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Demographic death spiral


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really? in the us, how bout changing capital gains taxes? stopping large campaign contributions that influence political decisions for the benefit of the wealthy? on a global level, admittedly it would require an unlikely major paradigm shift. but why wouldn't those actions in the us have an effect on income disparity?

 

Well that is different than the wage issue I was quoting...but I still doubt anything can be done.

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I think the only thing anyone can reliably judge from this discussion is that you're retarded.

well since that was my first comment in this discussion I think you're being a little harsh- you should wait for me to make a few more comments unless you are going for an air of prescience over discernment.
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well since that was my first comment in this discussion I think you're being a little harsh- you should wait for me to make a few more comments unless you are going for an air of prescience over discernment.

 

Or it just took that one comment.

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Or it just took that one comment.

yeah but you know why that was an important question- as the argument from the right side was why the !@#$ do you care about some one doing a lot better as long as you're doing somewhat better?

 

so one of the questions being raised is are people doing better and personally I think that should mean as compared to our parents since I don't think it's particularly relative to peoples mood that they compare their lot to people of bygone eras .

 

 

was just looking at this chart increase-in-after-tax-income-by-income-group.png?10ea97

 

 

I'd like to find a chart that went from 1973-2012 but this one isn't bad and hey look everyone is making gains - but that is only true if you believe that government inflation figures are actually reflective of reality- if you believe like me that inflation has been understated by 1-2% since the 1980s you get a different picture were the bottom 20% has actually lost ground and the next 40% have barely broken even.

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yeah but you know why that was an important question- as the argument from the right side was why the !@#$ do you care about some one doing a lot better as long as you're doing somewhat better?

 

so one of the questions being raised is are people doing better and personally I think that should mean as compared to our parents since I don't think it's particularly relative to peoples mood that they compare their lot to people of bygone eras .

 

 

was just looking at this chart increase-in-after-tax-income-by-income-group.png?10ea97

 

 

I'd like to find a chart that went from 1973-2012 but this one isn't bad and hey look everyone is making gains - but that is only true if you believe that government inflation figures are actually reflective of reality- if you believe like me that inflation has been understated by 1-2% since the 1980s you get a different picture were the bottom 20% has actually lost ground and the next 40% have barely broken even.

 

I think this might be an appropriate place for this:

 

I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.
  • On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor (29 November 1766).

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I think this might be an appropriate place for this:

nice BF quote but if true wouldn't all the places with brutal poverty in Africa, South America, Asia places that have had the poorest of the poor for generations, poor that received no help even when turned into living skeletons wouldn't all these people be rich by now and wouldn't all the Scandinavian countries with all their safety nets for generations have massive amounts of poor.
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nice BF quote but if true wouldn't all the places with brutal poverty in Africa, South America, Asia places that have had the poorest of the poor for generations, poor that received no help even when turned into living skeletons wouldn't all these people be rich by now and wouldn't all the Scandinavian countries with all their safety nets for generations have massive amounts of poor.

Not that he needed any, but you just gave Tom vindication & then some with this post.

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nice BF quote but if true wouldn't all the places with brutal poverty in Africa, South America, Asia places that have had the poorest of the poor for generations, poor that received no help even when turned into living skeletons wouldn't all these people be rich by now and wouldn't all the Scandinavian countries with all their safety nets for generations have massive amounts of poor.

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/158989-demographic-death-spiral/page__st__60

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i like to look at wealth disparity more as effort disparity. What would we find if we shadowed people daily (who end up on the bottom of the economic ladder) from early childhood into adulthood and compared what we saw there compared to people who get to the top of the economic ladder? I believe that more often than not we would see a huge disparity in effort and commitment which over days, weeks, months and years would go a long way toward explaining why some do better economically than others.

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i like to look at wealth disparity more as effort disparity. What would we find if we shadowed people daily (who end up on the bottom of the economic ladder) from early childhood into adulthood and compared what we saw there compared to people who get to the top of the economic ladder? I believe that more often than not we would see a huge disparity in effort and commitment which over days, weeks, months and years would go a long way toward explaining why some do better economically than others.

 

Indeed, some people prefer to own a Taco Bell and some people prefer to photograph themselves licking the taco shells while emptying the trash. And oddly enough, those licking the shells are still a cut above those who intentionally seek government assistance to pay their bills at every turn to the extent that they pass this legacy to their children.

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That ok Rob I think the Same of Tom and you and your ilk :)

This made me laugh to beat the devil. In all seriousness though, you can't fairly analogize the situation & opportunity of those living under warlords in subsaharan Africa to those living in a free civilized society.

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This made me laugh to beat the devil. In all seriousness though, you can't fairly analogize the situation & opportunity of those living under warlords in subsaharan Africa to those living in a free civilized society.

Well Rob if you are saying there are more factors to poverty than work ethic then I agree with you, even though that will reduce your social standing among your ilk.
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yeah but you know why that was an important question- as the argument from the right side was why the !@#$ do you care about some one doing a lot better as long as you're doing somewhat better?

 

so one of the questions being raised is are people doing better and personally I think that should mean as compared to our parents since I don't think it's particularly relative to peoples mood that they compare their lot to people of bygone eras .

 

 

was just looking at this chart increase-in-after-tax-income-by-income-group.png?10ea97

 

 

I'd like to find a chart that went from 1973-2012 but this one isn't bad and hey look everyone is making gains - but that is only true if you believe that government inflation figures are actually reflective of reality- if you believe like me that inflation has been understated by 1-2% since the 1980s you get a different picture were the bottom 20% has actually lost ground and the next 40% have barely broken even.

interesting data and salient to the later discussion in this thread (seems no one really cares much about political demographics which will likely shape policy for decades). the ben franklin quote doesn't apply because given your assumptions, only the top 60% did better. do we really want to consider the top 40% not poor? that would be admitting systemic defeat, wouldn't it. but what proof do you have that inflation is underreported? the argument rests on that premise.
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