300 YD Passing: Orton 1 Manuel 0

[IDBillzFan]

It's consistently amazing to me how many people feel the need to find any opportunity to remind people they were right about something.

[Don't stop billievein]

Ok so if its so damn easy to throw for 300 yards in a game these days...why hasn't EJ ever done it?

 

Checkmate.

don't remember saying anything about it being easy, my point was that 300 yard games aren't the end all be all to winning!!! Yes when your qb throws for a lot of yards its usually helpful but there have been qbs to throw for 400 yards and threw a pick 6 in overtime that lost the game!(tony romo is a perfect example of this) Edited October 6, 2014 by Don't stop billievein

[H2o]

Actually Orton has already done it several times in his career.

 

But to see it happen in his very first game as a Bill, even after a slow start and on the road, was very telling - considering that EJ has never had a 300 yard game in his career.

 

Called this the other day when there was a thread as to whom would be the Bills' next 300 yard passer. Orton, after being with the team for only 5 weeks, comes in and handles his business. This make EJ look pretty bad imo.

[C.Biscuit97]

300 yards passing is such an outdated stat. Tom Brady had 292 yards. So his performance wasn't as good as Orton's? EJ needed 4 more yards against Carolina. That means he was that much better?

 

Aaron Rodgers had 156 on Thursday but had 3 tds. I'll take 156 yards and 3 tds over 300 and 1 anyday of the week. Points, not yards, win games. Any other game, with an average kicker, we lose with 300 yards. As Bills fans, we deserve to win games like that, but shut up about 300 yards. It's meaningless except in fantasy football.

[RuntheDamnBall]

To me, 300 yards says how much your team is relying on the QB. 300 yards with a stellar running game means you probably dominated -- or were in a shootout. 300 yards with no running game could mean your QB helped out and was able to make them pay for stacking the box. But it could also mean you are not getting much accomplished on offense, are losing the game, and need to air it out to make up the points.

 

It's some combo of the latter two with yesterday's figure, no?

 

I'm glad they were able to get it done and get the win.

[l< j]

Last week we were talking about the make-able plays that EJ left on the table, either with poor throws or poor decision making (timidity and/or bad reads; afraid to make a throw or didn't see a throw that was there). The All-22 analyses seemed to bear that out. I think there was near-consensus on that point.

 

So did Orton leave any or many plays on the table? He was definitely more decisive. My guess is he was also better and probably much better at seeing the open or coming open receivers. Open question, no agenda.

 

kj

[C.Biscuit97]

Called this the other day when there was a thread as to whom would be the Bills' next 300 yard passer. Orton, after being with the team for only 5 weeks, comes in and handles his business. This make EJ look pretty bad imo.

 

Again, EJ had 296 in his 2nd ever NFL game after missing half of his first NFL training camp. That's more impressive than a 10 year vet doing it.

 

We won, barely, why try to bash EJ?

[Don't stop billievein]

It's consistently amazing to me how many people feel the need to find any opportunity to remind people they were right about something.

so true Edited October 6, 2014 by Don't stop billievein

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Last week we were talking about the make-able plays that EJ left on the table, either with poor throws or poor decision making (timidity and/or bad reads; afraid to make a throw or didn't see a throw that was there). The All-22 analyses seemed to bear that out. I think there was near-consensus on that point.

 

So did Orton leave any or many plays on the table? He was definitely more decisive. My guess is he was also better and probably much better at seeing the open or coming open receivers. Open question, no agenda.

 

kj

 

Sure orton left plays out there. The pick 6 to the flat wasn't a spectacular defensive play it was a poor, slow, late, inaccurate throw. To name one...

 

Thankfully Detroit's kicking game choked and Carpenter is money.

 

But again... Marrone balled out and made the switch. Orton has a w. Hackett was in the booth, Manuel was on the bench. Until proven otherwise this is the winning formula- so like it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[H2o]

Again, EJ had 296 in his 2nd ever NFL game after missing half of his first NFL training camp. That's more impressive than a 10 year vet doing it.

 

We won, barely, why try to bash EJ?

 

I understand your point, but I'm talking about right now. EJ had the same weapons, but couldn't put it together on the field. EJ has also been in this offensive system for 2 years now where Orton has only been on board for 5 weeks or so. For Kyle to come in and have the performance he had yesterday makes EJ look bad, imo, from the standpoint of just not being able to get it done. Hopefully the time on the bench serves him well and he comes back improved, but those things don't usually tend to happen.

[sjjr]

The next few games will either validate the Orton decision or make it look pretty bad. We'll see...

 

Go Bills

[C.Biscuit97]

I understand your point, but I'm talking about right now. EJ had the same weapons, but couldn't put it together on the field. EJ has also been in this offensive system for 2 years now where Orton has only been on board for 5 weeks or so. For Kyle to come in and have the performance he had yesterday makes EJ look bad, imo, from the standpoint of just not being able to get it done. Hopefully the time on the bench serves him well and he comes back improved, but those things don't usually tend to happen.

 

Fair enough. I just rather have points than yards. That was a great defensive performance that nearly got wasted if the Lions had a kicker. A lot of teams love teh bend but don't break defense and will give up yards to protect the endzone. One td isn't going to beat a ton of teams.

 

And I think it's more on Hackett than anyone.

[Tolstoy]

My own two cents:

 

I was really impressed with Orton yesterday. I am not about to anoint him the Bills QB of the future (don't we need to see a lot more games to do that?), but he brought quite a bit to the QB position that EJ has not yet managed to develop:

• Command and authority in the huddle. Maybe it was just me, but when Orton walked up the huddle and barked out the play, there was decisiveness and authority in his bearing. This could be just my perception, but if it is true, it makes a big difference for leadership in any group. People need a leader they can trust, whom they think knows what he is doing. The confidence of the leader rubs off on everyone.
  
• He released the ball quickly, with a few exceptions.
  
• He spread the ball around to a lot of targets. This keeps defenses honest, and keeps everyone on your own team in the game, feeling like they are contributing to the team.
  
• He threw some difficult throws with accuracy (down the middle, sideline, and long ball to Goodwin).
  
• He did not get discouraged by his failures (pick six), but overcame it and helped the team to victory.
  
• He defeated a team that has the #1 defense in the NFL, with a ferocious D-line, in their own stadium. And he did it in his first start with the team. That is extremely difficult to do, and deserves high praise.
  

As for EJ, I really hope the kid can develop and become our starting QB again--both for his sake and ours. However, he needs to develop some of these above-named qualities before he can become a successful starting QB. I, for one, am tired of losing every year. If Orton can be a complimentary player and bring this team to the playoffs, I support him. So what if he is 31 and has been kicked around a lot. Who cares? Doesn't he deserve a chance to turn his career around? EJ can play backup this year, and see if things change for him next year.

[C.Biscuit97]

My own two cents:

 

I was really impressed with Orton yesterday. I am not about to anoint him the Bills QB of the future (don't we need to see a lot more games to do that?), but he brought quite a bit to the QB position that EJ has not yet managed to develop:

• Command and authority in the huddle. Maybe it was just me, but when Orton walked up the huddle and barked out the play, there was decisiveness and authority in his bearing. This could be just my perception, but if it is true, it makes a big difference for leadership in any group. People need a leader they can trust, whom they think knows what he is doing. The confidence of the leader rubs off on everyone.
  
• He released the ball quickly, with a few exceptions.
  
• He spread the ball around to a lot of targets. This keeps defenses honest, and keeps everyone on your own team in the game, feeling like they are contributing to the team.
  
• He threw some difficult throws with accuracy (down the middle, sideline, and long ball to Goodwin).
  
• He did not get discouraged by his failures (pick six), but overcame it and helped the team to victory.
  
• He defeated a team that has the #1 defense in the NFL, with a ferocious D-line, in their own stadium. And he did it in his first start with the team. That is extremely difficult to do, and deserves high praise.
  

As for EJ, I really hope the kid can develop and become our starting QB again--both for his sake and ours. However, he needs to develop some of these above-named qualities before he can become a successful starting QB. I, for one, am tired of losing every year. If Orton can be a complimentary player and bring this team to the playoffs, I support him. So what if he is 31 and has been kicked around a lot. Who cares? Doesn't he deserve a chance to turn his career around? EJ can play backup this year, and see if things change for him next year.

 

That's a quality post. We need more games to fully evaulate obviously. Orton carries himself like a 10 year vet. I just think this is similar to Fitz. A servicable starter where you are limited. Hopefully, Orton helps lead us to 3+ tds on Sunday.

[dave mcbride]

 

That's a quality post. We need more games to fully evaulate obviously. Orton carries himself like a 10 year vet. I just think this is similar to Fitz. A servicable starter where you are limited. Hopefully, Orton helps lead us to 3+ tds on Sunday.

I don't know about the Fitz comparison. Orton clearly has a better arm and more accuracy than Fitz, and he can make more throws. Rich Gannon comes to mind as the high-ceiling comparison (another 4th round pick who did very little until he was in his 30s). I don't know if he'll reach that ceiling -- Gannon was phenomenal for the Raiders from 1999-2002 -- but plays more like Gannon than Fitz. And I like Fitz.

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't know about the Fitz comparison. Orton clearly has a better arm and more accuracy than Fitz, and he can make more throws. Rich Gannon comes to mind as the high-ceiling comparison (another 4th round pick who did very little until he was in his 30s). I don't know if he'll reach that ceiling -- Gannon was phenomenal for the Raiders from 1999-2002 -- but plays more like Gannon than Fitz. And I like Fitz.

 

I mean more that there is a reason Orton and Fitz bounce around. They are limited. Orton has a better arm but is less mobile. I think he is godo between the 20s but struggles to put up points. That's why he is on his 4th team. Hopefully, he can use the weapons here and take his game to the next level.

[dave mcbride]

I mean more that there is a reason Orton and Fitz bounce around. They are limited. Orton has a better arm but is less mobile. I think he is godo between the 20s but struggles to put up points. That's why he is on his 4th team. Hopefully, he can use the weapons here and take his game to the next level.

I hope so too, obviously, and I have limited expectations. But Gannon bounced around too. You just never know. Orton has real physical skill (more than Holcomb and Fitz), and you just hope that all of the experience that he's accumulated over the years pushes him to the next level. We shall see. Next week will be very tough.

[Storm Front]

How many 300 yd. passing games did the original Captain Check Down have, if any?

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

How many 300 yd. passing games did the original Captain Check Down have, if any?

Drew Bledsoe YPG average was under 300 YPG

 

in Buffalo

[A Dog Named Kelso]

This is true and this is why playing Orton right now is a good idea - the best idea, really.

 

Whether or not EJ stands a chance later on is something people have pretty much made clear their stance on, and I tend to side with patience and evidence with young players over the blanket statements, eye tests, proclamations of "never," etc. I just don't understand why it needs to be crusaded over at every turn.

 

 

And would Orton have done it, or won, without Sammy pulling in an amazing catch on a ball that no one can say he had any business catching?

 

I understand what you're saying, and I think it's a net positive that Orton got 300 yards, but it's also a stat that demonstrates what a team game this is.

 

 

That is not what he was saying at all.

 

And "checkmate" usually means you've proven something. Might want to revisit the board.

 

The point is silly to bring up. Would the Bills have won? May not, but EJ would not have won the Chicago game with his receivers make fabulous catches also. It is a team game and all the players are suppose to make plays. The problem is it seemed the receivers were not willing to do that for EJ the prior two games.

 

The point of the the 300 yard game is to show that your QB can move the team when the running game is not working, not they they are an Elite QB. I am sure, if EJ was not so coached up to be risk averse, he would have had a 300 yard game by now. That is something he will hopefully learn from his time behind Orton.