CodeMonkey Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 He was pissed at Suggs, right? Because a QB's helmet should not come off on a kneel-down. I'd have to watch it again, but I didn't think Manuels knee was even down when he got hit at the time. Manuel should not have been jerking around. If they needed to kill more clock then hand it to a RB and take it out of the QBs hands. I'd have been mad as well if I was the Ravens HC. Hackett needs to be smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 The issue isn't that his helmet came off on a kneel down. It wasn't technically a kneel down, since he was obviously trying to stay up to eat extra clock. The issue is that the QBs helmet came off at all. Which indicates that the QB was hit in the head. Which is a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 The issue isn't that his helmet came off on a kneel down. It wasn't technically a kneel down, since he was obviously trying to stay up to eat extra clock. The issue is that the QBs helmet came off at all. Which indicates that the QB was hit in the head. Which is a penalty. I don't think it was that simple. I think it was a quarterback CLEARLY giving himself up (kneel or no-kneel), a wrap-up, followed by a body to body suplex, driving him into the ground. THAT'S a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChallengeHistory Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I don't think it was that simple. I think it was a quarterback CLEARLY giving himself up (kneel or no-kneel), a wrap-up, followed by a body to body suplex, driving him into the ground. THAT'S a penalty. Boger (ref) actually said its because his helmet came off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Boger (ref) actually said its because his helmet came off. Serious question: was his chinstrap fastened? Was it left unfastened...on purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Not sure why people keep saying Powell had a bad game. Outside of the 29-yarder, he kicked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 You may be a little young to remember Pisarcek of the Giants trying arun instead of a kneel down and defensive back HERM EDWARDS stole the ball on the handoff and ran for a winning touchdown for the Eagles. Everyone since has blasted the Giants (and Pisarcek) for not doing a kneel down. Darned if you do...darned if you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Serious question: was his chinstrap fastened? Was it left unfastened...on purpose? Marrone is a genius for including even this contingency in his master clock-killing plan!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) I don't think it was that simple. I think it was a quarterback CLEARLY giving himself up (kneel or no-kneel), a wrap-up, followed by a body to body suplex, driving him into the ground. THAT'S a penalty. If he wasn't yet kneeling, he was not giving himself up. You can't have it both ways. Kneel and start the playclock, or dawdle for time and take a legal hit. IN any case, the hit was obviously illegal, I am just of the opinion that Manuel was exposed to a normal, legal hit (which I would have been ok with.) Edited September 30, 2013 by Captain Caveman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChallengeHistory Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 If he wasn't yet kneeling, he was not giving himself up. You can't have it both ways. Kneel and start the playclock, or dawdle for time and take a legal hit. He was absolutely in the PROCESS of kneeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 He was absolutely in the PROCESS of kneeling. If the process of kneeling takes 5 seconds three plays in a row, your QB deserves a normal clean hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 It was the third kneel down. He had just done the same play twice before. The second down kneel down drew a bit of heat between the players. Watch the whole kneel down series, and there was no way the refs weren't throwing a flag on the third down kneel down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 It was the third kneel down. He had just done the same play twice before. The second down kneel down drew a bit of heat between the players. Watch the whole kneel down series, and there was no way the refs weren't throwing a flag on the third down kneel down. There is no heat if he's not stalling trying to run extra clock. Traditionally kneel downs are not contested, but they are not also drawn out for extra time. If they are, the opposing defense has every right to try and tackle the ball carrier before he kneels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 There is no heat if he's not stalling trying to run extra clock. Traditionally kneel downs are not contested, but they are not also drawn out for extra time. If they are, the opposing defense has every right to try and tackle the ball carrier before he kneels. And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 IMO, the flag happens because there was a penalty on that play, not what happens on the previous plays. The penalty happens because the Ravens lost their cool after watching the BIlls try to stall for time on the previous two plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRQ_BillsFan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Is it more risky than a botched long snap to the punter, a punt block, or a return? I don't have the stats but it's worth raising the question. The reason people are asking about it is because it was different than the norm. Perhaps the norm is wrong - but when someone does something different I see nothing wrong with questioning it. Hell, I see nothing wrong with questioning the norm for that matter. And I love the people in this thread who equate questioning with "complaining." I don't have a link or even remember the game, but am sure I have seen this philosophy before. Where the quarterback wastes additional time before taking a knee. I believe I have seen the Bills do it before as well as other teams. While not 100% positive I am sure I have seen it before and think Fitz did it in one game 3-4 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 You may be a little young to remember Pisarcek of the Giants trying arun instead of a kneel down and defensive back HERM EDWARDS stole the ball on the handoff and ran for a winning touchdown for the Eagles. Everyone since has blasted the Giants (and Pisarcek) for not doing a kneel down. Darned if you do...darned if you don't. not directed at you directly, but just because it happened once means no one should ever try to run in that situation again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChallengeHistory Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 If the process of kneeling takes 5 seconds three plays in a row, your QB deserves a normal clean hit. No. I mean he was literally in a squatting motion on his way down to the turf when he was hit. It's no different than hitting a QB while he's sliding. As soon as the sliding motion begins, it's over. You can't hit him just because he wasn't on the turf yet. His motion started and that means the play is over. The squatting motion of the kneel down had already begun when Suggs hit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 No. I mean he was literally in a squatting motion on his way down to the turf when he was hit. It's no different than hitting a QB while he's sliding. As soon as the sliding motion begins, it's over. You can't hit him just because he wasn't on the turf yet. His motion started and that means the play is over. The squatting motion of the kneel down had already begun when Suggs hit him. Well, not sure what else to say. I agree that the motion may have started, but I also think that if you exaggerate the kneel to last several extra seconds then you are fair game for a clean hit (again, I am not insinuating that this was a clean hit), especially when it happens three plays in a row. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChallengeHistory Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Well, not sure what else to say. I agree that the motion may have started, but I also think that if you exaggerate the kneel to last several extra seconds then you are fair game for a clean hit (again, I am not insinuating that this was a clean hit), especially when it happens three plays in a row. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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