Orton Being Underappreciated Again with Bills

[FireChan]

Wrong. He was maddening. When he threw 3 TDs he threw 3 INT. When he threw 2 TD he threw 2 INT. He only played four and a half games. He wasn't really very good in any of them, or horrible, until the last one when he played about a half.

 

He was bad against Oakland too.

 

How many times can you be wrong in a row? That may be an NFL record. He had two his rookie season. And one this year in game one.

 

http://www.pro-footb...player=ManuEJ00

 

What two did he have his rookie year? And he gets credit for Freddy's 60 yard run as a GW drive? That's dumb.

 

Still, Orton has more this year.

[Kelly the Dog]

I know you're off the Orton bandwagon, but I think that if you were a coach you'd probably say he's less likely to lose you the game than a guy who doesn't get through progressions well, is very inaccurate, and doesn't see the rush particularly well (and is hence prone to fumbles). Orton is not a good player, but I do think he's a significantly better game manager than the alternative.

I do,too. That wasnt what I was responding to. My point was more about the coaching. I dont think we should be playing Manuel, but he doesnt suck nearly as much as people are making him out to be. And they talklike he never ever makes a play.

[FireChan]

Could we at least agree that the QB change was made in an attempt for the coach to impress the new owner. And if it wasnt for that we may well have seen EJ all season.

That the better long term intrest in the team is in EJ succeding

 

I'd argue that the QB change was made to win the maximum amount of football games possible this season.

[dave mcbride]

BS. You know full well EJ would get crucified for this. I cannot believe people are actually defeindg the play of a QB who had the worst game of his career. Turtling shows weakness. Stand in there and make a play for your team. If you are going to turtle, you might as well punt.

 

It's not BS at all, and I actually think you're just making stuff up to justify a crusade. I would not crucify Manuel for protecting the ball, but you're free to believe what you want to believe. When a sack is coming and it's unavoidable, sometimes it's best to just protect the football. Just ask Rob Johnson, who lost six fumbles in 8 games in 2001. Colin Kaepernick has lost 7 fumbles this year. So has RG III. No one is suggesting that Orton is good, by the way. They clearly need an upgrade. Easier said than done, however.

 

I do,too. That wasnt what I was responding to. My point was more about the coaching. I dont think we should be playing Manuel, but he doesnt suck nearly as much as people are making him out to be. And they talklike he never ever makes a play.

Agreed.

[TheBillsWillRiseAgain]

I know. But still man, the game in hand and you throw a pick-six? On a dump-off. That just encapsulates EJ's issues as a QB.

 

I know. It was maddening. That game drove me NUTS.

[TSOL]

 

 

I'd argue that the QB change was made to win the maximum amount of football games possible this season.

 

Thats all any of us want. Max Wynn. Is that guy available this off season?

Git r done Whaley

Edited December 15, 2014 by mastershake

[Kelly the Dog]

He was bad against Oakland too.

He had 300 yards passing. 1 Td 1 INT. The team ran for 25 yards. They lost by three points.

[CountDorkula]

It's not BS at all, and I actually think you're just making stuff up to justify a crusade. I would not crucify Manuel for protecting the ball, but you're free to believe what you want to believe. When a sack is coming and it's unavoidable, sometimes it's best to just protect the football. Just ask Rob Johnson, who lost six fumbles in 8 games in 2001. Colin Kaepernick has lost 7 fumbles this year. So has RG III. No one is suggesting that Orton is good, by the way. They clearly need an upgrade. Easier said than done, however.

 

 

A crusade? This thread is about a quarterback (who is apparently under appreciated) having a 17QBR, he has lead an offense to 4 touchdowns in 5 weeks. 2 in garbage time against Denver. When was the last meaningful Offensive touchdown the Bills scored?

 

It was said we have Unrealistic expectations. Im sorry I like my offense to score at least 1 touchdown a game.

[FireChan]

He had 300 yards passing. 1 Td 1 INT. The team ran for 25 yards. They lost by three points.

 

Yeah, he had almost those same numbers against DEN. I'm not buying that KO was the model of consistency prior to Buffalo. He had good games, bad games, and okay games. He's just had more bad here. I'll admit I could be wrong here, I never really watched him play, but I feel the stats could really hide how bad he played for some of his games.

 

Can you explain to me EJ's two GW drives last year? I must've forgotten one.

[dave mcbride]

A crusade? This thread is about a quarterback (who is apparently under appreciated) having a 17QBR, he has lead an offense to 4 touchdowns in 5 weeks. 2 in garbage time against Denver. When was the last meaningful Offensive touchdown the Bills scored?

 

It was said we have Unrealistic expectations. Im sorry I like my offense to score at least 1 touchdown a game.

I don't buy the ESPN QBR rating, so there is that (http://www.coldhardf...r-tv-stat/7978/ ). I also don't think that the TDs against Denver were garbage time TDs. Any time you put yourself within 1 score with a minute to go, it's not garbage time given the roughly 15 percent success rates on onside kicks. He obviously didn't play well in that game, but it wasn't like they were down 38-17. Denver is actually really good on D too - just ask Philip Rivers, who struggled yesterday.

 

I do agree that he's not good enough.

Edited December 15, 2014 by dave mcbride

[Kelly the Dog]

Yeah, he had almost those same numbers against DEN. I'm not buying that KO was the model of consistency prior to Buffalo. He had good games, bad games, and okay games. He's just had more bad here. I'll admit I could be wrong here, I never really watched him play, but I feel the stats could really hide how bad he played for some of his games.

 

Can you explain to me EJ's two GW drives last year? I must've forgotten one.

The Carolina one was very legit. Got the ball with 80 yards to go and 1:38 and scored with 2 seconds left on a pass to Stevie.

The other one was Jacksonville. I'm not sure how the NFL decides what is and what isnt. It was a 4th quarter drive, the last score of the game that took the lead. It was 80 yards, about 50 of it on passes and a short TD pass to Frank Summers.

[thebandit27]

Question for you - how open do you think the receivers were yesterday? They didn't look too open to me, although I don't have the benefit of the All 22. I also felt like in obvious passing situations the Packers put up a pretty ferocious rush. He did not fumble, which was good. In fact, he has not fumbled in the last seven games (since the Minnesota game), which is pretty remarkable for a guy who takes a fair number of sacks. His turtling prior to impending sacks is actually smart football.

 

The WRs were getting open from my vantage point at the game. I think some of the "open vs. covered" debate centers around whether guys are "NFL open" vs. "college open"...know what I mean?

 

More than a few occasions, guys were "NFL open" and Orton simply couldn't (or wouldn't) get them the ball. It's so frustrating to watch from the stands.

[dave mcbride]

The WRs were getting open from my vantage point at the game. I think some of the "open vs. covered" debate centers around whether guys are "NFL open" vs. "college open"...know what I mean?

 

More than a few occasions, guys were "NFL open" and Orton simply couldn't (or wouldn't) get them the ball. It's so frustrating to watch from the stands.

 

Good to know. You can't see those things on TV.

[FireChan]

The Carolina one was very legit. Got the ball with 80 yards to go and 1:38 and scored with 2 seconds left on a pass to Stevie.

The other one was Jacksonville. I'm not sure how the NFL decides what is and what isnt. It was a 4th quarter drive, the last score of the game that took the lead. It was 80 yards, about 50 of it on passes and a short TD pass to Frank Summers.

 

Ah, completely forgot the Jax game. That was a good one by EJ, started horrendous and shook it off.

 

I just wouldn't consider the Bears game a GW drive orchestrated by EJ. I know that could be construed as biased, but I don't think he was responsible for more than 10% of the yardage on that drive. But you're right, I was wrong there.

[Kelly the Dog]

Ah, completely forgot the Jax game. That was a good one by EJ, started horrendous and shook it off.

 

I just wouldn't consider the Bears game a GW drive orchestrated by EJ. I know that could be construed as biased, but I don't think he was responsible for more than 10% of the yardage on that drive. But you're right, I was wrong there.

He threw a nice 20 yard pass into coverage, downfield (you know, stuff he's never ever done) that Mike Williams went up and caught that was the biggest play of the drive (except Fred run). It was second and 9 and got us into Bear territory.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[Thunderstealer]

In this league, it's important to have a qb who's played against these D coaches--That's why Cutler will get snagged quickly this off season.

 

Orton knows these dudes. Sure he under throws a 6' 8" tight end--but leading up to a game, Orton and coordinators can draft a better scheme than what could be drawn with EJ, or other qb's with few starts.

 

Experience is worth it.

[papazoid]

 

I don't buy the ESPN QBR rating, so there is that (http://www.coldhardf...r-tv-stat/7978/ ). I also don't think that the TDs against Denver were garbage time TDs. Any time you put yourself within 1 score with a minute to go, it's not garbage time given the roughly 15 percent success rates on onside kicks. He obviously didn't play well in that game, but it wasn't like they were down 38-17. Denver is actually really good on D too - just ask Philip Rivers, who struggled yesterday.

 

I do agree that he's not good enough.

 

garbage time is the wrong word.

 

Denver was in a "prevent" defense and giving kyle all the underneath short throws.

[FireChan]

He threw a nice 20 yard pass into coverage, downfield (you know, stuff he's never ever done) that Mike Williams went up and caught that was the biggest play of the drive (except Fred run). It was second and 9 and got us into Bear territory.

 

That was a good play by EJ. No doubt.

 

The view that EJ never throws downfield is false, and I didn't mean to insinuate that. But I have a lot of doubt that he attempts some of the passes that Orton did, especially after Houston.

Edited December 15, 2014 by FireChan

[dave mcbride]

garbage time is the wrong word.

 

Denver was in a "prevent" defense and giving kyle all the underneath short throws.

I agree about that.

[tonyd19]

Thats insane. How can you say that? How can you think that Ej could look any worse than Orton today? In my eyes, everything was there, the offense played well, the game plan has been there for the last two weeks. Coaching isnt a problem, theres one glaring weakness on this team and we all saw what it was. I have no idea of Ortons stats today and i dont care. He looked awful. All i know is, is EJ stronger and faster. No offensive TD's says it all. EJ could have just as easily had no TD's today either. But i dont think he would have, i think EJ would have been able to punch it in once. Just on the energy the rest of the team was carrying alone.

 

And i dont wanna hear about the WR Mutiny either. Whos this mutiny consist of anyways? Woods? A second yr player that hasnt proven anything? And a rookie? Neither one of those guys has any place forming a mutiny. Woods is a professional football player, hell catch balls thrown by who the coach say throws them, not the other way around. Or maybe Hogan was gonna mutiny? Or Chandler? Doubtful

 

EJ is friggin terrible and will never start for this team or any other unless he improves dramatically. If he was better than Orton, he would be playing. He is not playing because he is awful. I really wish EJ was the next Tom Brady...I really do. And I hope he proves me wrong. But as of now EJ is friggin terrible and will never see the field again short of injury.