mdk Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 There's been much discussion whether a move should be made back to EJ? There's also the larger question of the Bills' future at the QB position. The great NFL QB's (e.g Manning, Brady) have the courage to stay in the pocket, go through their progressions, and take a hit. In the case of the smaller stars (e.g Russell Wilson, Drew Brees), they have great athleticism, awareness, and a fast release. Most agree K.O may not be the Bills long term answer but seems to have toughness. Assuming 'you can't teach guts', does EJ have the right stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuvtalker Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The jury is still deliberating on that one. I personally, do think that he can be successful one day, and at the very least am willing to give him ONE full season to see if he really can be our guy. I think him getting benched could end up being one of the best things to happen to him, since coming here from day one he was given the job on a silver platter and told, "you're our guy". He never really had to fight for the job. Now that he's been served a slice of humble pie, I'm actually excited to see what will happen when he's finally handed the ball again. I liked hearing him say that the next time he's out there, he's going to just let it rip more, and play looser, so we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Now that he's been served a slice of humble pie, I'm actually excited to see what will happen when he's finally handed the ball again. i don't get the impression that ej needed/deserved to be "humbled." if anything, i wish the dude was cockier. Edited November 17, 2014 by Dirtbag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) i don't get the impression that ej needed/deserved to be "humbled." if anything, i wish the dude was cockier. Exactly. Guts? Yes. Mean streak and borderline dickishness that all the greats have/had and that Whaley, in his bye week lunch with the LA Backers, admitted EJ lacks? No. Edited November 17, 2014 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) There's been much discussion whether a move should be made back to EJ? There's also the larger question of the Bills' future at the QB position. The great NFL QB's (e.g Manning, Brady) have the courage to stay in the pocket, go through their progressions, and take a hit. In the case of the smaller stars (e.g Russell Wilson, Drew Brees), they have great athleticism, awareness, and a fast release. Most agree K.O may not be the Bills long term answer but seems to have toughness. Assuming 'you can't teach guts', does EJ have the right stuff? Orton is not the answer. He has proven once again for the fifth time that he’s nothing more than a journeyman who should never be counted on to win an NFL game that matters. Sounds harsh, but it’s not meant to be. I think that the Dolphins gave the blueprint to the Jets and Orton is going to get knocked around this Sunday. He may not even last the whole game. As for Manuel, let’s all agree that the head coach, offensive coordinator and front office decisions on the offensive line had left a project QB like Manuel with no real running game and very predictable offensive game plans for defenses to tee off on. If he's our QB next year, I’d like to see Manuel given a steady offensive line and effective running game. Those two things can make even poorest of QBs look good. BTW, even Peyton Manning and Tom Brady get rattled when their lines aren't protecting them. Edited November 17, 2014 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Orton is not the answer. He has proven once again for the fifth time that he’s nothing more than a journeyman who should never be counted on to win an NFL game that matters. Sounds harsh, but it’s not meant to be. I think that the Dolphins gave the blueprint to the Jets and Orton is going to get knocked around this Sunday. He may not even last the whole game. As for Manuel, let’s all agree that the head coach, offensive coordinator and front office decisions on the offensive line had left a project QB like Manuel with no real running game and very predictable offensive game plans for defenses to tee off on. If he's our QB next year, I’d like to see Manuel given a steady offensive line and effective running game. Those two things can make even poorest of QBs look good. BTW, even Peyton Manning and Tom Brady get rattled when their lines aren't protecting them. Agreed. I think Alex Smith threw for 109 yards yesterday in their win over the Hawks...yet he is seen as a savior of sorts. His line and RB's carry the load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 As for Manuel, let’s all agree that the head coach, offensive coordinator and front office decisions on the offensive line had left a project QB like Manuel with no real running game and very predictable offensive game plans for defenses to tee off on. So EJ gets a break because of our head coach, offensive coordinator and front office ineptness, but Kyle does not? Kyle doesn't need a running game and better offensive game plans too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 So EJ gets a break because of our head coach, offensive coordinator and front office ineptness, but Kyle does not? Kyle doesn't need a running game and better offensive game plans too? KO is a veteran. EJ needs to develop. It's fair. KO is playing a bit better than EJ in the same situation, but we need KO to play significantly better, otherwise the W-L results are about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuvtalker Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) To Dirtbag and Big Cat when I say that EJ was served a slice of humble pie, it was not me saying that EJ was "cocky". I agree that he is a very likeable, humble guy. I just meant that by being benched for the first time in his pro career was a serving of humble pie. Again, making him the 16th player taken off the board, handing him the job on a silver platter, and never having to really compete for the position might have given him the impression that he really didn't have anything to compete for. Edited November 17, 2014 by smuvtalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) So EJ gets a break because of our head coach, offensive coordinator and front office ineptness, but Kyle does not? Kyle doesn't need a running game and better offensive game plans too? The thing with Kyle Orton is that he's nothing more than a stop gap journeyman. I suspect even if he did have time in the pocket, he would eventually fail when the game mattered the most. That's been his calling card for his decade long career. This team will have a new coaching staff and along with that staff they hopefully will have a MUCH improved offensive line. I don't think Orton will be back here in 2015. I think the Bills will sign or trade for a QB with more upside (Bradford, Hoyer...ect) than Orton. That will be their guy unless or until EJ Manuel flips the script and overtakes the new QB with a crazy huge leap forward in his development. Edited November 17, 2014 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) The thing with Kyle Orton is that he's nothing more than a stop gap journeyman. I suspect even if he did have time in the pocket, he would eventually fail when the game mattered the most. That's been his calling card for his decade long career. Hasn't been his MO in Buffalo. Quite the opposite in fact, He hasn't played great, but he hasn't choked ala Tony Romo here. Maybe KC, maybe. This team will have a new coaching staff and along with that staff they hopefully will have a MUCH improved offensive line. I don't think Orton will be back here in 2015. I think the Bills will sign or trade for a QB with more upside (Bradford, Hoyer...ect) than Orton. That will be their guy unless or until EJ Manuel flips the script and overtakes the new QB with a crazy huge leap forward in his development. I hope you are right about the coaching staff, but we'll see. Bradford?? Really?? Didn't we learn our lesson with Kevin Kolb on signing and depending on injury riddled QBs? 59 TDs 38 Ints with a 6.3 YPA 79.3 rate. At least stat wise that's WORSE than Kyle Orton who has 93 TDs 62 Ints and 6.7 YPA 81.1 rate. Stats don't tell the whole story, but really I don't understand the fascination with Bradford on here. Might as well stick with Kyle and EJ if that's the best we can do. Hoyer looks like he could be real deal. Have no idea why the Clowns would not re sign him if they get 9 wins or so if they can. See how the rest of the season plays out, but maybe make a push for Drew Stanton. Cardinals signed Palmer to big contract so maybe he'd be a possibility? Edited November 17, 2014 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Exactly. Guts? Yes. Mean streak and borderline dickishness that all the greats have/had and that Whaley, in his bye week lunch with the LA Backers, admitted EJ lacks? No. this is along the lines of what i have thought about ej for a long time. the kid has every physical tool you could want, along with a great work ethic (so we have been told). but i would really like to see what he would be like if he were to "play mad". to have that chip on his shoulder, to assert himself to the point of having the attitude of "this is my !@#$ing team and you WILL follow me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Any Quarterback running Hackett's scheme will look terrible.... except Peyton Manning who would ignore it and run his own scheme regardless of the OC. Seriously... the offense is so badly conceptulised, designed and put together before you even get to the play calling. It is a joke. EJ is doomed to fail if his "2nd chance" comes in that scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 but i would really like to see what he would be like if he were to "play mad". to have that chip on his shoulder, to assert himself to the point of having the attitude of "this is my !@#$ing team and you WILL follow me!" This is the same kind of comment we often hear on here about coaches. But Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, and Eli Manning don't "play mad". I don't care of EJ plays mad or not, just play well. His leadership is fine as far as I can tell. There are many kinds of leaders. Loudmouth yelling ones and quiet ones. There is no one right way that it has to be done. Any Quarterback running Hackett's scheme will look terrible.... except Peyton Manning who would ignore it and run his own scheme regardless of the OC. Seriously... the offense is so badly conceptulised, designed and put together before you even get to the play calling. It is a joke. EJ is doomed to fail if his "2nd chance" comes in that scheme. I agree with this completely. And that's why I sort of hope EJ doesn't get in anymore. It will ruin him. He'll look horrible due to the badly conceptualized, designed and put together offense. Besides, who is going to make any decisions about him next year anyway? I make this comment hoping that I'm right and Coach Marrone and Hackett Jr. are gone by December 29, 2014. If not, do you trust these guys to be able be able to evaluate a QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I love how we're all cocked-sure that "any" quarterback would look miserable in Hackett's scheme, when our evidence is rookie Manuel, Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel and --the best of all them-- that's right --Kyle Orton. Yep, Hacket sure does have a way of ruining QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Orton is not the answer. He has proven once again for the fifth time that he’s nothing more than a journeyman who should never be counted on to win an NFL game that matters. Sounds harsh, but it’s not meant to be. Speaking of journey men... Fitz has hit the bench in Houston. Maybe he can come back, ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 There's been much discussion whether a move should be made back to EJ? There's also the larger question of the Bills' future at the QB position. The great NFL QB's (e.g Manning, Brady) have the courage to stay in the pocket, go through their progressions, and take a hit. In the case of the smaller stars (e.g Russell Wilson, Drew Brees), they have great athleticism, awareness, and a fast release. Most agree K.O may not be the Bills long term answer but seems to have toughness. Assuming 'you can't teach guts', does EJ have the right stuff? No. He lacks every possible intangible you can name that makes a great NFL QB great. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 No. He lacks every possible intangible you can name that makes a great NFL QB great. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 i don't get the impression that ej needed/deserved to be "humbled." if anything, i wish the dude was cockier. Well stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 No. He lacks every possible intangible you can name that makes a great NFL QB great. Move on. Every one? So seeing as you know, do enlighten us all what every intangible is. And please, refrain from dipping into the Kiper/Mayock pot that you hear on the television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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