Pondslider Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) I don't see how putting yourself in an all or nothing position, with odds against....automatically = not trying to win. Also how are the odds against? According to this site http://www.sportsone...rticle/62665328 from 2010-2013 teams had a 62.7% chance of making 4th and short. It's slightly dated I guess, but those odds are hardly against them and I'll take that even with this coaching staff over giving the ball back to the other team, knowing you will have to spend your timeouts and in the best case scenario get the ball back roughly where you just were with less time and no timeouts and lowering your chance to win. Especially when you need two scores in a short amount of time as the Bills did. Edited December 8, 2014 by Pondslider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Now that I think about it, Williams not playing could be something as stupid simple as: he can't get on the same page with Orton, but Hogan can, and Orton told the coaches he can't play with Williams. Now what the F are any of the coaches supposed do? Play Williams because....? EDIT: see, I can do the conjecture thing too! No one is on the same page as Orton, particularly not Kyle Orton. Meow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 But that's totally subjective, and with 0 frame of reference vis a vis the playbook, calls, QB's preferences, etc. That's all I'm saying: we can't KNOW the answer here, until somebody walks up to Marrone and asks him, on the record, why Williams has been benched in favor of Hogan. No one has asked that question. IF Jerry Sullivan was half the provocateur/hard hitting columnist he wished he was, he'd have asked that question 10 weeks ago. That's like saying we don't know Antonio Gates is better than Lee Smith. We know he is because for several years in a row he has proven it on the field in real NFL games on relatively poor teams with relatively poor quarterbacking by doing the same thing over and over and over, out positioning and out muscling and out jumping defensive backs on jump ball types of throws, often in the endzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 That's like saying we don't know Antonio Gates is better than Lee Smith. We know he is because for several years in a row he has proven it on the field in real NFL games on relatively poor teams with relatively poor quarterbacking by doing the same thing over and over and over, out positioning and out muscling and out jumping defensive backs on jump ball types of throws, often in the endzone. But how do you know unless you're there in practice, Kelly? HOW DO YOU KNOW?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 You didn't watch the game and/or you don't have insight into why Manning has been sacked 13 times all year. Defense didn't have to put Manning on his ass to take away major parts of his offense today. Their entire game plan was to get the ball out fast and on the few occasions they went long, he was picked off twice. And the underneath stuff was well prepared for by Scwhartz; the best our LBs have done all year on shallow crosses. GO BILLS!!! Yup. They were amazing. Even that first one to Welker, Aaron Williams was there and should have intercepted or knocked it down he just took a bad angle at the last moment for who knows what reason. The defense was very, very good without sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Also how are the odds against? According to this site http://www.sportsone...rticle/62665328 from 2010-2013 teams had a 62.7% chance of making 4th and short. It's slightly dated I guess, but those odds are hardly against them and I'll take that even with this coaching staff over giving the ball back to the other team, knowing you will have to spend your timeouts and in the best case scenario get the ball back roughly where you just were with less time and no timeouts and lowering your chance to win. Especially when you need two scores in a short amount of time as the Bills did. That is a 37.3% chance of ending the game right then and there. Terrible odds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) :lol: Don't forget this tangent started when OC asked for a name to prove that a GM can only do so much... but of course he's OC'd it into an entirely different discussion. Yeah, I asked for "names" not "name". So, your point that Marrone is sitting "players" he shouldn't be, is actually "player", now isn't it? You pretend like there was this whole string of Pysk's, and Grigerenko's and Armia's sitting down on Buffalo's bench, while we are playing Benoit, McCormack, and Flynn, and if the coach was only smarter, we'd be winning every game because he'd be playing the right "players". Sorry, but, the only tangent that's going on here is yours: there's no way in hell Marrone should be fired because one player isn't playing(and even that is questionable)....when the other starting ~30, on all 3 units, are doing more than any other Bills units have in 10 years. Try again. You raised this entire line of discussion. Now you want to call it a tangent? Fine. But it's Greggy's Tangent, not mine, and all you have is Mike Williams. Edited December 8, 2014 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 That is a 37.3% chance of ending the game right then and there. Terrible odds Better odds than having to make an onside kick (.3% according to this http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/onside-kickoff-success/2014/) which is what you're counting on when you punt the ball with 5 minutes left down two TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Yeah, I asked for "names" not "name". So, your point that Marrone is sitting "players" he shouldn't be, is actually "player", now it's it? You pretend like there was this whole string of Pysk's, and Grigerenko's and Armia's sitting down on Buffalo's bench, while we are playing Benoit, McCormack, and Flynn, and if the coach was only smarter, we'd be winning every game because he'd be playing the right "players". Sorry, but, the only tangent that's going on here is yours: there's no way in hell Marrone should be fired because one player isn't playing(and even that is questionable)....when the other starting ~30, on all 3 units, are doing more than any other Bills units have in 10 years. Try again. You raised this entire line of discussion. Now you want to call it a tangent? Fine. But it's Greggy's Tangent, not mine, and all you have is Mike Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Sorry, but, the only tangent that's going on here is yours: there's no way in hell Marrone should be fired because one player isn't playing(and even that is questionable)....when the other starting ~30, on all 3 units, are doing more than any other Bills units have in 10 years. Show me where I ever said any of this. Once again you're arguing against yourself. And somehow, losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Look at what a kitty McCoy and Reich are punting from midfield down 9 with 6 minutes to go. Only Marrone does it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Better odds than having to make an onside kick (.3% according to this http://www.sportingc...f-success/2014/) which is what you're counting on when you punt the ball with 5 minutes left down two TDs. The on side kick would only happen if we scored a TD. Down 2 TDs was not the time for that desperation play. We still could get one possession to score the first of 2 required TDs. Based on how the offense played most of the game, did anyone have the required confidence that we would get those yards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Look at what a kitty McCoy and Reich are punting from midfield down 9 with 6 minutes to go. Only Marrone does it though. It is still weak and its McCoy It is 100% kniwing youre probably beaten and not wanting to lose worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 The on side kick would only happen if we scored a TD. Down 2 TDs was not the time for that desperation play. We still could get one possession to score the first of 2 required TDs. Based on how the offense played most of the game, did anyone have the required confidence that we would get those yards? Acknowledging how putrid the offense has been then citing league median statistics. It just keeps getting better with these guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 By the way, where are all the "Can't believe Urbik was on the bench for 7 weeks" people? That guy absolutely sucked today. Was Marrone keeping Urbik on the bench a bad coaching decision given today's "effort"? Yeah, there's another "name" for GreggyT's "The Quest for Guys Marrone Should Be Playing": Urbik. We should fire Marrone because he didn't play Urbik, because not playing Urbik is yet another indication that "Marrone is in over his head". (Want more silly arguments from 7+ weeks ago? Many posters on the main board are lucky I only have a database of posts for PPP. Perhaps I'll begin one for here...) As I said, pages ago: this thread is emprically obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Look at what a kitty McCoy and Reich are punting from midfield down 9 with 6 minutes to go. Only Marrone does it though. One thing that needs to be discussed but rarely is here is that from the 50 yard line to the 35 yard line every single yard makes the decision a different one. Punting from midfield versus punting from the 45 versus punting from the 42 versus punting from the 40 are all very different decisions. And each one has ten elements to it, not just yard line and time left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 The on side kick would only happen if we scored a TD. Down 2 TDs was not the time for that desperation play. We still could get one possession to score the first of 2 required TDs. Based on how the offense played most of the game, did anyone have the required confidence that we would get those yards? If down 2 TDs with 5 minutes to go in a game you pretty much know you need to win to have any real chance at the playoffs is not the time for a desperation play then when is the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 By the way, where are all the "Can't believe Urbik was on the bench for 7 weeks" people? That guy absolutely sucked today. Was Marrone keeping Urbik on the bench a bad coaching decision given today's "effort"? Yeah, there's another "name" for GreggyT's "The Quest for Guys Marrone Should Be Playing": Urbik. We should fire Marrone because he didn't play Urbik, because not playing Urbik is yet another indication that "Marrone is in over his head". (Want more silly arguments from 7+ weeks ago? Many posters on the main board are lucky I only have a database of posts for PPP. Perhaps I'll begin one for here...) As I said, pages ago: this thread is emprically obtuse. That's flat wrong. Orton had a lot of time on a lot of passes. We had some decent runs up the middle. Urbik looked awful on that one sack they showed over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Look at what a kitty McCoy and Reich are punting from midfield down 9 with 6 minutes to go. Only Marrone does it though. Punting at midfield is different then from your own end zone. Anyway, their staff is on the same bus ours is, headed out of town. If the Chargers had real fans then I would feel sorry for them because they are a good team that's been bungled a lot, but also overachieved, too. So, I guess it could be a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) That's flat wrong. Orton had a lot of time on a lot of passes. We had some decent runs up the middle. Urbik looked awful on that one sack they showed over and over. Agree. Orton played scared must of the game. For the first three quarters, it seems like he wasn't looking past 10 yards from the line of scrimmage. He looked and then went to the side throws. There was no vertical passing game till the fourth Q Edited December 8, 2014 by Fan in Chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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