NoSaint Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 He doesn't have to say anything. He could have said "no comment", but instead chose to say that "he always said this is where he wanted to be". You're also conveniently ignoring his contract, which is a huge reason he won't be traded any time soon. No team is going to sign up for $7.5m, $10.5m, and $11.0m contract over the next 3 years for a 32 YO wide-out that's clearly not as good as what he was when he signed the contract 3 years ago. His best bet is doing exactly what he's doing. So all this idle speculation is really just a waste of time. He's not going anywhere; the front office is (smartly) standing pat with Johnson, Goodwin & Woods as starters. I'm done with this horrendous thread. and arent those numbers just base salary, not bonuses? i think your overstating the importance of the comment today though. were past the trade deadline, unless he was out of his mind he was going to say that he wanted to be there. could be honest, could simply be that hes not an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 He reminds me of SJ13. A lot of talent and little respect. I'd give a 4th Wow. Your WR analysis is suspect at best. No disrespect, you seem like a nice guy. But after your whole "Goodwin and Graham are the same and anyone who thinks Goodwin is distinctly better doesn't know anything about football" rant coupled with this comment- it's starting to make me wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 When is the last time Pittsburgh traded for an expensive, aging veteran? It ain't never, EVER gonna happen. It doesn't fit the plan especially after you just invested a 2nd and two 3rds in young, cheap WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Wow. Your WR analysis is suspect at best. No disrespect, you seem like a nice guy. But after your whole "Goodwin and Graham are the same and anyone who thinks Goodwin is distinctly better doesn't know anything about football" rant coupled with this comment- it's starting to make me wonder. maybe you didn't read enough of what I said. johnson, johnson and Bowe are three wr's that do not get the respect that others like Lloyd, Holmes, burress and others get yet turning out solid years. They don't all play alike but they remind me of each other. Over achieving playera that have been on traditionally under achieving teams that float under the radar. I don't think Andre, Stevie or Dwayne are toping anyone's top ten WR list yet they've played at that level for many seasons now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 maybe you didn't read enough of what I said. johnson, johnson and Bowe are three wr's that do not get the respect that others like Lloyd, Holmes, burress and others get yet turning out solid years. They don't all play alike but they remind me of each other. Over achieving playera that have been on traditionally under achieving teams that float under the radar. I don't think Andre, Stevie or Dwayne are toping anyone's top ten WR list yet they've played at that level for many seasons now i think andre quietly gets in there too. just not a ton of stories to write about him. he does and says all the right things. i think you see him sneak in behind larry fitz and megatron on a lot of peoples top 5 lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 They aren't trading him and he was just frustrated. As big of a beast as Johnson is, it's a mistake to trade a high pick for a 30+ yo old receiver who has a giant contract. Get a dominant TE and keep our receiving core. Agree 100%. Andre is terrific but he is a hamstring waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Agree 100%. Andre is terrific but he is a hamstring waiting to happen. as opposed to Stevie who never has groin or hamstring problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 i think andre quietly gets in there too. just not a ton of stories to write about him. he does and says all the right things. i think you see him sneak in behind larry fitz and megatron on a lot of peoples top 5 lists. Calvin Johnson. Larry Fitzgerald. Desean Jackson. Wes Welker. Those are the names everyone says is top 4 without a doubt. Then you have way too many to put in at 5th. Including those 3 in 6 more spots. Many could but how many would put all 3? Maybe one or two don't deserve it... its tougher then it seems from the start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Calvin Johnson. Larry Fitzgerald. Desean Jackson. Wes Welker. Those are the names everyone says is top 4 without a doubt. Then you have way too many to put in at 5th. Including those 3 in 6 more spots. Many could but how many would put all 3? Maybe one or two don't deserve it... its tougher then it seems from the start i feel like CJ and LF top any list, and you often see some ordering of johnson, green, julio rounding out the top 5. could just be that we have stumbled across different lists. Edited November 18, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 If we go 8-8 and pick 16th or lower, then trade our #1 for Fitzgerald. If they can't get Fitzgerald then focus on the tight end and offensive line via FA and the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 i feel like CJ and LF top any list, and you often see some ordering of johnson, green, julio rounding out the top 5. could just be that we have stumbled across different lists. I was talking the last 3 or 4 seasons as a whole, but even more to my point... Green and Julio are there, too. It's easy to look at NFL WR's and pick off a list of the elite if looking at the last 3 or 4 collective seasons: CJohnson, Fitzgerald, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Vincent Jackson, Wes Welker, Anqun Boldin, Torey Smith, Victor Cruz, Dez Bryant... It is very easy to forget how good WR's are fogotten: Jordy Nelson, Pierre Garcon, Dwayne Bowe, Steve Johnson, Andre Johnson... Would Jordy Nelson be #1 on 32 teams in the NFL? Probably not, but that does not take away from how good he is and the same can be said for many WR's in the history of the game. The Jordy Nelsons, Garcon's, AJohnsons the ones that have the biggest impact are the ones who can catch the ball and make key receptions anywhere on the field and that is what Andre Johnson does. The skillset of these players generally never had the elite speed and as they decline quickly in their latter career they become horribly average runners, though they retain the catching ability and other skills. Not having the break away speed destroyed what Lee Evans had left, it was an issue with Peerless Price, it's been the case with many WR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) I was talking the last 3 or 4 seasons as a whole, but even more to my point... Green and Julio are there, too. It's easy to look at NFL WR's and pick off a list of the elite if looking at the last 3 or 4 collective seasons: CJohnson, Fitzgerald, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Vincent Jackson, Wes Welker, Anqun Boldin, Torey Smith, Victor Cruz, Dez Bryant... It is very easy to forget how good WR's are fogotten: Jordy Nelson, Pierre Garcon, Dwayne Bowe, Steve Johnson, Andre Johnson... Would Jordy Nelson be #1 on 32 teams in the NFL? Probably not, but that does not take away from how good he is and the same can be said for many WR's in the history of the game. The Jordy Nelsons, Garcon's, AJohnsons the ones that have the biggest impact are the ones who can catch the ball and make key receptions anywhere on the field and that is what Andre Johnson does. The skillset of these players generally never had the elite speed and as they decline quickly in their latter career they become horribly average runners, though they retain the catching ability and other skills. Not having the break away speed destroyed what Lee Evans had left, it was an issue with Peerless Price, it's been the case with many WR's. before I'd say guys like TO and moss were there, or others but I think johnson has, albeit quietly stayed in the cut ahead of that log jam. Kind of the brees of Brady manning and brees before the log jam of qbs. Someone new and shiny might challenge him any given year, but generally he's always in that 3rd spot long term. Edited November 18, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) maybe you didn't read enough of what I said. johnson, johnson and Bowe are three wr's that do not get the respect that others like Lloyd, Holmes, burress and others get yet turning out solid years. They don't all play alike but they remind me of each other. Over achieving playera that have been on traditionally under achieving teams that float under the radar. I don't think Andre, Stevie or Dwayne are toping anyone's top ten WR list yet they've played at that level for many seasons now I think Stevie Johnson is ranked right where he should be- a top 20-25 WR in the NFL. I don't know anyone who thinks he's overrated or underrated. I think prior to Calvin Johnson taking the title, Andre Johnson was considered the consensus best WR in football for at least a two year stretch. I know for one, he was the first WR off the board in most fantasy drafts about 3-5 years ago. His trouble has always been that he gets injured too much and is often times hobbled. But I'm not sure that anyone would say that he doesn't get the respect he deserves. Again, he was seen as the best WR in football- which he was at one time. Edit: he was a two-time AP first team NFL all pro (2008 & 2009) so I'd say he got his due when he was at the top of his game. I know plenty. I think he is better then Bowe, for example, but all you ever hear is how good and amazing Bowe is. You hear about Marshall and Lloyd, santonio Holmes, many other guys. Andre johnson is the texans Eric moulds. He is among the best WRs on their teams and does things that stand out even with sub par qbs and in bad years. Here in buffalo we have sj13 who has had a string of good years now and gets a lot less respect then he should. He is better then his respect level, just like Johnson. If you doubt that, ask someone to name the top 5 WRs in the game today. Maybe even top 10. They'll forget about Johnson Also, dude, did you say that Andre Johnson doesn't get the respect that Brandon Lloyd does? Is this crayonz?? Edited November 18, 2013 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 If the Bills were 9-2 and the only big hole was a big play WR? Yeah On a 4-7 team? No thanks. Keep throwing to your young guys and see who might develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) He reminds me of SJ13. A lot of talent and little respect. I'd give a 4th Edit: I originally posted a breakdown of just how different Andre and Stevie are, and Stevie is no where near the class of WR that Andre is. Then I saw you already addressed it as in you mean he reminds you of him in terms of recognition. Well, I also disagree greatly with that. There has not been a WR ranking in years that had Andre lower than 3rd until maybe the last year or 2 as people felt his play might slip with age (which it hasn't, a lot like Wayne). In fact, most had him ranked 1 or 2 even with Calvin and Fitz in the league several years. He's been widely regarded as one of the 3 best WR's in all of the NFL for most of his career. He doesn't do a lot of endorsements, but that does't mean he isn't respected or regarded for his skill in the media, fans, players, etc. Stevie hasn't gotten that kind of recognition because he is not a top 10 WR in the NFL. Stevie makes his money in moments that dont matter. He has never taken over a game like Andre has many times. He has had many moments where he literally lost us the game at the end with a dropped pass. He frequently is non existent in games when the game still matters. He has never had a great statistical season. FYI 1000 yards in a season has not been considered a great season (for a #1 WR or #1RB) which is only a meager 62.5 yards per game since the early 90's. Stevie has never had a great season...he's had solid seasons, but nothing special. Andre has dominated and put up HUGE stats even on bad teams, some very bad teams. So not sure why you think Andre and SJ are similar in terms of respect...Andre gets a ton of it, is destined for the HOF at this point, and still widely considered one of the best WR's in football. SJ on the other hand has barely been relevant in his career outside of Buffalo because thats what his play has shown. When you are more known for big drops than big plays, guess what you won't get top 10 consideration. Think about it...How can you say Stevie has been better than the 10 guys on this list in no particular order: Calvin, Fitz, Andre, AJ, Wayne, Marshall, Welker, Thomas, Bryant, Jones. And there are more than these 10 that have been better than SJ too. I like SJ, but lets come back to reality to what he has done. He has earned his irrelevancy by being irrelevant when it matters. Fitz helped him pad stats in blow out losses to help him barely break 1000 yards those 3 seasons. He was the king of picking up 60 yards and a TD in a final drive with minutes left down by 3 scores or more when Fitz was here. When Stevie can become a game changer and a player who makes big plays...he will earn more respect. Right now he has never averaged more than 63 yards a game in his entire career...even on a team that threw a lot with Fitz and Gailey. As far as the trade. I say send them Stevie and a mid round pick like a 4th or 5th. If its just a pick, then I wouldn't give up more than a 3rd given his age and contract size since we have some young promising WR's already in Woods and Goodwin. Would rather spend the picks on OL help and a dynamic TE since we got promising young WR's. Edited November 19, 2013 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 .....Get a dominant TE and keep our receiving core. If our young WRs keep improving over the last 5 games, I think there is a very good chance that this could be the philosophy come next draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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