Kellyto83TD Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Good he IS A TE. Just because they have become more athletic at the position, doesn't change the position. he doesn't want to report fine, fine his ass to the maximum level and let his ass sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I think that what he is saying is that the long term contract that Graham is about to get (they are saying $10M a yearish) and Vernon Davis' new contract coming will spike the tag number. If you substantially inflate the value of 2 contracts the average value of the top 5 will jump. Are you sure that they're going to give them big long term deals when they can franchise them and keep them for significantly less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 the way you fix that is getting guys like jimmy counted in the TE tag. Suddenly the top 5 will be guys like Jimmy, Gronk, Vernon Davis etc... and they will simply be on fair market deals that they agreed to. Agreed and agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Are you sure that they're going to give them big long term deals when they can franchise them and keep them for significantly less? That has always been the plan. Graham has a multi-year deal at $9.5M per on the table. I am going to guess that he gets a little more than that out of them. I am thinking something like 4-5 years at $10M per. The reason that he wanted the WR tag wasn't necessarily to play under it but for leverage in his negotiation. He could have always threatened to play for $12.3M if their long term offer was $9.5. Now that he has the $7M tag he is less likely to do so. Edited July 5, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 He should sign the offer and show up to camp, but refuse to line up in the slot or outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRQ_BillsFan Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Which leads to if they don't sign him does he pull a Bird and sit out until the last minute. That no negotiations after an early date and then for all of next year is dumb. Is it even still the same in the new CBA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 He should sign the offer and show up to camp, but refuse to line up in the slot or outside. That sounds like a way to show gratitude for being able to play in the NFL... Millionaires fighting over more millions... I'm sure that by refusing to line up in certain formations, he would find a huge contract... Oh wait- probably just get labeled as a pissy pants cry baby- which is exactly what he would be by doing so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 He should sign the offer and show up to camp, but refuse to line up in the slot or outside. That wasn't my first thought .But funny to consider. When Brees calls the audible and Graham wont shift. just glares at Brees Ha ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 That sounds like a way to show gratitude for being able to play in the NFL... Millionaires fighting over more millions... I'm sure that by refusing to line up in certain formations, he would find a huge contract... Oh wait- probably just get labeled as a pissy pants cry baby- which is exactly what he would be by doing so... Why do people take the side of billionaire owners over the millionaire players? The players are the ones giving their bodies up for our enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Why do people take the side of billionaire owners over the millionaire players? The players are the ones giving their bodies up for our enjoyment. I wasn't taking the side of either... I am saying that these men are playing a game for millions of dollars... Enjoy it... I also was trying to point out how foolish of a notion it was that someone suggested he not line up in the slot or split out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Why do people take the side of billionaire owners over the millionaire players? The players are the ones giving their bodies up for our enjoyment. Thats an interesting thought..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) I think that what he is saying is that the long term contract that Graham is about to get (they are saying $10M a yearish) and Vernon Davis' new contract coming will spike the tag number. If you substantially inflate the value of 2 contracts the average value of the top 5 will jump. Very much that. And pairing that sentiment with the top 5 all being jimmy graham style tight ends. Simply being the best of the 5 doesn't make it a broken system - it was designed to be fluid and adjust as the league values different positions in different manners. The top guy at any spot will be underpaid by the tag by definition of what the tag is. Why do people take the side of billionaire owners over the millionaire players? The players are the ones giving their bodies up for our enjoyment. Has nothing to do with siding. Tom bensons dishing out money to the cap every year. Why do we care if he gives jimmy 10 and a LB 2 or jimmy 9 and another LB 3? Are you sure that they're going to give them big long term deals when they can franchise them and keep them for significantly less? Ask the same question for the top 2-3 guys at any position. The average of the top 5 for only 1 year is always financially better for the team as long as the player is willing to show up and work. Edited July 5, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Graham has every right to fight for every last cent that he can get, he has to work under the constraints of the cap and collective bargaining agreement and his only leverage is not playing/holding out. He should be paid according to where he lines up, if he is a TE 30% of the time then his tag number should be 70% of WR top five and 30% of TE top five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Graham has every right to fight for every last cent that he can get, he has to work under the constraints of the cap and collective bargaining agreement and his only leverage is not playing/holding out. He should be paid according to where he lines up, if he is a TE 30% of the time then his tag number should be 70% of WR top five and 30% of TE top five. 3 of the top 5 tight ends lineup outside over 50% of the time (I'd have to double check if that was 2012 or 2013). All of the top 5 line up outside considerably. Why shouldn't those be his comparable contracts? Edited July 5, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Graham has every right to fight for every last cent that he can get, he has to work under the constraints of the cap and collective bargaining agreement and his only leverage is not playing/holding out. He should be paid according to where he lines up, if he is a TE 30% of the time then his tag number should be 70% of WR top five and 30% of TE top five. That opens the door for some crazy crap... Pass catching RB's, etc... Don't they loop all offensive linemen together for tag purposes?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 That opens the door for some crazy crap... Pass catching RB's, etc...Don't they loop all offensive linemen together for tag purposes?? They lump all OL so they should lump all pass catchers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) They lump all OL so they should lump all pass catchers as well. What you'd essentially be creating is a situation where tight ends would see the tag as often as guards or centers. Currently we have pass catching tight ends setting the scale for fellow pass catching tight ends. Do you think graham has more in common with megatron and mike Wallace than gronk and Vernon Davis? How does yours better the situation? Edited July 6, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Graham, VD, Gronk have more in common with top WR than their fellow TEs. If they were lumped together the elite TEs would get tagged and paid appropriately. Franchise tags should only be used for elite talent and pay them somewhat market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Graham, VD, Gronk have more in common with top WR than their fellow TEs. If they were lumped together the elite TEs would get tagged and paid appropriately. Franchise tags should only be used for elite talent and pay them somewhat market value. That's how it works now. Graham's franchise tag is the average of the top pass catching tightends - guys like gronk and Davis. It's the top 5 paid at his position. So he is getting exactly what you are advocating but I'm not sure you realize that the nfl pays those guys considerably less than wide receivers. There are no blocking specialists in his tag calculation. Edited July 6, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Just by looking at the low amount of the TE franchise tag it would seem that elite TEs are underrepresented. If you were ranking pass catchers, WR and TE, where would Graham rank? Maybe I'm over valuing his worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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