Prison MBA's

[B-Large]

Hey guys I just wanted to let you know I may not be posting here for awhile. I've just been sentenced to 4 years in prison for robbing a liquor store. Hey, give me a break I was thirsty and I left my wallet at home. But here's the good news.

 

I'm getting my !@#$ing Master's Degree!!

 

watch out for your corn hole

 

 

 

That sounds racist and profiling? how fair would that be?

 

WHy not train them to be tradesmen. I am sure their are plenty of paint, plumbing, and masonery repair in prison and that would save a ton to us taxpayers!

 

Explain how identifying good candidates for the program would be racist and profiling...

[Chef Jim]

watch out for your corn hole

 

 

 

Explain how identifying good candidates for the program would be racist and profiling...

 

Because a vast majority of the candidates chosen would most likely be white D'uh.

[stuckinny]

watch out for your corn hole

 

 

 

Explain how identifying good candidates for the program would be racist and profiling...

 

How is it not? Don't we have affirmative action still here for regular college admissions? So who do you exclude form the program? Rapists, murderes? Is the college program just for Minimum Security inmates? If you start cherry picking canidates you will be excluding some, so if you are in prison and have are suposed to give up your rights, then everyone would have to be afforded the opportunity. I don't think you could deny someone like a college rejection letter!

 

I don't think you could have an admissions department I htink it you would have to take everyone that wanted to.

Edited February 22, 2014 by stuckinny

[John Adams]

How does giving free or virtually free college degrees to criminals accomplish this?

 

Your theory of "once a F%^& up, always a F%$^ up" isn't a solution. What's your idea?

[Chef Jim]

Your theory of "once a F%^& up, always a F%$^ up" isn't a solution. What's your idea?

 

You're a little late to the party Mr. Adams.

[Philly McButterpants]

Sorry, as one who is still paying off student loans for a Master's degree i thought would benefit me 2 jobs ago; and one who is currently paying state tuition rates for SUNY . . . I say that my taxes can be better spent on other programs rather than throwing money at the prison population.

 

Flame away . . .I don't care one whit about the current prisoner population in NYS. as far as I am concerned, they get far too much of my tax money to begin with . . .

[TakeYouToTasker]

Sorry, as one who is still paying off student loans for a Master's degree i thought would benefit me 2 jobs ago; and one who is currently paying state tuition rates for SUNY . . . I say that my taxes can be better spent on other programs rather than throwing money at the prison population.

 

Flame away . . .I don't care one whit about the current prisoner population in NYS. as far as I am concerned, they get far too much of my tax money to begin with . . .

This statement leads me to believe that one of two things is true:

 

1) You didn't read my argument in favor of these sorts of programs.

2) You don't understand the impact of ROI's on managing costs.

[John Adams]

Sorry, as one who is still paying off student loans for a Master's degree i thought would benefit me 2 jobs ago; and one who is currently paying state tuition rates for SUNY . . . I say that my taxes can be better spent on other programs rather than throwing money at the prison population.

 

Flame away . . .I don't care one whit about the current prisoner population in NYS. as far as I am concerned, they get far too much of my tax money to begin with . . .

 

^&*K the inmates is not a particularly bright economic decision although I'm sure it feels good to say.

[Jim in Anchorage]

MBA's? Start with teaching them the foreign concept of getting up and getting to work on time every day.

I am going to quote myself cause I feel this is important. What good is a MBA to person who never learned that in order to get and keep a job you must be there every day? On time? Many cons never grew up exposed to going to work day after day.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Jim in Anchorage

[Fingon]

You won't see a serious drop in incarceration rates and recidivism rates until the war on drugs ends. Why would any criminal work a 9-5 for $30 grand a year, when they can make the same amount in a month selling drugs? There is almost no other criminal act that makes that kind of cash. Sadly, there's too much money going into everyone's pockets for anything to change.

[Chef Jim]

You won't see a serious drop in incarceration rates and recidivism rates until the war on drugs ends. Why would any criminal work a 9-5 for $30 grand a year, when they can make the same amount in a month selling drugs? There is almost no other criminal act that makes that kind of cash. Sadly, there's too much money going into everyone's pockets for anything to change.

 

 

Good point. Crime pays way too well and you make your own hours.

[Azalin]

Why would any criminal work a 9-5 for $30 grand a year, when they can make the same amount in a month selling drugs?

 

because there are a lot of 30K+ per year jobs out there that don't include the risk of walking into an armed ambush or being arrested. I know that sounds smarmy, but there was a time many years ago when I had the opportunity to make that choice, and I opted for legal employment instead. my freedom and my life were, and still are, too valuable to me.

[OCinBuffalo]

I love how the only objections I see here toward moving away from our ridiculously ineffective punitive justice system and toward a PROVEN system of rehabilitative justice are from people who feel the need to denigrate others who have failed.

 

Recidivism in America is around 67%. Recidivism in the European Nordic states, who focus more on "soft justice" and rehab of their inmates (I know, I know, bunch a pussies) have brought recidivism down to around 1%

 

http://www.dropoutpr...nordic-prisons/

 

Now I know this could get complicated, so I'll go slow. If these programs could cut American recidivism by even a quarter, that means lower crime rates, which means less police officers, prison guards, bricks and bars bought on the taxpayers expense, which means more taxpayer money could go into other government programs, such as education, may even helping MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS ET BETTER EDUMACATED THEMSELVES!

Hey mister 29 posts? I'm just gonna tell you: there's about a 3.5% chance that you going at your best ludicrous speed, becomes too difficult for most of us to follow. IF is great. The problem is, as with Obamacare, and every other damn thing the left proposes:

 

You always sell the results. You never sell the how you're going to get the results. And, when somebody like me says "show your work", you tell me I don't care about/don't want the results.....largely because I'm a racist. Or something.

 

I'm just gonna tell you this too: that act died on this board right around the same time it was "racist" to oppose the, now obvious, idiocy that is Obamacare.

 

No. I want the results, same as you. Now, show your damn work. And, don't tell me you need $1 million for the MBAs, and then $2 million for the government employees to "manage" the "system" of "MBA distribution".

 

Again I ask: how is this equitable? Why does the criminal get treated better than the non-criminal? NOBODY in this thread has given a satisfactory anwer to this. Even this:

Trade training would make a hell of a lot more sense in most cases, since the ROI's ultimately better since criminals tend on average to have a lower level of education and literacy than non-criminals.

 

The best thing about this thread is watching people argue the two extreme positions: "everyone gets a free MBA" vs. "no one should have any education whatsoever." Hey, maybe there's some sort of middle ground or something, where the only people offered opportunities are those that can and will actually use it?

is crap. Where's the equity? Dammit! Why does the criminal who spends 7 years in prison come out with a freebie journeyman's card, while the non-criminal has to pay for all the classes, and give up the free time, since he also has pay for his own food/housing, and therefore must work during the day?

 

All I am asking for is a simple definition of the credits and debits for this transaction. I proposed the infinitely straightforward: you get a prison MBA/trade card, you owe service: for life. That deals with Tom's middle ground, and, has the added benefit of being equitable.

 

However DC_Tom, your...dare I say: idiotic...premise depends on government departing from its standardized "one-size-fits-all" methodology. WTF are you thinking? You think the government can actually establishing said middle ground, complete with measurement of utility/$ standards? Without Obamacaring the entire thing? (See? Obamacare, The Liberal Cleaver! I'm just facilitating your acceptance of that reality. )

 

I say F that. Put it out to bid for the E-colleges, let the government run the bid, and that's it. The E-College has no exposure. The guy does his work or he doesn't. Either way, they get paid a flat rate for what he does do, and if he quits, the don't lose anything. They run it, period.

 

Thus? I now modify my suggestion. Allow the prisoner's county to sponsor his trade/MBA/BS whatever. Have the state and Feds match whatever funds they put up, and then? Have the service owed to the county, until the county is paid off either in trade or cash + interest.

 

IF we want to reintegrate people into society, why the F not do it: in their society? Let the county be responsible for working the newly rehabilitated back into their own place in that community. After all, there's a really good chance that the county is where the crime was committed, and where the victim lives/lived.

 

There is literally no need for State or Federal oversight in this local matter, other than inspection, to guard against fraud and provide an appeals mechanism.

 

EDIT: And one last thing? Any prisoner who matriculates in any gender/identity study, or any other major whose only career path is "community organizer"/"useless government employee" gets a kick in the sack once per day.

Edited February 28, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[3rdnlng]

Hey mister 29 posts? I'm just gonna tell you: there's about a 3.5% chance that you going at your best ludicrous speed, becomes too difficult for most of us to follow. IF is great. The problem is, as with Obamacare, and every other damn thing the left proposes:

 

You always sell the results. You never sell the how you're going to get the results. And, when somebody like me says "show your work", you tell me I don't care about/don't want the results.....largely because I'm a racist. Or something.

 

I'm just gonna tell you this too: that act died on this board right around the same time it was "racist" to oppose the, now obvious, idiocy that is Obamacare.

 

No. I want the results, same as you. Now, show your damn work. And, don't tell me you need $1 million for the MBAs, and then $2 million for the government employees to "manage" the "system" of "MBA distribution".

 

Again I ask: how is this equitable? Why does the criminal get treated better than the non-criminal? NOBODY in this thread has given a satisfactory anwer to this. Even this:

 

is crap. Where's the equity? Dammit! Why does the criminal who spends 7 years in prison come out with a freebie journeyman's card, while the non-criminal has to pay for all the classes, and give up the free time, since he also has pay for his own food/housing, and therefore must work during the day?

 

All I am asking for is a simple definition of the credits and debits for this transaction. I proposed the infinitely straightforward: you get a prison MBA/trade card, you owe service: for life. That deals with Tom's middle ground, and, has the added benefit of being equitable.

 

However DC_Tom, your...dare I say: idiotic...premise depends on government departing from its standardized "one-size-fits-all" methodology. WTF are you thinking? You think the government can actually establishing said middle ground, complete with measurement of utility/$ standards? Without Obamacaring the entire thing? (See? Obamacare, The Liberal Cleaver! I'm just facilitating your acceptance of that reality. )

 

I say F that. Put it out to bid for the E-colleges, let the government run the bid, and that's it. The E-College has no exposure. The guy does his work or he doesn't. Either way, they get paid a flat rate for what he does do, and if he quits, the don't lose anything. They run it, period.

 

Thus? I now modify my suggestion. Allow the prisoner's county to sponsor his trade/MBA/BS whatever. Have the state and Feds match whatever funds they put up, and then? Have the service owed to the county, until the county is paid off either in trade or cash + interest.

 

IF we want to reintegrate people into society, why the F not do it: in their society? Let the county be responsible for working the newly rehabilitated back into their own place in that community. After all, there's a really good chance that the county is where the crime was committed, and where the victim lives/lived.

 

There is literally no need for State or Federal oversight in this local matter, other than inspection, to guard against fraud and provide an appeals mechanism.

 

EDIT: And one last thing? Any prisoner who matriculates in any gender/identity study, or any other major whose only career path is "community organizer"/"useless government employee" gets a kick in the sack once per day.

 

Uh, student loans?

[TakeYouToTasker]

I'll begin to worry about equity if individuals committing felonies to obtain career training becomes an epidemic. Until that point I'm only concerned about managing the costs of the prison system.

[OCinBuffalo]

I'll begin to worry about equity if individuals committing felonies to obtain career training becomes an epidemic. Until that point I'm only concerned about managing the costs of the prison system.

Yeah, I'd hadn't considered the "reverse opportunity cost" aspect I suppose.

 

However, it's a concerning message that we are sending to a smart kid from the inner city = might as well roll the dice. Deal drugs, because, the very worst thing that will happen to you...because you are smart(sorry to say it, but, the dumb kids wind up dead. Most smart people don't deal drugs, but, if they did, they wouldn't wind up dead either)? You'll wind up with a state sponsored BS/MBA. A smart kid, who is also from the inner city understands: odds, and, what a hedge is.

 

In fact, the smart inner city kid deals drugs, makes $, moves it elsewhere, and keeps doing it until things get bad. If things don't bad, he keeps doing it. If things get bad/he wants to get out? He lets himself get arrested, turns state's evidence, does his reduced time, gets his BS in Business while doing his reduced sentence, and uses his witness protection to absolve his criminal record.

 

But, yeah, I get that there's maybe 1 guy who will do this per year.

[TakeYouToTasker]

The smart kid from the inner city already gets his MBA paid for, and doesn't have to go to jail to do it. Same outcome with less ass-rape. Sounds more appealing to me.

[OCinBuffalo]

The smart kid from the inner city already gets his MBA paid for, and doesn't have to go to jail to do it. Same outcome with less ass-rape. Sounds more appealing to me.

Ah, but, don't forget about the 22 year old retardedness. Fun, but still, retarded. And the danger is a +, in every way, rather than a -. Again, for the smart kids.

 

And, what if the smart kid from the inner city is white?

 

If you're telling me that I can roll the dice? And, maybe I end up with $300k in the bank, before I get my free MBA? It's like a wheel of fortune, with only a few slots that are: dead/raped in prison, etc.

 

Here's a question: as a libertarian, would you have any problem with my indentured servant plan? Especially if it was run at the county level?

 

 

EDIT: You know what else is fun? Having a conversation with a fellow, real, risk-taker like yourself.

Edited March 1, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[TakeYouToTasker]

I agree.