Kirby Jackson Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) I answered the question several times - for 2013 Chris Hogan was the better option, because despite his meager stats he contributed to the team, while the best that would have come out of Rogers would have been PS and potential for next year. As for the future, we have no idea of how next season is going to work out, and what the Bills are going to do. You also don't know if Rogers will self-destruct again. And if you have hire over 50 people, I'm sure it was a great working environment when you hired a guy with no experience and gave him far greater latitude for not performing than for the rest of the employees. I'm sure productivity went through the roof. I would say that the only game that he impacted was the NE game and that was with his poor ST play. So anyone that could have contributed one meaningful play would have been an upgrade. It's about talent. I have hired talented salespeople that were successful in other places that were difficult. I have passed on people that were genuinely good people that did not have what it took to be successful in that role. Culture and production are and were always the most important to me. As the leader, I am responsible for the culture part. Edited January 8, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It's about talent. I have hired talented salespeople that were successful in other places that were difficult. I have passed on people that were genuinely good people that did not have what it took to be successful in that role. Culture and production are and were always the most important to me. As the leader, I am responsible for the culture part. Salespeople are difficult by nature. Would you permanently hire a young salesperson who had a decent history but was fired from his last job for some shady sales tactics. You brought him in on a trial basis, and while you could see potential, he wasn't willing to prospect at all, but could do well if you handed him the leads. Would you take that risk? I'm not totally blaming the coaches, since I wasn't privy to all the information that they were. It very well could have appeared to be a hopeless scenario. It could also be that they truly did everything they could to get Rogers to buy in, and he still wouldn't. It could also be the case that it took those cuts and snubs to give Da'Rick a wake up call. Certainly plausible, even likely, considering it wasn't like the Bills were the only team to say, "No thanks." I guess I'm just lamenting "the one that got away." WRs are typically said to need some seasoning, so I'm questioning the coaches/FO for letting a guy that certainly has some talent (and "plenty of upside") go, when even if he turned out to be a bust, it wouldn't have negatively impacted the team, IMO. I'm worried that Marrone decided to make an example out of Rogers at the expense of a possible long/medium term payoff. He got his "quick win" by showing that he "means business," but to what end? He apparently had problems with Stevie all year and Ike Hilliard was fired. Apparently they didn't get the message. Read K-9's posts further up. It seems far-fetched that the staff did not devote time to get Rogers on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Certainly there are lost causes and players who can or will never "buy in." I think many here are saying, "Well, maybe he never will "buy in," but isn't worth Chris Hogan's roster spot to find out over the course of the year?" yet another way of making the argument thats very similar in sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Salespeople are difficult by nature. Would you permanently hire a young salesperson who had a decent history but was fired from his last job for some shady sales tactics. You brought him in on a trial basis, and while you could see potential, he wasn't willing to prospect at all, but could do well if you handed him the leads. Would you take that risk? That's a great question and the answer is it depends. If my team is clicking on all cylinders than probably not. I would not want to upset the chemistry of the group. If we were projecting to have a difficult time reaching our goals than I would take a shot. I never had a difficult time getting people to buy in. In some ways I would be betting on me as the leader. It really depends on the sales climate and my current staff. If I could achieve what I needed to achieve without that person than I wouldn't bother. If not, I would. You do ask a really good question and from where I am sitting the Bills are in need of help getting to their goals. If the Bills had a fragile locker room (which I do not think that they do) than maybe not. For example, that's not the kind of guy to add to that dumpster fire in Miami. Edited January 8, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) That's a great question and the answer is it depends. If my team is clicking on all cylinders than probably not. I would not want to upset the chemistry of the group. If we were projecting to have a difficult time reaching our goals than I would take a shot. I never had a difficult time getting people to buy in. In some ways I would be betting on me as the leader. It really depends on the sales climate and my current staff. If I could achieve what I needed to achieve without that person than I wouldn't bother. If not, I would. and if your weakest link was a high school drop out that was kind of awkward and lacking charisma and didnt hit goals - even if he showed up 5 minutes early every day.... i think i know your answer. Edited January 8, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 That's a great question and the answer is it depends. If my team is clicking on all cylinders than probably not. I would not want to upset the chemistry of the group. If we were projecting to have a difficult time reaching our goals than I would take a shot. I never had a difficult time getting people to buy in. In some ways I would be betting on me as the leader. It really depends on the sales climate and my current staff. If I could achieve what I needed to achieve without that person than I wouldn't bother. If not, I would. And that's exactly the decision that Marrone was facing. Rogers' physical gift is undeniable. But the big question was how do you allocate a precious roster spot to a kid who hadn't earned it, and how would it play in a locker room where you're trying to change the culture of losing and fostering accountability. That's why to me it was an easy decision in August, even in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) and if your weakest link was a high school drop out that was kind of awkward and lacking charisma and didnt hit goals - even if he showed up 5 minutes early every day.... i think i know your answer. Ha ha, yeah I wouldn't have bothered. The weakest sales guy that we had in my whole time as a sales director was seriously the nicest. We found another role for him because he was such a good guy but he just wasn't capable of the production that we needed. And that's exactly the decision that Marrone was facing. Rogers' physical gift is undeniable. But the big question was how do you allocate a precious roster spot to a kid who hadn't earned it, and how would it play in a locker room where you're trying to change the culture of losing and fostering accountability. That's why to me it was an easy decision in August, even in retrospect. Fair enough. We just differ on the position that the Bill are in. I think that the coach should be string enough to control the culture of the locker room. I actually feel as if tht would be a strength of Marrone's. He feels like a good leader to me. I look at it like being in the big blind in a poker game. You may not know how the hand that you have will play out but if you have a chance to see the next 3 cards without having to spend any more chips, you should see the flop. There is no reason to fold your hand without having a better sense for how it will end up. Edited January 8, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) how do you allocate a precious roster spot to a kid who hadn't earned it it baffles me to, but it seems like we accidentally did just THAT in a lot of peoples opinions in order to send a message. Edited January 8, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 You can say that about ANY player who ever gets cut. What exactly did TJ Graham do that Da'Rick did not? In either case, a smart coach will see a player for what he can develop into, and not what he is. Da'Rick has developed into a starting wide receiver for the - still alive in the playoffs - Indianapolis Colts thats oversimplifying it the opposite direction, even if i agree with you on the fact that we shouldve kept him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 50 pages for Rogers & his less than 200 yards receiving. 1 page for Nickell Robey & his 38 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 FF, 1 int, & 1 td (1 less than Rogers). That speaks to the mindset of some around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 50 pages for Rogers & his less than 200 yards receiving. 1 page for Nickell Robey & his 38 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 FF, 1 int, & 1 td (1 less than Rogers). That speaks to the mindset of some around here. This thread really isn't about Rogers. It's about differing opinions and philosophies on roster construction. Rogers happens to be the example but it just as easily could be about Mike Jasper or someone like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) 50 pages for Rogers & his less than 200 yards receiving. 1 page for Nickell Robey & his 38 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 FF, 1 int, & 1 td (1 less than Rogers). That speaks to the mindset of some around here. remember all the fun we had from playing justin rogers, the low ceiling vet, instead of him? Edited January 8, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Did we cut Nickell Robey? I'm in for a 50 page thread of anger if we cut him. It's the mentality people have. People love the negative. It's hilarious. EJ had way more big moments than Rogers, yet people want to replace him. Woods & Goodwin showed great flashes as Wrs. Rogers wasn't drafted because of his own doing & then cut by 2 teams. He only played because of a ton of wr injuries. But the Bills are idiots for not catering to this superior talent. This thread really isn't about Rogers. It's about differing opinions and philosophies on roster construction. Rogers happens to be the example but it just as easily could be about Mike Jasper or someone like that. It's a fair point. I liked the Rogers pick up. At the same time, I hate putting all the blame on the coaches. Too many people are enabled & think they are entitled. Rogers acted like he was a 1st pick & some fans are treated him like one. Fact is, if he had Chris Hogan's attitude, he'd be on the team. That's on him. remember all the fun we had from playing justin rogers, the low ceiling vet, instead of him? In fairness, Rogers played fairly well as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Fact is, if he had Chris Hogan's attitude, he'd be on the team. That's on him. and if we had the colts coaches, or marvin lewis, or.... he might be on ours still. its not like theres no wiggle room at all in that discussion. he shouldve done more, but that doesnt mean we couldnt do more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 and if we had the colts coaches, or marvin lewis, or.... he might be on ours still. its not like theres no wiggle room at all in that discussion. he shouldve done more, but that doesnt mean we couldnt do more. The Colts cut him and only brought him back after injuries. But seriously, I would be more inclined to agree with these takes if he was actually lightning up the league. All this for under 200 yards, where the majority came during garbage time during a blowout??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 In fairness, Rogers played fairly well as a rookie. yea, i was being a little bit of a pain on that one The Colts cut him and only brought him back after injuries. But seriously, I would be more inclined to agree with these takes if he was actually lightning up the league. All this for under 200 yards, where the majority came during garbage time during a blowout??? well, the colts cutting him was moving him back to the PS, not just booting him to the curb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 So if Reggie Wayne doesn't get IRed would this thread have come back to life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I am guilty of this for sure. I'm not. But I don't want just one good UDFA when we had 2 on our roster in August. I'm not gonna pat Marrone and co. on the head because they didn't do everything bad. Might as well say, "We won six games we must be doing something right." 1000th post, aw yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 This thread is like Anderson Silva's leg break. As much as I want to look away I just keep peeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 oh yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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