I am the first to admit when I may be wrong (RT 1st Round)

[maryland-bills-fan]

Over the last 15 years this team has used all those early first round picks on RB's, DB's, WR's, DT's, DE's and yet couldn't even field a freaking team with a winning record during all that time. How much did all those defensive players or supposed playmakers help the team win?

 

DE Erik Flowers 26, CB Nate Clements 21, OT Mike Williams 4, RB Willis McGahee 23, WR Lee Evans 13, QB JP Losman 22, DB Donte Whitner 8, DT John McCargo 26, RB Marshawn Lynch 12 , DB Leodis McKelvin 11, DE Aaron Maybin 11, C Eric Wood 28, RB CJ Spiller, 9 DT Marcell Dareus, 3, DB Stephon Gilmore, 10. QB EJ Manuel 16

 

2 DE's both busts

4 DB's all decent, nothing great

3 RB's all decent, one pro bowler for the Bills

2 DT's one bust, the other decent

2 QB's one bust, the other only played in 10 games

1 OT bust

1 OG / C stud

1 WR decent

 

How many pro bowl players drafted with the first pick in all that time Spiller in 2012, and Dareus in 2013. Has either player ever taken over a game, and won it by himself? How many winning teams fielded? How many playoffs games?

 

While everyone clamoring for a *playmaker* in this draft, and yet they don't care that EJ will be running for his life again this year if that O line isn't upgraded. 108 hits, 48 sacks last year is unacceptable

 

 

The late GM John Butler thought enough of the O line to draft OG Ruben Brown with the 14th pick in the first round on him. Brown played 13 years in the NFL, and made the pro bowl 9 times. So, don't tell me that any O linemen drafted in the first round is wasted. The 64-65 AFL Championship Buffalo Bills had a pro bowler at every position on that O line. Every position on that O line is as equally important as every position on the defensive line.

....and so you want to keep the streak going and draft a RIGHT OT at #9. I understand.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Over the last 15 years this team has used all those early first round picks on RB's, DB's, WR's, DT's, DE's and yet couldn't even field a freaking team with a winning record during all that time. How much did all those defensive players or supposed playmakers help the team win?

 

DE Erik Flowers 26, CB Nate Clements 21, OT Mike Williams 4, RB Willis McGahee 23, WR Lee Evans 13, QB JP Losman 22, DB Donte Whitner 8, DT John McCargo 26, RB Marshawn Lynch 12 , DB Leodis McKelvin 11, DE Aaron Maybin 11, C Eric Wood 28, RB CJ Spiller, 9 DT Marcell Dareus, 3, DB Stephon Gilmore, 10. QB EJ Manuel 16

 

2 DE's both busts

4 DB's all decent, nothing great

3 RB's all decent, one pro bowler for the Bills

2 DT's one bust, the other decent

2 QB's one bust, the other only played in 10 games

1 OT bust

1 OG / C stud

1 WR decent

 

How many pro bowl players drafted with the first pick in all that time Spiller in 2012, and Dareus in 2013. Has either player ever taken over a game, and won it by himself? How many winning teams fielded? How many playoffs games?

 

While everyone clamoring for a *playmaker* in this draft, and yet they don't care that EJ will be running for his life again this year if that O line isn't upgraded. 108 hits, 48 sacks last year is unacceptable

 

 

The late GM John Butler thought enough of the O line to draft OG Ruben Brown with the 14th pick in the first round on him. Brown played 13 years in the NFL, and made the pro bowl 9 times. So, don't tell me that any O linemen drafted in the first round is wasted. The 64-65 AFL Championship Buffalo Bills had a pro bowler at every position on that O line. Every position on that O line is as equally important as every position on the defensive line.

Nice post. Well thought out. To the people who make it blatantly clear they thinking putting a pylon at RT is the way to go: GET !@#$ING REAL!

[Trader]

On, "Path to the Draft", yesterday Baldinger predicted all three top Tackles off the board by pick 9. None of the top guys in the second round either because as many as 7 go in the first round. The Bills need to know the status of Harrison before the draft because they may need to burn a draft choice to move up in the first round or acquire a later first (either by trade up or down) to get any Tackle who is capable of starting right away at all.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

DE Erik Flowers 26, CB Nate Clements 21, OT Mike Williams 4, RB Willis McGahee 23, WR Lee Evans 13, QB JP Losman 22, DB Donte Whitner 8, DT John McCargo 26, RB Marshawn Lynch 12 , DB Leodis McKelvin 11, DE Aaron Maybin 11, C Eric Wood 28, RB CJ Spiller, 9 DT Marcell Dareus, 3, DB Stephon Gilmore, 10. QB EJ Manuel 16

 

2 DE's both busts

4 DB's all decent, nothing great

3 RB's all decent, one pro bowler for the Bills

2 DT's one bust, the other decent

2 QB's one bust, the other only played in 10 games

1 OT bust

1 OG / C stud

1 WR decent

 

All 3 RBs went to the Pro Bowl as Bills. If we are going to classify a guy (Wood) that never went to a Pro Bowl and graded out slightly below average last year as a stud I think that Nate Clements should be upgraded to stud territory. Wood has been solid but by no means a stud.

 

In general I agree with you that their 1st round picks haven't been great but as we have talked about how can you hold that against Whaley & co? It is not the same people scouting or making the decisions. Why not just go back to the Walt Patulski pick because it is exactly as relevant as Flowers, Mike Williams, McCargo, etc...

Edited April 22, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[thewildrabbit]

Nice post. Well thought out. To the people who make it blatantly clear they thinking putting a pylon at RT is the way to go: GET !@#$ING REAL!

Thanks, glad to see someone else feels the way I do.

 

You can't really fault the way the fans here think, simply because every regime since the Jim Kelly days have thought the same way. New coaches look at the draft like its Christmas time. Its like a little kid walking up on their birthday, as they want cool, flashy toys to play when they open their presents. Rather then utilitarian things like snow boots, or a new coat, and no matter how much they need them they just can't get excited over those things.

 

Same with the big uglies, as its tough to get excited about a draft when you go OT-OG with the first two picks. But ya know what, those picks would make more then a few super excited about the up coming season. Guys like me, EJ, Spiller, FredEx, and perhaps even Nate Hackett because now he could start running the ball somewhere besides up the middle.

[thebandit27]

 

Nice post. Well thought out. To the people who make it blatantly clear they thinking putting a pylon at RT is the way to go: GET !@#$ING REAL!

 

Nobody has ever said that. I've seen a great many folks say that there's no reason to have a "OL or bust" mentality though...which if you look at the way the most successful teams operate, makes sense.

 

 

[thewildrabbit]

All 3 RBs went to the Pro Bowl as Bills. If we are going to classify a guy (Wood) that never went to a Pro Bowl and graded out slightly below average last year as a stud I think that Nate Clements should be upgraded to stud territory. Wood has been solid but by no means a stud.

 

In general I agree with you that her 1st round picks haven't been great but as we have talked about how can you hold that against Whaley & co? It is not the same people scouting or making the decisions. Why not just go back to the Walt Patulski pick because it is exactly as relevant as Flowers, Mike Williams, McCargo, etc...

I'd say when the team can run up the middle behind the center 70% of the time, and each of the rest of the line doesn't even get 10% production each... I'd say that player is a stud in my book. Albeit, an overlooked stud as the guy would make the pro bowl on a winning team IMO. The #2 rushing team in the league, and four of the line graded poorly at run blocking.

 

I notice you didn't mention John Butler drafting an OG in first half of the first round at #14, and it paid off big time. 13 years in the league, 9 pro bowls. This generally happens when you know what you are doing as a GM, and can properly evaluate players at all positions. Have the Bills found another Butler, Polian, AJ Smith, in Doug Whaley?

 

I look at Whaley and give the guy a very good grade of "B" for upgrading the defense in the draft, and in free agency last year, or was that Nix? Anyway, I give whomever the very poor grade of "Z" for OG Colin Brown, Sam Young, and Doug Legursky. Bringing in players from other teams dumpsters is unconscionable to me, and with three rookie QB's no less. I have the suspicion that it was Whaley because of this years Chris Williams signing.

 

 

Like I've said many times. No worries, as this team isn't going to waste the #9 on an O linemen this draft. Hopefully the new regime that comes with new ownership will think differently...hopefully.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

I wouldn't take Lewan at 9. If you have one of the other two available, I would do it. Trading down made sense last year, as EJ was not rated high enough to take him where we were. Only if the two tackles are gone, then go with a skill player. don't forget we still need a pass rusher opposite williams given we're moving back again to a 4-3.

 

These are the best ranked DE. Who do you think we should pick given Clowney will be gone.

1 *Jadeveon Clowney DE 1 South Carolina Jr 6-5 266 1 23 Dee Ford DE 2 Auburn rSr 6-2 252 1 35 *Kony Ealy DE 3 Missouri rJr 6-4 273 1-2 43 *Demarcus Lawrence DE 4 Boise State rJr 6-3 251 2 49 *Scott Crichton DE 5 Oregon State rJr 6-3 273 2 55 Kareem Martin DE 6 North Carolina Sr 6-6 272 2 71 Trent Murphy DE 7 Stanford rSr 6-5 250 2-3

I think the only player at DE that makes sense at 9 is Anthony Barr. He has the dreaded "potential" to be a dominant DE but watching him play a little he doesn't understand leverage in the run game which would be a problem for us given the last couple years.

 

Edited to add: I think Barr would be a good fit in Pettine's defense.

 

I wouldn't mind Aaron Donald because I would like to see more tackles for loss out of our DL, but I don't think he will play against NFL OT's well because of his size. I like him much better against the interior OL and as such have trouble findind a roster spot for him with Dareus on the team. Now without Dareus...

Edited April 22, 2014 by 4BillsintheBurgh

[Kirby Jackson]

I'd say when the team can run up the middle behind the center 70% of the time, and each of the rest of the line doesn't even get 10% production each... I'd say that player is a stud in my book. Albeit, an overlooked stud as the guy would make the pro bowl on a winning team IMO. The #2 rushing team in the league, and four of the line graded poorly at run blocking.

 

I notice you didn't mention John Butler drafting an OG in first half of the first round at #14, and it paid off big time. 13 years in the league, 9 pro bowls. This generally happens when you know what you are doing as a GM, and can properly evaluate players at all positions. Have the Bills found another Butler, Polian, AJ Smith, in Doug Whaley?

 

I look at Whaley and give the guy a very good grade of "B" for upgrading the defense in the draft, and in free agency last year, or was that Nix? Anyway, I give whomever the very poor grade of "Z" for OG Colin Brown, Sam Young, and Doug Legursky. Bringing in players from other teams dumpsters is unconscionable to me, and with three rookie QB's no less. I have the suspicion that it was Whaley because of this years Chris Williams signing.

 

 

Like I've said many times. No worries, as this team isn't going to waste the #9 on an O linemen this draft. Hopefully the new regime that comes with new ownership will think differently...hopefully.

I don't disagree with most of this. I think that Wood is the Bills 2nd best OL and a pretty good player. Ruben Brown was a very good football player, maybe not 9 Pro Bowls good, but good nonetheless. He was also one of my favorite players.

 

In terms of the OL, I still think that they need 2 starters (RT & LG). I am not at all sold on Chris Williams. If Hairston is healthy (which I also am not confident in) than potentially they can wait to the mid rounds. They need a versatile interior lineman and at least a swing tackle (if Hairston is healthy). I would love something like Morgan Moses and Gabe Jackson but my guess is that we will see 1 OL picked in the 1st 3 rounds & 1 late. It will probably be a tackle in the 1st 3 and a guard later because they are certainly planning on starting Williams with that contract.

[Doc]

On, "Path to the Draft", yesterday Baldinger predicted all three top Tackles off the board by pick 9. None of the top guys in the second round either because as many as 7 go in the first round. The Bills need to know the status of Harrison before the draft because they may need to burn a draft choice to move up in the first round or acquire a later first (either by trade up or down) to get any Tackle who is capable of starting right away at all.

That all 3 top OT's may be gone before 9 is more a testament to the thought-to-be-strong-but-isn't-really QB class. There are at least 4 teams who need a QB who pick before 9.

[chris heff]

 

That all 3 top OT's may be gone before 9 is more a testament to the thought-to-be-strong-but-isn't-really QB class. There are at least 4 teams who need a QB who pick before 9.

If 3 OTs and 2 QBs go in the first 8 I believe Mack falls to nine.

[thewildrabbit]

That all 3 top OT's may be gone before 9 is more a testament to the thought-to-be-strong-but-isn't-really QB class. There are at least 4 teams who need a QB who pick before 9.

It could also go a long way into the thinking that teams want to find ways to better protect the most important position on the field.

 

I don't disagree with most of this. I think that Wood is the Bills 2nd best OL and a pretty good player. Ruben Brown was a very good football player, maybe not 9 Pro Bowls good, but good nonetheless. He was also one of my favorite players.

 

In terms of the OL, I still think that they need 2 starters (RT & LG). I am not at all sold on Chris Williams. If Hairston is healthy (which I also am not confident in) than potentially they can wait to the mid rounds. They need a versatile interior lineman and at least a swing tackle (if Hairston is healthy). I would love something like Morgan Moses and Gabe Jackson but my guess is that we will see 1 OL picked in the 1st 3 rounds & 1 late. It will probably be a tackle in the 1st 3 and a guard later because they are certainly planning on starting Williams with that contract.

Now If you would only think like Chip Kelly when he already had All Pro Jason Peters at LT, and still drafted an OT with the #4

 

The Chiefs selected an OT #1 overall

The Jags selected an OT at #2

The Cards selected an OG at #7 ...wow, an OG really?

The Titans selected an OG at #10...wow, an OG really?

The Chargers selected an RT at #11, and he played RT all year

The Giants selected a OT at #19

The Bears selected an OG at #20...made the pro bowl.

 

This years top three OT's are graded even better then last years top three OT's who went #1, #2, & #4. While seven O linemen went in the first round last year it looks like only four or five might make the first round this year. Probably why there might be more demand for those top linemen. I can see teams trading up just to grab one of those elite 3, or even 4, as I like Zack Martin in the top 15.

 

It is irrelevant on how many games a player played or what position they ended up playing, or even how they graded. What matters is that some teams made the effort to upgrade their offensive lines with some very valuable first round draft picks

Edited April 22, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[thebandit27]

It could also go a long way into the thinking that teams want to find ways to better protect the most important position on the field.

 

Now If you would only think like Chip Kelly when he already had All Pro Jason Peters at LT, and still drafted an OT with the #4

 

The Chiefs selected an OT #1 overall

The Jags selected an OT at #2

The Cards selected an OG at #7 ...wow, an OG really?

The Titans selected an OG at #10...wow, an OG really?

The Chargers selected an RT at #11, and he played RT all year

The Giants selected a OT at #19

The Bears selected an OG at #20...made the pro bowl.

 

This years top three OT's are graded even better then last years top three OT's who went #1, #2, & #4. While seven O linemen went in the first round last year it looks like only four or five might make the first round this year. Probably why there might be more demand for those top linemen. I can see teams trading up just to grab one of those elite 3, or even 4, as I like Zack Martin in the top 15.

 

As has been explained to you before:

 

Erik Fisher nearly got benched at RT in favor of Donald Stephenson

Luke Joeckel played in 5 games, at RT, before leaving for the season with an injury; in those games, Jax was 0-5 and allowed 20 sacks

Lane Johnson started at RT for a line that allowed 46 sacks, 2 fewer than Buffalo

Jonathan Cooper did not play a down

Chance Warmack was a huge disappointment for a Tennessee team that had a Pro Bowler at LT, an established RT, and Andy-the-Great at LG

Fluker played well

Pugh was horrible at RT for the Giants

Kyle Long played well

 

This doesn't support your point at all.

[Doc]

It could also go a long way into the thinking that teams want to find ways to better protect the most important position on the field.

Assuming they have a QB worth protecting.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

As has been explained to you before:

 

Erik Fisher nearly got benched at RT in favor of Donald Stephenson

Luke Joeckel played in 5 games, at RT, before leaving for the season with an injury; in those games, Jax was 0-5 and allowed 20 sacks

Lane Johnson started at RT for a line that allowed 46 sacks, 2 fewer than Buffalo

Jonathan Cooper did not play a down

Chance Warmack was a huge disappointment for a Tennessee team that had a Pro Bowler at LT, an established RT, and Andy-the-Great at LG

Fluker played well

Pugh was horrible at RT for the Giants

Kyle Long played well

 

This doesn't support your point at all.

To take it a step further Bakhtiari and Warford were arguably the 2 best linemen picked and they went in the 4th and 2nd respectively.

[thebandit27]

To take it a step further Bakhtiari and Warford were arguably the 2 best linemen picked and they went in the 4th and 2nd respectively.

 

True...although Warford was a 3rd round pick (65th overall)

[tennesseeboy]

I guess the smart money would go for Matthews for sure if he is there at nine. Otherwise Lewan or BPA Mike Evans might be the choice. Given that Evans actually is visiting us, and speculating it might very well be Evans and one of the pretty good "also ran" OT's in Round 2. Makes sense either way.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

True...although Warford was a 3rd round pick (65th overall)

I stand corrected. He is a stud.

[thebandit27]

I stand corrected. He is a stud.

 

Sure is...if you like him that much then I can see why you like Gabe Jackson--very similar player.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Sure is...if you like him that much then I can see why you like Gabe Jackson--very similar player.

Jackson is high on my draft man crush list. If you want to see domination go back and watch the 1st half of Miss. St. bowl game. He just annihilated guys.