JDG Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Well now that everyone is convinced that Bill Belichick is now the second coming of Vince Lombardi (or is it that Vince Lombardi was the first coming of Bill Belichick, I forget), I thought that I would bring up two reminders: 1) 36 - 44 with one wildcard berth (1-1). That is Bill Belichick's record in five seasons with the Cleveland Browns. 2) 24 - 24, no playoff berths. That is Bill Belichick's record in his first three seasons in New England, if David Patten's unconscious head doesn't roll out of bounds in a road game at the 3-13 Buffalo Bills. So, after eight seasons, this guy with a career coaching record below .500 is suddenly the greatest Coach in NFL history, eh? Raise a hand those of you would be saying that if David Patten's unconscious head doesn't roll out of bounds - presuming of course that Belichick still had his job last season.... That's what I thought. So, one has to wonder, now that Gregg Williams has gone on to Washington and made silk purses out of sows ears.... could Gregg Williams be the third coming of Bill Belichick - and we (and Donahoe for that matter) just not give him enough of a chance? JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Williams probably learned a lot in Buffalo. By the end he was on a short leash and pretty much hung himself. I believe he will be a good headcoach when given the chance again. We may find out as early as next year as there are rumbling of two things. 1) minor rumor that Gibbs wasn't feeling well by the end of the year and may step down already. 2) Oakland seems to have him number 1 on their list if they cut ties with Turner, which is rumored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I think GW will eventually get another head coach job, but I'd still rather have Mularkey now rather than waiting for Williams to maybe, possibly turn the corner and be a good coach. After 3 years, Williams didn't show enough progress to warrant an extension. It's the same situation with our current QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonz Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Good lord.....These posts are getting silly quick... AND ITS STILL FOOTBALL SEASON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 if David Patten's unconscious head doesn't roll out of bounds in a road game at the 3-13 Buffalo Bills208169[/snapback] OMFG That may be the funniest thing I've ever read on this board, I'm ROFL And no, Greggo is NO Bill Belichick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 But it should also be noted that genius Bill turned Vinny into a star, and the players revolt is what said to have sunk him in Cleveland. If you remember they came off a playoff season in '94 and started strong in 95. But then the wheels totally fell off, and Browns moved to Balt next year. Coincidence? I think that if you look at the diff between GW & BB - other than the '95 abberration BB's Cleveland teams improved each season, something Gregg's team didn't. As a freshman, Mularkey demonstrated a better feel for the flow of the game than Gregg did over three. I never had a feeling that there was control of the sideline in GW's tenure. Thus, while there may be basis to make the comparison, GW's lack of progress from a very good DC to HC is what sunk him, and makes me doubt that he'll ever be a good HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Wade Phillips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Wade Phillips 208257[/snapback] Say waht you will about Wade, he took some half-a$$ed talent and managed to NEVER have a losing season as a Bills head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Well now that everyone is convinced that Bill Belichick is now the second coming of Vince Lombardi (or is it that Vince Lombardi was the first coming of Bill Belichick, I forget), I thought that I would bring up two reminders: 1) 36 - 44 with one wildcard berth (1-1). That is Bill Belichick's record in five seasons with the Cleveland Browns. 2) 24 - 24, no playoff berths. That is Bill Belichick's record in his first three seasons in New England, if David Patten's unconscious head doesn't roll out of bounds in a road game at the 3-13 Buffalo Bills. So, after eight seasons, this guy with a career coaching record below .500 is suddenly the greatest Coach in NFL history, eh? Raise a hand those of you would be saying that if David Patten's unconscious head doesn't roll out of bounds - presuming of course that Belichick still had his job last season.... That's what I thought. So, one has to wonder, now that Gregg Williams has gone on to Washington and made silk purses out of sows ears.... could Gregg Williams be the third coming of Bill Belichick - and we (and Donahoe for that matter) just not give him enough of a chance? JDG 208169[/snapback] i have always though williams could be good, and while i am happy we got rid of him when we did, i have no doubt he can still be good nfl head coach. bottom line is, people can learn from theri mistkes...and if greggg can learn from his (and hire some competent assistants) he can be successful in this league. and anyway, perhaps belichek will go back to being an idiot when weis and (quite possibly) crennel fly the coop? just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtGodel77 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 The difference between Belichick and Williams is that Belichick's failures in Cleveland were caused by bad personnel. The GW team didn't seem to take advantage of the best talents of their players. The other thing that killed Belichick was the move to Baltimore. The Browns lost every game after that move was announced, with the exception of their very last game in the Dawg Pound. Now, I know what you're thinking. With GW, the coaching effort was there, and the players didn't execute. That shows a lack of talent. Clearly, Travis Henry didn't have the pocket awareness to be a good QB, as he showed in the Miami game. Sam Gash was too big and too slow to make a good WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 The difference between Belichick and Williams is that Belichick's failures in Cleveland were caused by bad personnel. The GW team didn't seem to take advantage of the best talents of their players. The other thing that killed Belichick was the move to Baltimore. The Browns lost every game after that move was announced, with the exception of their very last game in the Dawg Pound. Now, I know what you're thinking. With GW, the coaching effort was there, and the players didn't execute. That shows a lack of talent. Clearly, Travis Henry didn't have the pocket awareness to be a good QB, as he showed in the Miami game. Sam Gash was too big and too slow to make a good WR. 208322[/snapback] BB has always been a pretty weirdbird and many geniuses are as they march to a different drummer than the rest of the world. Many problems with the Browns he seemed to be a victim of things not his doing, but also he deserves his fair share of the blame as well as many of the players gave up on him because he didn't earn their respect and loyalty as their leader. In addition to that he made a deal to go to the Jets and suddenly turned tale and opted out of it (probably they deserved it but this was no profile in good judgment initially on his part when he chose to do it). Even yb this NE gig where he has nade a number of genius moves, he built player to player cohesion among the NE team by turning everyone against him as a unit because of the way he misread and bollized negotiations with Lawyer Milloy. This led to a letdown where the lost to the Bills 31-0 but he managed them responding to a plethora of injuries by stepping up and becing a TEAM A pivotal point in his first star turn season when the Pats won the SB was actually courtesy of a Jets LB who by collapsing Bledsoe's lung forced BB to do something he was probably going to eventually have to do but the season would have been done of switching to 6th round pick and near rookie Brady. The simplification of the offense which he and Weis did because they had too proved to be a boon for their production. Quality folks take advantage of good luck when it comes their way, but no question a key to BB is not simply his genius but good old dumb luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCCEO Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 What the hell are you talking about David Patten's head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodnarb Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 What a sophomoric post. It's a silly argument that comes off as an unwillingness to admit to a cold, hard reality. First of all, your premise assumes that to be truly great, you must have started in greatness and continued onward. It assumes that humble beginnings are not possible. It assumes that progress and learning is not how achievement is ultimately made. The opposite is true. In a nutshell, yours is a poorly thought-out concept that if applied to other avenues of achievement, would negate all our heroes in the arts, literature, film, wartime, and technology. Belichick started out breaking down film with his dad at the age of 10. He was an assistant coach in many places before settling in as parcells' defensive coordinator, where he ALWAYS excelled. ALWAYS had a top not D. Schooled Marv Levy and the Bills in 1991 using the same principles that he beat Manning and the Colts Sunday. Over time, he has BECOME the best football mind in all of football. Great people BECOME great through learning and experience. Belichick is going to win another superbowl this year. Yet people like you will still deny that he's the greatest football mind of our time. He has overcome more *while achieving more* than a coach than ANY coach has in our time. It sucks to be a non-patriot in AFC East land, because he's not going anywhere and the AFC East will always going to be the hardest road to the playoffs as long as he's there. Get used to it. Gregg Williams? Please...don't debase your own intelligence with such dreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I have to agree that Belichick has a rightful place among the greatest coaches ever......not just those in the game today, but of all time. Gregg williams, in my opinion, has learned how to structure a defense to be consistently good. The key word there being "learned"........Belichick innovates, devises, etc......he doesnt' just apply principles that he was taught.....he actually creates them all on his own. He is the master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 A tall order indeed. More important...it is good to see you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 NO WAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMark Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Say waht you will about Wade, he took some half-a$$ed talent and managed to NEVER have a losing season as a Bills head coach. 208260[/snapback] Ok, but remember you asked...........Ronnie Jones, the headset, Joe Pendry, DF/RJ, the comment [no playoff chance yet we did], Mike Shephard, Carl Mauck.....thanks for the prompting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I wish the Dolphins would have hired GW as HC and given him a 10 year contract. This would guarantee that we would own their ass for 10 years. He may be a good DC but he sucks as a HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 But it should also be noted that genius Bill turned Vinny into a star, and the players revolt is what said to have sunk him in Cleveland. If you remember they came off a playoff season in '94 and started strong in 95. But then the wheels totally fell off, and Browns moved to Balt next year. Coincidence? 208255[/snapback] Of course not. It become public that they were moving to Baltimore DURING the previous season. They were a lame duck franchise from October 95 on. The year before that they made the 2nd round of the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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