KD in CA Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The skill aspect is not flimsy at best b/c "skill" is specifically mentioned as one of the reasons why joining a fantasy prize league is legal under the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006: "All winning outcomes reflect the relative knowledge and skill of the participants and are determined predominantly by accumulated statistical results of the performance of individuals (athletes in the case of sports events) in multiple real-world sporting or other events." Come on...you're intelligent enough to understand the reason that law essentially banned online poker but exempted fantasy sports had nothing to do with anything other than the influence of the financial backers of each of those particular industries. There is no way picking a fantasy team involves more skill than playing poker. Like everything else that law was a giveaway to special interests. It should not be used as a justification for anything other than our bankrupt system of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I saw that video I find it very funny and he makes some good points. So enjoy it the fake commercial at the end made me laugh hard. Daily Fantasy sports should not be banned it should be regulated and taxed. For us guys and gals that want to play. Lots not pretend that political things are in play and the NYS AG is trying to get his 10 minutes of fame. I feel he is wrong and while all the other states around NYS will or are passing bills to regulate it and get a cut of the action for the tax payers this NYS AG is being a jerk now go one state over look what the Mass AG is proposing and wants Daily Fantasy sports to be ok in her state with some regulations. http://dailyfantasytalk.com/2015/11/19/massachusetts-attorney-general-proposes-broad-regulations-dfs-sites/ So I guess all the other states will collect tax revenue but us New Yorkers will be on a island of are own. No daily Fantasy for you New Yorker What a F#%king Joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Come on...you're intelligent enough to understand the reason that law essentially banned online poker but exempted fantasy sports had nothing to do with anything other than the influence of the financial backers of each of those particular industries. There is no way picking a fantasy team involves more skill than playing poker. Like everything else that law was a giveaway to special interests. It should not be used as a justification for anything other than our bankrupt system of government. Whatever the reasoning may be is irrelevant; the fact is that the word "skill" is specifically mentioned in the Act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Hey guys I would concede this if you put money up against 2 ants moving on a side walk to see which ant who would get to the other side first and we bet 1 dollar on it, that would be gambling. I agree were are playing for money when we play fantasy sports. But just like the stock market that is skilled based we must look at histories and yearly reports and new product lines and make a good decision to weather we want to buy the stock because we think it will pay off. The same goes for Fantasy Sports we look at trends, match ups, injuries, who is guarding them, what is the defensive ranking of the slot corner vs the slot receiver your picking, hot streaks if there playing in back to back games like in the NBA or NHL. Making good line-ups that can win takes work and hours of it. Sure anyone can guess but if you want to win and make money it takes lots of research and work. If i decide to invest in a player then Im picking him just just like I am picking a stock. It's really speculation at its best. Not everyone is good at investing in stocks and not everyone is good in Daily Fantasy Sports. No one is forcing anyone to play. We live in America it's a free society we all have to make choices on how we spend are money. When you do buy stocks they charge a fee. When you play daily fantasy sports they charge a fee so your contest can be run properly. In stocks the fee is so the trade or transaction can be made. Why not follow the federal law that says it's legal and then regulate and tax it just like we do with horse racing and the casinos and such. Other states are passing bills and will reap the rewards. How can the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL sponsor these companies. Why because they do not see it as gambling. It's promoting there players and there statistics. You have players on your or my Fantasy sports team that are from every team in the NFL . There is no reason to ban this activity. It does not matter what the out come of let's say the Bills beating the pats, or if so and so covered the point spread. That's more like gambling and its determined by a out come of a real NFL game. This fantasy stuff drives ratings, it's good for all involved who like it or helps promote there players. I say regulate it so people feel safe playing it and tax it.I for one love playing it's a lot of fun and it really makes watch all sports a lot more fun. Nothing like playing a $3.00 contest on Draftkings in a NBA contest with thousands of other contestants and if my line up is good and I do well I could win $15k for 1st place. it's $3.00 and like the action and it's fun to then go watch all the NBA games on NBA league pass Edited November 19, 2015 by billsareback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Whatever the reasoning may be is irrelevant; the fact is that the word "skill" is specifically mentioned in the Act. Well unfortunately for FD and DK, states get to make laws too so what is irrelevant here is this poorly conceived federal Act you keep referring to. There is some mix of skill and luck involved in virtually all gambling, be it blackjack, poker, picking football winners, or setting a fantasy lineup. To declare one is fundamentally different from the others is absurd. You want to make them all legal, that's fine with me. But let's not pretend the laws have been constructed with anything but the lawmakers' best interests in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clownments22 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Part of the problem for me is the amount of money that's being tossed around and whether or not it will come around to eventually effect the integrity of the game. I heard on sports talk radio that it was estimated that 95 BILLION dollars will trade hands in NFL gambling this year. A lot of guys have made the point of "I'm only putting in 2 bucks to try to make 25K" etc. which is all well and good. What concerns me is the people putting in 2 million a week or whatever. It just seems like the amounts that are at stake could come around to effecting outcomes of games, players/coaches being bought, etc. Edited November 19, 2015 by clownments22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) if this goes to court I bet Fan Duel and Draft Kings will win. The NYS AG arguement that season long fantasy football and daily fantasy football are different is wrong. Both take money from contestants to play. Both pay out monies to the winners. CBS sportsline cost $125.00 to have them administer and run the contest for my work league. Fan duel takes $1.00 to run my $10.00head to head contest. One contest just happens to to end quicker. over 50 million people play fantasy sports many in season long leagues with money exchanging hands. In a court of Law this whole thing will be proven to be one and the same. Do you really think they will shut it down when the states can regulate it and take there cut. That's why the NYS AG move in lew of a Fantasy Sports Bill that is all ready mostly done and will be finished when the NYS legislature comes back into session in so weird. He's on the wrong side of this. Other states are already passing bills or about to pass bills that will regulate this industry. it will help the tax payers of there states. Meanwhile The NYS AG is trying to make political points because he thinks he is going to run for NYS Gov It's really quite amazing how he got where he's at. Read this Law suit by Draft kings against NY state and the AG. Is all this really worth all this when NYS bill will pass in the late winter or early spring and it's legal in 44 other states backed by s federal bill that was passed through congress that President George Bush signed into in 2006. READ LINK BELOW IF YOU GOT THE GUTS http://dailyfantasytalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/DK-TRO.pdf Edited November 19, 2015 by billsareback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Sorry but yearly and weekly fantasy leagues are vastly different. You have to manage your team for the long run in one, and the other you pick players you think will do well and hope you get lucky. Anyone who has played both knows the difference. Not to mention you are dumping hundreds of dollars a week into year long fantasy leagues. You pay an entry fee, and 4 months later you get a pay out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) go read my link to the law suit draft kings is suing the NYS AG. I played season long for 20 years it's the same as far as monies are collected to play a contes both do this. Monies are payed out when the contest is over. Both do this, when I play on draft kings I'm not playing against the company I'm playing another person like I do in my work league. Your confusing it because daily fantasy sports moves quicker. In season long we paid CBS sports line $125.00 so we could run are league. In draft kings I pay play $10.00 head to head with you if I win I win $19.00 from you. not draft kings. So draft kings gets a dollar for admin the contest just like CBS sportsline gets $125.00 per work league to run there league and get real time stats and up date and change line ups. Trust me it's the same one just is a shorter time period. The NYS AG argument will never hold up in court. Read this so you understand http://dailyfantasytalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/DK-TRO.pdf the other thing you said is you got to get lucky because it's season long and your stuck with the players you drafted and if you not good at trading and cutting players and free agent pick ups you won't do well. you just proved my point in your statement daily fantasy football is more of a skill based game it takes a lot more work and study to make good lineups and compete to win contests. That's why the 2006 Fed law exempted fantasy sports as skill based because they new it was not as simple as betting lets say bills vs Giants or over or under the total with. In Fantasy sports you have players from every team,lots of study and skill is needed to do well and it does not matter who wins the NFL game in real life. Sorry but yearly and weekly fantasy leagues are vastly different. You have to manage your team for the long run in one, and the other you pick players you think will do well and hope you get lucky. Anyone who has played both knows the difference. Not to mention you are dumping hundreds of dollars a week into year long fantasy leagues. You pay an entry fee, and 4 months later you get a pay out. Edited November 19, 2015 by billsareback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 /thread Last 3 mins of video Rubes added. http://youtube.com/watch?v=QJ453REQhys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hey Ryan why don't you go troll on a poker fourm and do us all a favor. you just want to be a debbie downer. must suck to be you. /thread Last 3 mins of video Rubes added. http://youtube.com/watch?v=QJ453REQhys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Broadway Joe nails it at 4:10. This is the new business model for the 21st century Take something that's not really legal for you to sell, and redefine it yourself and not say what it really is and run with it. Like Uber is not a taxi service, it's a "ride sharing service". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Hey Ryan why don't you go troll on a poker fourm and do us all a favor. you just want to be a debbie downer. must suck to be you. Watch the video, you're the guy in the bar. So my money is tied into how athletes play ? Now that I say it out loud it sounds just like gambling !! Lol. Once again. I am in favor of gambling. Pull the wool from over your eyes and spare me this game of skill horsecrap. And yes reddog. Broadway Joe nailed it, couldn't be simpler. Not sure what in tarnations billsareback is getting fired up about. It's pretty cut and clear. Edited November 19, 2015 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) go read my link to the law suit draft kings is suing the NYS AG. I played season long for 20 years it's the same as far as monies are collected to play a contes both do this. Monies are payed out when the contest is over. Both do this, when I play on draft kings I'm not playing against the company I'm playing another person like I do in my work league. Your confusing it because daily fantasy sports moves quicker. In season long we paid CBS sports line $125.00 so we could run are league. In draft kings I pay play $10.00 head to head with you if I win I win $19.00 from you. not draft kings. So draft kings gets a dollar for admin the contest just like CBS sportsline gets $125.00 per work league to run there league and get real time stats and up date and change line ups. Trust me it's the same one just is a shorter time period. The NYS AG argument will never hold up in court. Read this so you understand http://dailyfantasytalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/DK-TRO.pdf the other thing you said is you got to get lucky because it's season long and your stuck with the players you drafted and if you not good at trading and cutting players and free agent pick ups you won't do well. you just proved my point in your statement daily fantasy football is more of a skill based game it takes a lot more work and study to make good lineups and compete to win contests. That's why the 2006 Fed law exempted fantasy sports as skill based because they new it was not as simple as betting lets say bills vs Giants or over or under the total with. In Fantasy sports you have players from every team,lots of study and skill is needed to do well and it does not matter who wins the NFL game in real life. I think you need to take a step back and look at the spirit of the anti gambling laws. It isn't just a matter of if it is gambling or not, it is about the effect on society. I have no doubt that DFS were growing unchecked, and way too much money was trading hands daily which is triggering this response. The allegations of people cheating didn't help either. As for your link, it is DraftKings legal response, of course it will be full of exploited loopholes and taking apart the AG's statements in a convincing manner. The lawyer that wrote it, wouldn't be doing his job if it wasn't. DraftKings Is Not Engaged In "Gambling" Under New York Law. "A person engages in gambling when he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome." N.Y. Penal Law § 225.00(2). DraftKings is not running a "gambling" business because paying an entry fee to compete for a prize does not constitute "stak[ing] or risk[ing] something of value." And even if it did, the statute does not apply because DraftKings runs contests of skill, not "contest of chance." Nor do the outcomes of DraftKings' contests depend on a "future contingent event" outside the contestant's control or influence. The whole "paying an entry fee" rubs me the wrong way. As if we all don't know that our entry is part of the pool of money from other people, and that the pool of money is distributed to the winner based on the outcome of football games. The bolded is straight up BS. Edited November 19, 2015 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 /thread Last 3 mins of video Rubes added. http://youtube.com/watch?v=QJ453REQhys (12:30) 007 -- Aversion to Violence And yes, Broadway Joe defines it like a child would. Sometimes things are as obvious as they seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) You mean like the stock market and day trading and lots of money changing hands with insider trading. Yes I agree it should be regulated and taxed. So let's be the only state to not profit from this. Great idea I want this guy to be are next GOV I can't wait to get fu#k out of this state. It's no wonder we are losing jobs and industry. It's this kind of backward ass thinking that has us where we are today. This has been running daily fantasy sports in his state NY for six years since 2009 and not one peep from him. So he wasn't doing his job the last six years. this was happening 1 mile from his office in NYC. Now he gets a hard on. Do you think it might have anything to do with the campaign contributions he took from special interest the casino lobby and Indian gambling might have something to do with it. Boy I think I'll go down to my local OTB and bet the ponies on my way back I will stop at the Indian casino and play some slots. Then to top it off I will buy $100 in scratch offs. But god forbid I play 3 dollars on Fan duel in NYS. all the while the guy New Jersey can log on and play his 3 dollars on fan duels computer servers at located in NYC. but if your from NY you better not it will corrupt you it gambling. is this really fair or real WTF Edited November 19, 2015 by billsareback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) https://www.fanduel.com/games/13586/contests/13586-18882399/enter Good luck beating this, I would kill you with the Kamar Aiken value pick. Edited November 19, 2015 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Ryan good job buddy taking joy out of some ones sarrow and passion. please if I'm dying in a ditch leave me there and let me be I would never take your extended hand https://www.fanduel.com/games/13586/contests/13586-18882399/enter Good luck beating this, I would kill you with the Kamar Aiken value pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Ryan good job buddy taking joy out of some ones sarrow and passion. please if I'm dying in a ditch leave me there and let me be I would never take your extended hand Dramatic huh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Broadway Joe nails it at 4:10. This is the new business model for the 21st century Take something that's not really legal for you to sell, and redefine it yourself and not say what it really is and run with it. Like Uber is not a taxi service, it's a "ride sharing service". That was awesome. Well worth the 20 minutes. John Oliver is terrific and wildly funny sometimes. "It's not hootspa it's horseschit." That chutzpah thing was hysterical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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