Jimmy Graham, Tight End

[NoSaint]

Just by looking at the low amount of the TE franchise tag it would seem that elite TEs are underrepresented.

 

If you were ranking pass catchers, WR and TE, where would Graham rank? Maybe I'm over valuing his worth.

 

Look at the contracts tight ends get- gronk got 9.5m while mike Wallace gets 12m. In 2010 Davis set the TE record with a 5 year 37m deal (obviously since surpassed) while megatron and Larry fitz are over 100m total value.

 

The nfl values WRs more - that's why you see them picked top 5 regularly while tight ends rarely go top 10. I'm not sure I agree with the size of the gap but that's where nfl GMs have negotiated it on the open market and in the draft- WRs get more of a teams resources.

 

Graham's contract will probably end up between 5-10 among pass catchers. I'd guess 7th behind Vincent Jackson but ahead of Brandon Marshall. If you pull what I think is a bad contract for mike Wallace that'd be 6th- probably about fair.

[Mr. WEO]

Graham has every right to fight for every last cent that he can get, he has to work under the constraints of the cap and collective bargaining agreement and his only leverage is not playing/holding out. He should be paid according to where he lines up, if he is a TE 30% of the time then his tag number should be 70% of WR top five and 30% of TE top five.

 

The arbitrator has confirmed what many had suspected way back when Graham started down this hopeless crusade--that such a precedent will never be established.

[machine gun kelly]

Gronk's,contract is $9 mil avg on paper only. Look it up. So much of it is backloaded, he's not really making that so far. He recvd 16 mil guaranteed I'm guessing Graham will get 8 mil for 5 years with around the same guaranteed.

 

The other top TE are making 7-7.25 mil per yr with less guaranteed.

 

He's not a WR, he's a TE. He may be the best in the game, but still is a TE.

[Kirby Jackson]

Gronk's,contract is $9 mil avg on paper only. Look it up. So much of it is backloaded, he's not really making that so far. He recvd 16 mil guaranteed I'm guessing Graham will get 8 mil for 5 years with around the same guaranteed.

 

The other top TE are making 7-7.25 mil per yr with less guaranteed.

 

He's not a WR, he's a TE. He may be the best in the game, but still is a TE.

Graham has a standing offer on the table from the Saints at $9.5M per.

[Kirby Jackson]

It looks like 4 years, $40M with $21M guaranteed. I thought that the guaranteed $'s would be a little higher.

[Roger Goodell]

They lump all OL so they should lump all pass catchers as well.

 

The league feels that the distinctions made in the CBA are important for the benefit of both players and teams. We agree with the recent arbitration ruling.

[NoSaint]

It looks like 4 years, $40M with $21M guaranteed. I thought that the guaranteed $'s would be a little higher.

 

i wouldve guessed mid 20s. good deal. right about where he was expected. top of the TEs but behind the top 5 wrs

[C.Biscuit97]

No league craps on it's players more than the NFL. Who gives a crap what position he plays. He led the NFL in tds. Tight end is probably a more difficult position to play.

 

If the players were smart, they would find this stupid position franchise tags. I hope the retired players win multiple lawsuits against the greedy NFL. They treat players like pieces of meat.

 

 

 

i wouldve guessed mid 20s. good deal. right about where he was expected. top of the TEs but behind the top 5 wrs

 

I always appreciate your perspective but why should he get paid less than receivers when he out produces them at a fair more physically demanding position?

[Kirby Jackson]

i wouldve guessed mid 20s. good deal. right about where he was expected. top of the TEs but behind the top 5 wrs

Yeah, Vernon Davis was at $23M. I was thinking about $25M for JG. It is a decent deal for both sides (even though I kind of agree with C Biscuit).

 

Would you rather have 4 years and $32M guaranteed or 4 years and $40M with only $21M guaranteed? One player is Jimmy Graham and one player is Channing Frye!!

[NoSaint]

I always appreciate your perspective but why should he get paid less than receivers when he out produces them at a fair more physically demanding position?

 

 

ill say he is the rarity that deserves to be very high in the receivers list.

 

generally speaking - would you rather have graham, or megatron? larry fitzgerald in his prime, with a qb? can you imagine what drew brees would do with those guys?

 

while grahams job may be more physically taxing, that can be a con (takes more hits and isnt particularly good at the blocking side), hes surely lacking some interesting physical dynamics that calvin johnson brings to the table outside (ie speed and agility).... ill take the ELITE wide receiver every time. thats not to say the ELITE tightends dont match up with the very good to great wideouts. its just a shift down in what resources id dedicate.

 

though hes the best TE out there, i wouldnt call him the best passing game threat. generally speaking GMs seem to agree when you look at pay scale and draft position - but these guys are closing the gap with their skills.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

 

ill say he is the rarity that deserves to be very high in the receivers list.

 

generally speaking - would you rather have graham, or megatron? larry fitzgerald in his prime, with a qb? can you imagine what drew brees would do with those guys?

 

while grahams job may be more physically taxing, that can be a con (takes more hits and isnt particularly good at the blocking side), hes surely lacking some interesting physical dynamics that calvin johnson brings to the table outside (ie speed and agility).... ill take the ELITE wide receiver every time. thats not to say the ELITE tightends dont match up with the very good to great wideouts. its just a shift down in what resources id dedicate.

 

though hes the best TE out there, i wouldnt call him the best passing game threat. generally speaking GMs seem to agree when you look at pay scale and draft position - but these guys are closing the gap with their skills.

 

Personally, I thought the receiver position has been completely overrated. It's such a dependent position. A great receiver rarely wins you games single handedly. History is filled with great Wrs who haven't won SBs. Hell, Calvin Johnson and Firzgerald struggle to even get a winning record.

 

Obviously with the new rules, it helps increase the value of Wrs. But I'd take Graham and a healthy Gronk over any receiver besides Johnson. They are complete mismatches and they allow for a lot of easy completions for Qbs.

 

I hope Sammy turns out to be great. But I'd trade him in a second for Graham. That's why I think position slotting is stupid. IMO, Graham is the 2nd most dangerous receiving threat in the NFL next to Johnson. He wasn't even healthy last year and still led in touchdowns! He's a beast.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Personally, I thought the receiver position has been completely overrated. It's such a dependent position. A great receiver rarely wins you games single handedly. History is filled with great Wrs who haven't won SBs. Hell, Calvin Johnson and Firzgerald struggle to even get a winning record.

 

Obviously with the new rules, it helps increase the value of Wrs. But I'd take Graham and a healthy Gronk over any receiver besides Johnson. They are complete mismatches and they allow for a lot of easy completions for Qbs.

 

I hope Sammy turns out to be great. But I'd trade him in a second for Graham. That's why I think position slotting is stupid. IMO, Graham is the 2nd most dangerous receiving threat in the NFL next to Johnson. He wasn't even healthy last year and still led in touchdowns! He's a beast.

The problem with Graham is that he can be taken out of games. When teams have put corners on him he has disappeared. He has been bad in big games too. I know a lot of the people here in NOLA were a little indifferent about this extension after his performances vs. Seattle.

 

I like Graham but I would certainly not take him over a top WR. He is a good red zone target and can make plays down the middle but he is more of a possession guy. Even in games where he is great he needs a lot of targets to make an impact. Some WR can be the difference in a game with 1-2 touches because they can score from anywhere.

[C.Biscuit97]

The problem with Graham is that he can be taken out of games. When teams have put corners on him he has disappeared. He has been bad in big games too. I know a lot of the people here in NOLA were a little indifferent about this extension after his performances vs. Seattle.

 

I like Graham but I would certainly not take him over a top WR. He is a good red zone target and can make plays down the middle but he is more of a possession guy. Even in games where he is great he needs a lot of targets to make an impact. Some WR can be the difference in a game with 1-2 touches because they can score from anywhere.

 

Your point about receivers being more of a home run threat is a good one. However, I love tds anyway they come. Graham has 36 tds (while missing games) in the last 3 years. Johnson has 33.

 

The Seattle game is an outliner. Their defense is freaky. They embarrassed Peyton Manning. With all the attention Graham got, IMO, it's more of a criticism of their wide receivers.

 

I will take Calvin over everyone. But IMO, having a Graham or Gronk is the next best thing.