Manther Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think it is actually the opposite. I think many here watch the Bills TOO closely. Every tiny minute move is dissected and discussed until it is beat into the ground. Many here didn't like the Marrone hire and every story they can use to justify their preconceived notions they use. This is the general consensus about the job Marrone has done from outsiders. We are fans so it is difficult to reconcile the fact that these are the lowly Bills we are talking about. The fact that Marrone has brought them back to respectability is not lost like it is here. Here everyone wants to credit Whaley for the good roster moves and blame Marrone for the bad ones. They want to credit Schwartz and Pettine for the play of the defense and give none of it to Marrone. When Orton plays well it is in spite of the coaching blah blah blah. Marrone is doing a good job here whether people want to admit it or not. Nobody turns it around overnight anymore especially from the doldrums that were the 2000s Buffalo Bills. I think you are way off. Jmo Oh it is very clear from EVERY post that you don't like Marrone. I just wish people could be a little more objective about what they are seeing. I think Marrone has done a great job with the cards he has been dealt. The o-line isn't good and neither is the qb. That makes any innovation or even a simple offense difficult to run. As for offensive line expertise I would think it is easy to imagine he doesn't have time to devote solely to the offensive line. He has an entire team to oversee that is why HCs have position coaches. Again this is the sad sack sorry for 15 years Buffalo Bills. This team is playing tough hard nosed football for the first time in forever. This team is winning more than it is losing for the first time in forever. I don't get how people don't see this. Would you want Pete Carroll as the head coach in Buffalo? He went 7-9 in each of his first 2 years in Seattle (this in his second opportunity), how about Belicheck who went .500 in his first 2 years in NE (in his second stint). This was a job that had a ton of history and most of it poor. This wasn't a glamor job nor a quick fix job. Do you honestly not see a different team from the Gailey/Jauron time? Those teams were timid and soft. Those teams were lacking talent and toughness. This team is close on the talent part (with a few missing important pieces) and has arrived on the toughness part. I stopped reading when you said he has done a lot with what he was dealt. For two reasons. One we have the talent to make the playoffs on the roster. How is that a challenge. Secondly...an even better example....our O line that everyone says is bad has 4 of the 5 starters from Gailey's era. That was a good O line and now it is bad? Marrone is an O line coach! He can't adapt or more importantly chooses not to adapt. He is stubborn. He consistently tries to put square pegs in round holes. This^ Marrone has his worts, but he's the best we've had in a longggggggggg time Marrone is coaching the best roster we have had in a long time and under achieving with it. That is how good the roster is and how bad we have been in the past. We will go 8-8...maybe 9-7 but it will not be due to Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Someone explain why Philbin deserves to be fired (at 7-6) but Marrone doesn't. Are the Dolphins that much more talented? He's had three years to Marrone's two. That's a big part of it. As is this: They have a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Who builds the team the GM or the HC? He drafted the players and brought in the backups and signed Orton? Wow what does Whaley do? I said he and his GM. If you don't believe that a HC choses his roster along with the GM, then you really can't continue to participate in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'm sure that getting rid of the qb's is in the works. If we lose against GB I suspect they might want to give EJ a "last chance" at qb for the final games. As to Marrone...an 8-8 season works against him, as does giving up two years of first round choices to get Watkins when there were two or three WR's who were possibly as talented available. Getting rid of Marrone may not be a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'm sure that getting rid of the qb's is in the works. If we lose against GB I suspect they might want to give EJ a "last chance" at qb for the final games. As to Marrone...an 8-8 season works against him, as does giving up two years of first round choices to get Watkins when there were two or three WR's who were possibly as talented available. Getting rid of Marrone may not be a bad idea. I'd much rather see EJ start at home than on the road in Oakland or NE. The fact Orton is still the starter going into GB is tough for me to swallow based on how bad he's been in the past 5 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'd much rather see EJ start at home than on the road in Oakland or NE. The fact Orton is still the starter going into GB is tough for me to swallow based on how bad he's been in the past 5 games. @buffalobills Doug Marrone: Kyle Orton will start at QB on Sunday. "He puts us in the best position to win a game" So Marrone does stand up comedy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 @buffalobills So Marrone does stand up comedy now? So true! Actually, I'd love to write a SNL sketch with Doug in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 So true! Actually, I'd love to write a SNL sketch with Doug in it. With him ascending into heaven and then blessing those in need with miracles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 "Sadly, he's a major upgrade over first-round bust EJ Manuel." Yep. And why isn't Whaley on here? Drafted EJ (but now tries to push it to a Buddy pick), Traded away a 1st round pick next year (could have been used on a QB) for a WR who we could have gotten a similar talent in the draft spot we were in, Trades a 5th rounder for a WR that is now going to be cut but still eat up more than 5 mill in 2015 cap room, trades a 4th rounder for a RB seldom used. Whaley should be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 "Sadly, he's a major upgrade over first-round bust EJ Manuel." Yep. And why isn't Whaley on here? Drafted EJ (but now tries to push it to a Buddy pick), Traded away a 1st round pick next year (could have been used on a QB) for a WR who we could have gotten a similar talent in the draft spot we were in, Trades a 5th rounder for a WR that is now going to be cut but still eat up more than 5 mill in 2015 cap room, trades a 4th rounder for a RB seldom used. Whaley should be gone. Name a QB we could draft in the first round this year picking in the late teens. /crusade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 As I asked in another thread, where is the signature win for this coaching staff? How about the win against the 13-3 Panthers last year How about beating the defending Super Bowl champions last year How about the 19-0 win against Miami last year when they needed to win to get in the playoffs How about the win on the road against the 9-4 Lions this year How about the win week 1 against Chicago when nobody (yourself included if you are being honest with yourself) had them winning I stopped reading when you said he has done a lot with what he was dealt. For two reasons. One we have the talent to make the playoffs on the roster. How is that a challenge. Secondly...an even better example....our O line that everyone says is bad has 4 of the 5 starters from Gailey's era. That was a good O line and now it is bad? No it was never a good o-line. The team featured a quick strike offense that both masked FItz's weak arm and the lack of talent on the o-line. The pass plays were quick hitters. In case you want to talk about how much better Gailey was he led the team to the 14th, 19th, and 25th best offense while here. I said he and his GM. If you don't believe that a HC choses his roster along with the GM, then you really can't continue to participate in this thread. So does Marrone get credit for Kiko, Woods, Sammy, Preston Brown, S Henderson, or Duke Williams? Or does he just get blame for EJ and Cujo and the other misses? If you can't admit that teams whiff on picks all the time the you really can't continue to participate in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Name a QB we could draft in the first round this year picking in the late teens. /crusade The guy from Baylor or the guy from Oregon state. I'm sure there are a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) The guy from Baylor or the guy from Oregon state. I'm sure there are a lot more. Petty is terrible and comes from a spread system. Pass. OSU's QB (Rudolph who I do like) is only a Frosh. Next... The argument that the Watkins' first rounder cost this team a first round QB is so lazy, so fictional that it belongs in a young adult novel rather than anything resembling reality. There are more ways than just the first round to find a QB, and frankly, this QB class is WEAK -- which everyone knew going in and was one of the reasons that first rounder was expendable in Whaley's eyes. Sammy's a star. Worth the two picks. No amount of imagination can come up with a realistic scenario where the Bills are better off without Watkins and a first round QB from this draft. It's beyond ridiculous. Edited December 9, 2014 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The guy from Baylor or the guy from Oregon state. I'm sure there are a lot more. Mariotta is a clear top 5 if not the #1 overall choice. Winston will also likely be off the board. Currently the Bills sit in the #17 spot. For a QB to drop that far in the first round they would have to come with some serious question marks. Currently Mannion (the Oregon State guy) is the #148 rated prospect on drafttek. Bryce Petty (the Baylor guy) sits at the #132 rated prospect on drafttek. It isn't a leap that both of these guys are available in the second. Realistically between 17 and 49 the Bills are looking at missing out on Hundley and maybe one other guy. 2015 is shaping up to be another bad year for QB in the draft which may be something that the Bills thought prior to the Sammy trade. frankly, this QB class is WEAK -- which everyone knew going in and was one of the reasons that first rounder was expendable in Whaley's eyes. My post was 5 minutes later but I hadn't seen this when I posited the same idea I swear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Mariotta is a clear top 5 if not the #1 overall choice. Winston will also likely be off the board. Currently the Bills sit in the #17 spot. For a QB to drop that far in the first round they would have to come with some serious question marks. Currently Mannion (the Oregon State guy) is the #148 rated prospect on drafttek. Bryce Petty (the Baylor guy) sits at the #132 rated prospect on drafttek. It isn't a leap that both of these guys are available in the second. Realistically between 17 and 49 the Bills are looking at missing out on Hundley and maybe one other guy. 2015 is shaping up to be another bad year for QB in the draft which may be something that the Bills thought prior to the Sammy trade. It's absolutely something they thought about, even if they fully believed in EJ (which I'm sure they did at the time), they did their due diligence in that regard. The folks who want to kill Whaley for that trade and fall back on the lack of a pick to grab a QB are just fans who would pick on Whaley regardless. They're clueless... well, not all of them. Just KellyCrusader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 How about the win against the 13-3 Panthers last year How about beating the defending Super Bowl champions last year How about the 19-0 win against Miami last year when they needed to win to get in the playoffs How about the win on the road against the 9-4 Lions this year How about the win week 1 against Chicago when nobody (yourself included if you are being honest with yourself) had them winning Sorry. None of those games were in big situations as in the Bills being playoff contenders. When they've had chances to step up and make a statement this season as a good team, they have failed in each instance. Notable failures have been NE, KC, @ MIA, and @ DEN. They beat GB and I'll be impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) "Sadly, he's a major upgrade over first-round bust EJ Manuel." Yep. And why isn't Whaley on here? Drafted EJ (but now tries to push it to a Buddy pick), Whaley should be gone. That is 100% inaccurate and flat out false. Whaley has publicly owed this pick, said it was a consensus pick, and he was 100% on board. And he has said that more than 1 time. You can have your EJ crusade, but do not fabricate lies and spew inaccuracies. Not at all. He has his issues just as any coach does. He just isn't the worst coach ever, a bumbling idiot, or deserving of being fired. Too many people on this board are on this crusade. The guy has gotten 2 years. 2! To turn around the franchise with the longest playoff drought in the entire history. Instead of being snarky about 1 sentence why don't you actually discuss the points I have raised. 122...lets even buy your argument that that he isnt the worst coach ever(i agree), nor a bumbling idiot(times i think he is)...do you believe there are coaches that will be available that give us a better chance to win? with the same exact cast of players? Cause i do...and if you believe in the "draft the BPA"...i say it goes for coaches as well. I think we can get an upgrade easy...even if Marone is better than what we have had lately. Edited December 9, 2014 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 122...lets even buy your argument that that he isnt the worst coach ever(i agree), nor a bumbling idiot(times i think he is)...do you believe there are coaches that will be available that give us a better chance to win? with the same exact cast of players? Cause i do...and if you believe in the "draft the BPA"...i say it goes for coaches as well. I think we can get an upgrade easy...even if Marone is better than what we have had lately. There may very well be coaches out there but at what cost? If Marrone leaves then Schwartz likely is also gone. Now we need to get all 3 (oc/dc/hc) who are the candidates? Harbaugh: Will never come to Buffalo. Won't leave the west coast, feud with Kelly (yes I think this actually matters), difficult to deal with, team has regressed this year. College coach: absolutely no guarantee of success or that they won't have the same issues as Marrone. The hard part with college coaches is you don't know if it is the talent level being different or the coaches being great. Look at Saban as the best example of a great college coach and a poor pro one. Adam Gase: is it him or Peyton? D Bevell: Sure the hawks offense is ranked 11th however if you dig deeper they are averaging 197 ypg passing good for 29th. They do sport the #1 rushing offense which can be attributed to a all time rushing performance from the qb position as well as Beast Mode. There will be no scrambling like what Wilson does here in Buffalo. I think anyone you bring in will come with a lot of question marks. I think anyone you bring in will have an adjustment period. I would prefer to give Marrone 3 years as I think he has earned that and it is only fair but for the worst of the worst coaches (which we agree he is not). I don't like the idea that coaches get less than 3 years and ask anyone to find a team that went from terrible to good (and sustained it) in less than 3 years. This is a sad sack downtrodden franchise and for the first time in a long time I actually see a light at the end of the tunnel. It would be a shame to me to move on without giving him a fair shake. If the team regresses next year then by all means we can move on but this team this year has shown progress even with it's glaring holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The only upgrade at QB that will be available and I see as being worth the risk is Bradford. He's been fragile, but I've been trying to watch film of his from past seasons, not highlight reels, and I think he actually has "it". The arm and accuracy are there and his eyes are far from slow. If it's a 3rd or 4th that the Rams are seeking, I'd bite. This idea is the Kevin Kolb approach all over again! The Bills mortgaged the farm to get Sammy, I think they ought to do the same to get Jameis Winston in this year's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) There may very well be coaches out there but at what cost? If Marrone leaves then Schwartz likely is also gone. Now we need to get all 3 (oc/dc/hc) who are the candidates? I think anyone you bring in will come with a lot of question marks. I think anyone you bring in will have an adjustment period. I would prefer to give Marrone 3 years as I think he has earned that and it is only fair but for the worst of the worst coaches (which we agree he is not). I don't like the idea that coaches get less than 3 years and ask anyone to find a team that went from terrible to good (and sustained it) in less than 3 years. This is a sad sack downtrodden franchise and for the first time in a long time I actually see a light at the end of the tunnel. It would be a shame to me to move on without giving him a fair shake. If the team regresses next year then by all means we can move on but this team this year has shown progress even with it's glaring holes. Fair points...and i get the continuity angle. I disagree Schrwartz has to go if new coach comes in, ...and i am prolly one of the few on here who has zero issues with Hackett. I thought he called a great first half Sunday...the Bills just could not execute the plays. For the record, i dont think theres is a snowball chance in hades he gets fired...but to the original point...i dont think there will ever be a year where he faces LESS adversity than this year(unless we get both Souths next year ) we only get one Edited December 9, 2014 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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