PaattMaann Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Why "stubborn"? Why not "inept" or "incompetent"? Between last year's left-guard debacle and this year's idiocy, I don't understand why Marrone gets any support at all. What's to like? Really, I ask in earnest. What has he done that any NFL position coach, chosen at random, could not do? At best, he's like Orton: he won't lose you games. But can't we do better than that? Imagine a coach that actually helped WIN games. Am I missing something? What your "missing" is the wide held NFL belief that continuity breeds success....firing your staff after every three years (or worse, 2) predictably leads to disaster in the NFL.... Even "bad" coaches can build winning teams for years....they need a chance to have players playing in the same systems on offense and defense so they can add nuances to both that players can understand and handle...which leads to wins Wins leads to confidence, and that leads to more wins Constant turnover leads to learning and thinking instead of playing and reacting....I've seen enough things of Marrone that I like (accountability, the right attitude of "show me the baby", getting most players to buy in) that makes me want to continue this direction (he is by no means the best coach or anywhere near the best coach in the league - but continuity trumps all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 What your "missing" is the wide held NFL belief that continuity breeds success....firing your staff after every three years (or worse, 2) predictably leads to disaster in the NFL.... Even "bad" coaches can build winning teams for years....they need a chance to have players playing in the same systems on offense and defense so they can add nuances to both that players can understand and handle...which leads to wins Wins leads to confidence, and that leads to more wins Constant turnover leads to learning and thinking instead of playing and reacting....I've seen enough things of Marrone that I like (accountability, the right attitude of "show me the baby", getting most players to buy in) that makes me want to continue this direction (he is by no means the best coach or anywhere near the best coach in the league - but continuity trumps all) Baloney. Competence trumps all, and Marrone hasn't displayed that on all fronts. Since we're on a continuity topic, let's rehash the past Bills failed HCs Greggo - DC background - solid defenses, but couldn't get offense to function. Mularkey - OC background - got better play from offense, but couldn't get defense to function Jauron - DC background - solid defenses, but couldn't get offense to function to save his life Gailey - OC background - worked a miracle with the mess he had on offense, but couldn't get defense to function Marrone - OC background - only reason team has a winning record is due to defense. Offense, despite having best talent in a while is a clear weak spot. Weird, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 What your "missing" is the wide held NFL belief that continuity breeds success....firing your staff after every three years (or worse, 2) predictably leads to disaster in the NFL.... Even "bad" coaches can build winning teams for years....they need a chance to have players playing in the same systems on offense and defense so they can add nuances to both that players can understand and handle...which leads to wins Wins leads to confidence, and that leads to more wins Constant turnover leads to learning and thinking instead of playing and reacting....I've seen enough things of Marrone that I like (accountability, the right attitude of "show me the baby", getting most players to buy in) that makes me want to continue this direction (he is by no means the best coach or anywhere near the best coach in the league - but continuity trumps all) but there are instances where coaches come in and work with the existing schemes and make tweaks to maximize use of the talent on a roster. other times guys burn the whole thing down and we end up swapping 34 to 43 to 34 to 43 and on and on, never building talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Baloney. Competence trumps all, and Marrone hasn't displayed that on all fronts. Since we're on a continuity topic, let's rehash the past Bills failed HCs Greggo - DC background - solid defenses, but couldn't get offense to function. Mularkey - OC background - got better play from offense, but couldn't get defense to function Jauron - DC background - solid defenses, but couldn't get offense to function to save his life Gailey - OC background - worked a miracle with the mess he had on offense, but couldn't get defense to function Marrone - OC background - only reason team has a winning record is due to defense. Offense, despite having best talent in a while is a clear weak spot. Weird, right? yeah - funny how that's working out. If only that god damned pattern continued with Marrone on offense with the defense we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Do you really think scenario, even if true, absolves Marrone? Do you mean to say that it's worth playing a rookie not close to ready--and suffer badly for it--just to make a point about effort in training camp? Maybe you bench the better player for a game to make your point, but not half the season. A competent coach doesn't need to hurt the team badly to motivate players. Looking from the outside, I would always play the best players, but only they care or are prepared. So I would do what Marrone did and you bet your ass players like Bryant, Charles, Wynn, appreciate the meritocracy in place, otherwise they would never see the field with the monster they have in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Baloney. Competence trumps all, and Marrone hasn't displayed that on all fronts. Since we're on a continuity topic, let's rehash the past Bills failed HCs Greggo - DC background - solid defenses, but couldn't get offense to function. Mularkey - OC background - got better play from offense, but couldn't get defense to function Jauron - DC background - solid defenses, but couldn't get offense to function to save his life Gailey - OC background - worked a miracle with the mess he had on offense, but couldn't get defense to function Marrone - OC background - only reason team has a winning record is due to defense. Offense, despite having best talent in a while is a clear weak spot. Weird, right? yea what I see here is a bunch of coaches that failed and we bailed...that is EXACTLY the lack on continuity I was referring to...giving a guy 2-3 years and bailing when they fail (but HAVE shown some modicum of success) is not continuity and has been a major contribution to lack of success and certainly not sustained success over the past decade plus... im not making the case for keeping any of those particular guys - thats an argument for another day - im making the case for keeping the regime we currently have if we finish this season with a winning record, thats the goal in the NFL - to win games....its proven very difficult to do when you keep changing over the system/coaches but there are instances where coaches come in and work with the existing schemes and make tweaks to maximize use of the talent on a roster. other times guys burn the whole thing down and we end up swapping 34 to 43 to 34 to 43 and on and on, never building talent. there havent been instances HERE where we have had a coaching change and minor tweaks, its all system overhaul....which has contributed to the terrible play on the field for the past decade.... any "big name" coach that people are clamoring for would certainly be bringing in overhaul and not just "tweaking" the system... if it works (at the end of the year, lets judge) im advocating for keeping the regime in place....and really, even if we finish at 7-9, i THINK im still in favor of giving it another year to see if they can show the baby Edited November 12, 2014 by PaattMaann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 yea what I see here is a bunch of coaches that failed and we bailed...that is EXACTLY the lack on continuity I was referring to...giving a guy 2-3 years and bailing when they fail (but HAVE shown some modicum of success) is not continuity and has been a major contribution to lack of success and certainly not sustained success over the past decade plus... im not making the case for keeping any of those particular guys - thats an argument for another day - im making the case for keeping the regime we currently have if we finish this season with a winning record, thats the goal in the NFL - to win games....its proven very difficult to do when you keep changing over the system/coaches there havent been instances HERE where we have had a coaching change and minor tweaks, its all system overhaul....which has contributed to the terrible play on the field for the past decade.... any "big name" coach that people are clamoring for would certainly be bringing in overhaul and not just "tweaking" the system... if it works (at the end of the year, lets judge) im advocating for keeping the regime in place....and really, even if we finish at 7-9, i THINK im still in favor of giving it another year to see if they can show the baby It's hard to see how all those firings were bad decisions, when it reality the hirings were bad decisions. It's also hard to project how OBD was run under Wilson to how things will be handled under Pegula. But it's easy to differentiate competence from continuity. The reason successful coaches are able to maintain continuity is because they're usually competent. Let's hope we're past the usual Wilson era of perpetual firings following mind numbing hirings. Marrone's hiring was a half foot in the old regime, so I'm not going to give him a pass. So far, he hasn't proven his competence yet to earn the continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 It's hard to see how all those firings were bad decisions, when it reality the hirings were bad decisions. It's also hard to project how OBD was run under Wilson to how things will be handled under Pegula. But it's easy to differentiate competence from continuity. The reason successful coaches are able to maintain continuity is because they're usually competent. Let's hope we're past the usual Wilson era of perpetual firings following mind numbing hirings. Marrone's hiring was a half foot in the old regime, so I'm not going to give him a pass. So far, he hasn't proven his competence yet to earn the continuity. this I agree with completely...nice post and my bottom line is, im waiting until the seasons over before I pass judgement on Marrone regime....two years, isnt A LOT of time in the NFL regardless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 The KC game is the classic NFL loss. You can pick five or six or fifty different plays that could have changed the game. Why do teams with franchise QBs win? Because the franchise QBs are more likely to hit the throw to win the game, and that means that those two silly fumbles, and those four or five wimpy fourth-down decisions....don't matter. This is a sad state of affairs ... the teams need a franchise QB because the coaches are not good enough without one. Fumbles happen ... but in game decisions are what HC are paid to do. I do not know why Marrone is not called out be the media on this stuff more during press conferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Perhaps Marrone's success as offensive coordinator at New Orleans is related to having Drew Brees as quarterback. Much like Tom Brady being quarterback while the assistant coaches get jobs all over the NFL and pretty much stink after leaving New England. Perhaps Marrone is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 This is good too. Worth looking. The plays were there to be made on 3rd and 4th down. http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/11/nathaniel_hackett_says_kansas_city_chiefs_challenged_kyle_orton_buffalo_bills_to.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Perhaps Marrone's success as offensive coordinator at New Orleans is related to having Drew Brees as quarterback. Much like Tom Brady being quarterback while the assistant coaches get jobs all over the NFL and pretty much stink after leaving New England. Perhaps Marrone is overrated. I was LMAO when Soloman Wilcots said, during the CBS telecast, that Marrone was a riverboat gambler because he was the "OC" under Sean Payton. I've seen Sean Payton and many other aggressive NFL HCs go for it on 4th and short multiple times. Marrone is the antithesis of a riverboat gambler. Edited November 12, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I was LMAO when Soloman Wilcots said, during the CBStelecast, that Marrone was a riverboat gambler because he was the "OC" under Sean Payton. I've seen Sean Payton and many other aggressive NFL HCs go for it on 4th and short multiple times. Marrone is the antithesis of a riverboat gambler. Yes, that was a comical headsratcher of an observation. Wonder if that was a clueless PA who feed him the tidbit, or he decided to go on a limb on his own? Can you imagine Marrone starting off a half with an onside kick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Yes, that was a comical headsratcher of an observation. Wonder if that was a clueless PA who feed him the tidbit, or he decided to go on a limb on his own? Can you imagine Marrone starting off a half with an onside kick? I can't at all. Have the Bills done a fake punt since Marrone was HC last year? I cannot recall any instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Wilcots is a time-filler, nothing more. He fills up the time between plays reciting cliches we all know, and when he tries to get specific he's usually wrong. I don't think I heard Wilcots mention Hackett even once during the game. All the references to play calling were about Marrone, who doesn't call the plays although I'm sure does make the decision whether to go for it on fourth down. I actually think the Chiefs game was Hackett's best so far. The pulling linemen (see the All-22 Review), the variety of play calls all were good moves. Hackett just didn't compensate when it was clear that Orton was having a sub-par game. Too many situations where it was Orton success or bust, and we busted. Edited November 12, 2014 by Utah John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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