but he was not there yet. He hadn't developed the ability to channel his energy. And the defense was crap while he was still in during the NE game where our crap scheme was exposed.

 

The blowing coverages and taking bad angles goes hand in hand with being confused by the scheme that astrophysicists have yet to figure out and which has not stopped NFL teams with any consistency for over half of a decade.

 

If there was one defensive player failing to make the plays he made last year I can see looking at that player funny. When there are 10 or 11.....????????

 

No, they disappeared in three quarters in week two. That's been my point. I don't get it.

 

And also, I'm the last person you want to mention Jauron to.

 

That man did more with zero talent than could ever be explained.

 

 

LOL we actually agree on Jauron. I think he is very unfairly bashed.

 

They disappeared in week 2 because they were being asked to do crazy things they did not understand because Rex cared more about outsmarting Belechick than putting his team in the best position to win. I never believed it until this year, but Rex is about making Rex look good. And that's all folks.

[boyst]

 

92% of snaps and not a single stat recorded. Is he good or isn't he? Because good players at the very least find a way to get an assisted tackle. That was too tall of an order for Mario. How you can say it's the system and not him, I'll never know.

 

I guess you can argue it's the system, since Mario clearly doesn't like it. But it's Mario's choice to play like a worthless ass.

If it was only Mario Williams suffering statistically and with performance than I would start to listen. But, 10 other players and backups are falling in to the Rex Vortex.

 

I concede that he probably does not give two ***** the last two weeks.

 

I will finish with this: Mario Williams has accomplished more professionally than Rex Ryan. Rex Ryan has never coached a championship team. Mario Williams has been an All Pro twice, 2nd team all pro twice, 4 pro bowl nods, afc defensive player of the month.

 

rex ryan is 56-58 and 4-2 in the playoffs. was an assistant on a super bowl winner.

but never once has the fool been the best. and he hasn't been close in a long time.

 

No, they disappeared in three quarters in week two. That's been my point. I don't get it.

 

And also, I'm the last person you want to mention Jauron to.

 

That man did more with zero talent than could ever be explained.

i completely agree with jauron, but his schemes killed the braincells of many of us to binge drinking. it was hard to watch read and react defense with such a putrid lineup.

 

the team is lost and rex ryan is defeated.

something something spikes didn't play much

he played +48% of the snaps in 2014.

[The Big Cat]

I see what you're saying about attacking but you're point about Spikes is ridiculous. He couldn't have covered Beckham and AJ Green any better than Dareua did. He didn't play all that many downs and either Rex or Whaley, or both, did not want him. You cannot pin that on Mario. I don't pin it on Rex or Whaley. On that one I blame Spikes.....for sucking.

 

I'm with you a bit on Aaron Williams as I think he was developing as a leader, but he was not there yet. He hadn't developed the ability to channel his energy. And the defense was crap while he was still in during the NE game where our crap scheme was exposed.

 

The blowing coverages and taking bad angles goes hand in hand with being confused by the scheme that astrophysicists have yet to figure out and which has not stopped NFL teams with any consistency for over half of a decade.

 

If there was one defensive player failing to make the plays he made last year I can see looking at that player funny. When there are 10 or 11.....????????

 

 

LOL we actually agree on Jauron. I think he is very unfairly bashed.

 

They disappeared in week 2 because they were being asked to do crazy things they did not understand because Rex cared more about outsmarting Belechick than putting his team in the best position to win. I never believed it until this year, but Rex is about making Rex look good. And that's all folks.

 

I'm not suggesting this defense would have benefitted from Spikes, I'm saying you can't ignore the enormous impact he had last year, and that his absence has exposed the weaknesses in Brown and Bradham that were hidden last year--this is to counter the idea that scheme is to blame for their drop in production. It might be. But mostly because they can't play it.

 

I won't argue that Rex's scheme isn't complex and that this team hasn't had a helluva time learning it, but sorry, two other teams had a fine time learning it. We talk about Spikes masking weaknesses last year. That was supposed to be David Harris' job this year. I think that the Clay deal out-leveraged us here, and that's why we failed to bring him in, but Whaley said this morning that last year's offseason was about strengthening the offense: mission accomplished.

 

Rex's scheme sucked in week 2. But it didn't the next time they played him with a Kyle and Aaron Williams both out. So does Rex get credit, or doesn't he?

[KOKBILLS]

Watkins words were a bit jumbled and it was not 100% clear, IMO.

Mario spoke out about Watkins, too. Watkins spoke about Watkins. Both wanted Watkins getting the ball. Watkins had weeks disappearing on the stat sheet - did he disappear, too? No separation, no effort, poor blocking...

 

Eric Wood is a blowhard. He and Rex are twinsies. Wood has improved his play but he is a twat.

 

Grahams comments were not just directed at Mario. They were also directed at the coach and staff saying that the play calls were late, etc. Many things that Mario himself said.

 

The bolded made me laugh out loud...Maybe that says a lot about me...But it was still funny...

[boyst]

It's amazing how consistent he is! It's crazy!

My point is that he has had a lot of talent on defense and it has taken a lot of 1st round talent to run his scheme.

 

most teams cannot commit so 6 first round picks in 5 years to defense without neglecting other areas; most notably the OL.

[Nihilarian]

The biggest problem with this team this years wasn't just the injuries, and it wasn't any single player's bad attitude. Just look at the stats from last year to this year to see the biggest failing in the entire team and it has NOTHING to do with the offense! In fact, the offense has been the bright spot of this year's team.

 

The biggest difference was that sacks total in going from #1 last year and #2 the year before to number 31st now!!! To manage to do this with three pro bowlers on the line was quite a feat indeed! Not to mention Jerry Hughes is also an elite top pass rusher who was also neutered like the other three. From #4 overall to #20 is pretty bad too.

 

One of the alternates to the pro bowl in Marcel Dareus this year has been complaining since training camp that the players are being improperly used in Rex Ryan's defensive scheme and he has been right all along.

 

Imo Rex is a fraud, a buffoon, and an embarrassment. Maybe he will take a buyout and be a TV announcer.

 

I'm of the very same opinion and for the life of me, I don't get the Bills fans still defending this clown of a coach or what he managed to do to a top defense. I don't know about the rest of the fan base, but I took solace with this team being #2 in sacks in 2013, #1 in sacks in 2014, and #4 overall in defense despite not making the playoffs.

 

Bills fans still blaming it on injuries or the players lack of effort, and it's far more than anything like that. Rex Ryan and his clown car defense in a tragic comedy of errors.

 

• It's not just about the D-linemen dropping into pass coverage either as it's also about asking the players to control the gaps over rushing the passer.
• It's also about the extreme lack of blitzing going from Ryan's past schemes of up to 54% of the defensive snaps blitzing to an almost non-existent 9.5 % blitzing in some games this year.
• It's also about a clear lack of defensive line player rotation vs what Schwartz did last year.
• It's also about the players not knowing their assignments and being out of position. Guys running around and not set when the ball is snapped.
• It's also about the players themselves going public to complain about how they are being utilized. That #3 overall has been complaining about it since training camp.
• Preston Brown stating that even the slowest offenses have been hurrying to the line this season because they know the Bills have issues with the play calls coming in late
• The clear lack of discipline as the team accrues penalties like crazy in some games and in all three areas of the team.

 

This is unforgivable in my view to take a defense loaded with this much talent and then outright ruin it because the players don't fit the scheme the HC wants to run.

 

I have a difficult time believing that Rex Ryan somehow survives this season in Buffalo. I know the very last thing I want to see is this team retooling a defense that the team spent the last few years building. Rex Ryan turned three pro bowlers into average, sub-average players.

Threads like this keep popping up to defend the very worst head coach since Hank Bullough, and the very same fans keep popping up to defend him.

[boyst]

 

The bolded made me laugh out loud...Maybe that says a lot about me...But it was still funny...

he is. the guy likes Montgomery Gentry. He hosted them to watch practice. They're atrocious.

[4merper4mer]

 

I'm not suggesting this defense would have benefitted from Spikes, I'm saying you can't ignore the enormous impact he had last year, and that his absence has exposed the weaknesses in Brown and Bradham that were hidden last year--this is to counter the idea that scheme is to blame for their drop in production. It might be. But mostly because they can't play it.

 

I won't argue that Rex's scheme isn't complex and that this team hasn't had a helluva time learning it, but sorry, two other teams had a fine time learning it. We talk about Spikes masking weaknesses last year. That was supposed to be David Harris' job this year. I think that the Clay deal out-leveraged us here, and that's why we failed to bring him in, but Whaley said this morning that last year's offseason was about strengthening the offense: mission accomplished.

 

Rex's scheme sucked in week 2. But it didn't the next time they played him with a Kyle and Aaron Williams both out. So does Rex get credit, or doesn't he?

Dude what 2 teams had a fine time learning it? The one with Ray Lewis and the other one that sucked for the last 5 years running? Are those the 2? Geez.

 

And David Harris didn't sign because of Clay? He signed with the Jets when Clay was still on the fish. For Pete's sake.

 

And how long should it have taken Rex to figure out that Bradham and Brown were supposedly both such inept buffoons? A whole season? And when he did make that determination should he have kept doing the same thing that wasn't working? Are you accusing Rex of being insane?

[KOKBILLS]

While this debate is going on about Rex I think it's important to look at Rex's Defenses over the past couple years rather than fall back on the success he had overall in the past because the league is always changing...And if you're not getting better...well...

 

The truth is Rex's Defenses have been in the bottom third of the league for two consecutive years in the key...I mean key...category of 3rd down conversion percentage...That's not good for a guy that prides himself on his ability to confuse opposing QB's...The Bills are 16th in scoring Defense this year...The Jets were in the bottom 3rd of the league in scoring Defense in 2013 and 2014...

Honestly...I get that Rex has had some great Defenses in the past...But the last 3 years I think there is at least a bit of evidence that the NFL has caught up to him...And if that trend continues, the next couple years could get really messy...

[The Big Cat]

 

 

I will finish with this: Mario Williams has accomplished more professionally than Rex Ryan. Rex Ryan has never coached a championship team. Mario Williams has been an All Pro twice, 2nd team all pro twice, 4 pro bowl nods, afc defensive player of the month.

 

rex ryan is 56-58 and 4-2 in the playoffs. was an assistant on a super bowl winner.

but never once has the fool been the best. and he hasn't been close in a long time.

 

This is a bizarre point. You're comparing apples and oranges, but you're not even giving the oranges a fair crack.

 

Eliminating this season, with both guys having 10 years in the league, Rex Ryan had top-10 defenses every year but one. And they were 11 that year.

 

I think we're talking about Rex's ability to coach a defense in this discussion, so let's not ignore the consistent success he's had. Mario Williams has been many things, consistent isn't among them.

[FireChan]

 

This is a bizarre point. You're comparing apples and oranges, but you're not even giving the oranges a fair crack.

 

Eliminating this season, with both guys having 10 years in the league, Rex Ryan had top-10 defenses every year but one. And they were 11 that year.

 

I think we're talking about Rex's ability to coach a defense in this discussion, so let's not ignore the consistent success he's had. Mario Williams has been many things, consistent isn't among them.

Sounds like a pretty good DC. How is he as an HC?

Edited December 29, 2015 by FireChan

[Nihilarian]

11 hurries might be damned good for an average team, but not for one that has 28% of its payroll tied up in its front four. Like I said this game was against the Colts where it looked like they blitzed a ton, and it was more the better coverage that caused Luck to look so bad.

To put those pressures in better context currently the Buffalo Bills are 19th in sacks with seven, and Denver is leading the NFL with 18. The Bills sack percentage is currently 27th out of 32. Last season they ended the year at #1 out of 32 with 54 sacks against 559 pass attempts with a sack percentage of 8.8. This is a huge difference between last years defense and this years so far!

Now lets discuss the NE game. This isn't the very first time ever the Bills have faced Brady, or a QB that can get the ball out quickly. ooohh under 2 seconds, whatever will we do??? Rex Ryan played a soft cover defense that game, and was roasted for it!

"Rex Ryan, Dennis Thurman and defensive coaching staff: Ryan told his team that this loss was on his shoulders, and so he's a natural place to start in the "down" column. Ryan's defensive game plan couldn't put pressure on Tom Brady-- the Bills disrupted (a sack, batted ball, passed defense or interception) only 9.8 percent of Brady's dropbacks, a lower rate than in any of the Bills' 2014 games -- and he never seemed to have an effective plan for stopping either Rob Gronkowski or Julian Edelman."

http://espn.go.com/b...defensive-staff

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/181760-carucci-disconnect-exists-between-dl-and-scheme/page-14

This post was from after week two's game against the Patriots. The Buffalo Bills had no serious injuries at that time and were roasted by the Patriots for playing a prevent type defense from the start of the game. Meaning DB's 10 yards off the line, and safeties even further back. This with little or no blitzing all game long, and Ryan running his gap control scheme over rushing the passer.

We Bills fans have seen this defense for most of this season, and in the one sole game that Rex Ryan decided to bring the heat he managed to get pressure on Tom Brady in 20 of his 40 drop backs in that second Patriots game in week 10 in New England. And had Brady so flustered he was literally screaming at his offensive line players.

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Nihilarian

[4merper4mer]

 

While this debate is going on about Rex I think it's important to look at Rex's Defenses over the past couple years rather than fall back on the success he had overall in the past because the league is always changing...And if you're not getting better...well...

 

The truth is Rex's Defenses have been in the bottom third of the league for two consecutive years in the key...I mean key...category of 3rd down conversion percentage...That's not good for a guy that prides himself on his ability to confuse opposing QB's...The Bills are 16th in scoring Defense this year...The Jets were in the bottom 3rd of the league in scoring Defense in 2013 and 2014...

Honestly...I get that Rex has had some great Defenses in the past...But the last 3 years I think there is at least a bit of evidence that the NFL has caught up to him...And if that trend continues, the next couple years could get really messy...

 

I do hope he proves able to adjust. He needs to adjust, and I'm of the opinion that jettisoning and alienating proven NFL players is not the ideal step #1.

[Doc]

The main problem was Rex taking a great defense that didn't lose anyone significant and making it crap. I gave Marrone guff for doing nothing with the offense and I have to do the same with Rex, although in Rex's case it's worse because the defense didn't need changing.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

This is a bizarre point. You're comparing apples and oranges, but you're not even giving the oranges a fair crack.

 

Eliminating this season, with both guys having 10 years in the league, Rex Ryan had top-10 defenses every year but one. And they were 11 that year.

 

I think we're talking about Rex's ability to coach a defense in this discussion, so let's not ignore the consistent success he's had. Mario Williams has been many things, consistent isn't among them.

As Bill, Mario has been consistently in double digits sacks. His sack total went up every year. He is down 10 sacks this year from last year. He was a top 2 DE in the NFL until this year.

 

He has been extremely consistent as a Bill.

The main problem was Rex taking a great defense that didn't lose anyone significant and making it crap. I gave Marrone guff for doing nothing with the offense and I have to do the same with Rex, although in Rex's case it's worse because the defense didn't need changing.

Agree 100%. It's more disappointing because I considered Rex a top defensive coach & I never thought that about Marrone and offense.